- Joined
- May 26, 2001
First, I want to say a big Thank You to Richard, for letting us use his dyno for the day and also for letting us use his tools and resources for anything our guys needed. We Greatly Appreciate all of it and your hospitality. What an awesome shop.
Next, I'd like to say Thank You to Shane for putting on this event in the first place. I know I'll definitely be back next year for sure.
Also, Thank You to our 5 participants for dyno-ing their cars and not holding anything back. It was great to see the guys open up their turbo boxes. Sorta like a kid on Christmas morning type moment. Smiles all around.
.
.
.
The plan was to let each car owner make 3 dyno pulls and swap turbos. But we were not locked into just 3 pulls. This is on a conservative Mustang Dyno.
So without further delay, here are the 5 cars and their combos, and the results.
Up first was Rick Hunt with his white GNXray. His combination consisted of a .020 over rebuilt 109, ported iron heads with matching intake, 210/205 cam, stock upper plenum and throttle body, TE-44 turbo with HD actuator, Precision Stock Location IC, 60# injectors with 93 octane Turbo Tweak chip. Hot wired XP pump, adj fuel pressure regulator, good plug wires, stock headers and crossover pipe, 3" BGC downpipe into 2.5" cat back exhaust. 3" MAF pipe with cone K&N filter, Scanmaster & Powerlogger with WB O2 sensor. 200 tranmission with a Dayco 2400 stall converter. Stock rear end. Running on GNX wheels with regular radials. A very nice combination. For his turbo, I chose one of our Billet 6265 turbos with the air cooled dual ball bearing cartridge and a .63 A/R housing.
TE-44 pulls
1st pull = 318 hp @ 4875 rpm / 359.7 tq @ 4144 rpm. Boost 17psi, 18* WOT timing
2nd pull = 316.9 hp @ 5089 rpm / 364.7 tq @ 4132 rpm. Boost 16.7psi, 18* WOT timing.
3rd pull = 298.8 hp @ 4973 rpm / 331.3 tq @ 4189 rpm. Boost 14.5psi, same WOT timing.
Billet 6265 with ACBB pulls
1st pull = 308.2 hp @ 5249 rpm / 322.1 tq @ 4854 rpm. Boost 15.9psi, 18* WOT timing.
2nd pull = 319.8 hp @ 5447 rpm / 333.9 tq @ 4796 rpm. Boost 16.7psi, same timing.
3rd pull = 313.7 hp @ 5454 rpm / 327.8 tq @ 4902 rpm. Boost 16.2psi, same timing.
At this point, Jack Cotton mentioned to Harry about which wastegate actuator we were running? My reasoning was to run a standard spring actuator due to 93 octane fuel limitations and I did not want the boost to run away and hurt his motor on pump gas. Not thinking about the wg puck cracking open too soon and hurting hp and tq down low, but that is exactly what was happening. Harry noticed that the puck was starting to open at around 7psi, which was killing all his bottom end torque. Boost was just linear with rpm at that point. Thankfully, Rick had a heavy duty actuator from his TE-44 that he could bolt on. Which he did. Well, we ran out of time to re-dyno his car after the actuator swap, but we were able to make another pull, first thing Tuesday morning. We added a little more fuel and made the last pull. The results were favorable.
4th pull = 337 hp @ 5241 rpm / 348.1 tq @ 4759 rpm. 17.7psi and same timing.
So this gives him a hp difference of 19 hp at almost exactly the same boost level. (17psi vs 17.7psi) Very good start.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2nd up was Steve Thompson and his '67 Firebird. His combinaiton consisted of a RPE built TA block 274 CI motor, fully ported GN1-R heads, Champion intake, XFI with internal datalogger, Cast GT4276 journal bearing turbo. 160# injectors, Weldon 2015 pump, 4" downpipe, 3.5" exhaust, TH350 trans with brake, custom converter and custom air to air intercooler. Cal was doing the tuning.
Cast GT4276 journal bearing pulls
1st pull = 672.9 hp @ 6912 rpm / 552.5 tq @ 6473 rpm. 25 psi
2nd pull = 682.8 hp @ 7015 rpm / 510.9 tq @ 7015 rpm. 25 psi
3rd pull = 742.2 hp @ 6734 rpm / 579.5 tq @ 6594 rpm. 25.4 psi
Billet HP7675 ACBB pulls
1st pull = 772.8 hp @ 6690 rpm / 610.4 tq @ 6619 rpm. 24.5 psi
2nd pull = 815.1 hp @ 6813 rpm / 628.3 tq @ 6813 rpm. 27.7 psi
3rd pull = 832 hp @ 6861 rpm / 657.9 tq @ 6842 rpm. 28.3 psi
4th pull = 820.8 hp @ 6861 rpm / 628.8 tq @ 6836 rpm. 29.8 psi
So, this gives him a hp difference of 30.6 hp with almost 1 psi of boost. Which is awesome. Of course he made more power with only 3.8 psi more boost. 832 hp is a big number for sure.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Our 3rd player in the game was Tyler Shull and his GN. His combo consisted of a Cast 6765 dbb turbo with S cover and .63 A/R 3-bolt housing, .030 over 109 block, stock crank & rods, T&D roller rockers, Champion ported and polished iron heads and matching intake, , CAS V4 stock location intercooler, PTC 3200 converter with 200 trans, Red's double pumper kit, 60# injectors, Razor's alky injection kit, Turbotweak alky chip with PLX wideband O2 and Powerlogger. The turbo I chose for this car, was our Billet 6765 with air cooled ball bearing chra. So, the only thing that changed on this test was the compressor wheel and air cooled dual bb chra.
Cast 6765 dbb, S cover.
1st pull = 428.2 hp @ 5107 rpm / 457.2 tq @ 4816 rpm. Detonation. 22 psi.
2nd pull = 452.8 hp @ 5061 rpm / 474 tq @ 4970 rpm. 20.9 psi.
Billet 6765 air cooled bb, S cover.
1st pull = 429 hp @ 5110 rpm / 448.6 tq @ 4847 rpm. 20 psi.
2nd pull = 458.4 hp @ 5185 rpm / 480.3 tq @ 4930 rpm. 21.5 psi.
3rd pull = 482.6 hp @ 5229 rpm / 495.1 tq @ 4915 rpm. 23 psi.
So, he picked up 29.8 hp with only 2 psi more. Which shows the power potential of the Billet 67 wheel once the boost is turned up past 20psi. Nice gains. And he told me that the spool up difference on the street was incredible.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Our 4th contestant was Derek Godwin and his '86 T-Type. His combo was a Cast PT70 GTQ journal bearing turbo with a T4 .68 A/R housing. Built 109 block, 235 CI with Diamond pistons, block girdle, 218/212 hydraulic roller cam, Eagle crank, Oliver rods, ARP fasteners throughout. PTE Oil filtration kit, ported and polished iron heads with matching intake, roller rockers, 70mm throttle body, 70mm upper plenum, Cotton's Performance front mount intercooler, Turbosmart external wastegate. XFI EMS system, individual EGT setup, volt booster, 83# injectors through stock fuel lines, alky injection kit, dual XP in tank pumps. 3.5" downpipe into dual 3" cat back exhaust system. PTC converter in a TH400 trans with brake. 3.42 gears with spool. For Derek's combo, I chose one of our Billet 71 HPQ turbos with our ACBB cartridge. And because of this ACBB cartridge, I wanted to see the spool up difference between the T4 .81 A/R housing and the T4 .68. I figured it should not be that difficult to spool it and he would have very good flow capability with the .81 housing. Jack was tuning.
Cast PT70 GTQ T4 .68 pulls
1st pull = 449.4 hp @ 5327 rpm / 492.7 tq @ 4782 rpm. 21 psi.
2nd pull = 493.6 hp @ 5147 rpm / 518.2 tq @ 4902 rpm. 24 psi.
3rd pull = 536.3 hp @ 5261 rpm / 545.9 tq @ 5062 rpm. 28 psi.
Billet 71 HPQ ACBB T4 .81 pulls
1st pull = 505 hp @ 5196 rpm / 514.2 tq @ 5011 rpm. 24.5 psi.
2nd pull = 558.6 hp @ 5390 rpm / 553.6 tq @ 5185 rpm. 30 psi.
So he made 22.3 more hp with only 2 psi more. And spool up was very nice.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Our 5th contestant was Steve Sullivan and his TSM class legal car. His combination consisted of a Cast PT70 HPQ journal bearing and TSM legal turbo. 240 CI 109 block TSM motor. Billet crank, Champion GN-1 heads fully ported with matching Champion stock style intake. 218/218 billet roller cam, Cotton's Performance front mount intercooler, Fast Bank to Bank system, ATI torque converter and TA Performance headers. Car has run a 9.54 @ 142 at 3600#. Jack Cotton was tuning.
Cast PT70 HPQ pulls
1st and only pull = 608.2 hp @ 6170 rpm / 540.1 tq @ 5699 rpm. 27.4 psi.
Billet 71 HPQ with ACBB chra pulls
1st pull = 605.4 hp @ 6259 rpm / 508 tq @ 6258 rpm. 27 psi.
2nd pull = 612.5 hp @ 6252 rpm / 515.1 tq @ 6239 rpm. 26 psi.
3rd pull = 608.1 hp @ 6095 rpm / 609.8 tq @ 5449 rpm. 26 psi.
So, on his 2nd pull, he was able to make 4.3 hp more with 1.4 psi less boost. Which is very good all things considered. I'm sure if we would have had more time, they could have tuned more into the combo.
I took video of each and every dyno pull. I need to get them edited up and posted on You Tube, which might take me some time as my skillz are a little rusty. I also have some pictures I took that I need to get on my PB account that I will post up as well. Which should not take very long at all.
When the dust settled, all 5 of the contestants were happy with the results. And all of them happily purchased their turbos. One thing that these numbers do not show, is the actual difference in spool up characteristics between the two turbos. The dyno did not have that capability, but I'm sure the guys could review their data logs and tell us some very valuable info. Temps hovered in the 50*- 57* range on both days and when that fan kicked on, it got cold in the dyno room. No casualties were experienced, except of course for tire wear, he he he.
So there you have it everyone. I was pleasantly surprised with the results. Too see the smiles on everyone's faces was priceless. Again, I'd like to Thank Richard for his generous hospitality and for letting these guys use his tools and resources whenever they needed anything. And I do mean anything. That was way more than we ever expected. Also, I'd like to thank you 5 guys again, for participating in this challenge. I thought it went very smoothly.
I would also like to thank Paul, for all his hard work and with running the dyno. You did great and it was very nice working with you.
And Gene, thank you for all your help and wrenching. You really helped alot of us out and we all greatly appreciate it.
Also, Bob Bailey with his tuning help and first hand Inventor/Creator help with our guys who were using his Power Logger. I can't tell you how Awesome that is, to have the person who invented the Power Logger there to help you with your tune and your datalogs. You can't get any better than that.
And last, but certainly not least, I'd like to personally thank Clint for all his hard work and organizational skills. I would not have been able to make this happen without your help and guidance. You did an Excellent job. And I know you're still hard at it, at the track.
I thoroughly enjoyed my time at the event and can't wait to go back next year. Thanks again to all of you who made this happen and who helped me. Richard, Clint, Shane, Paul, Gene, Cal, Otto, Jack, Harry, Bob
Patrick Rubio
Next, I'd like to say Thank You to Shane for putting on this event in the first place. I know I'll definitely be back next year for sure.
Also, Thank You to our 5 participants for dyno-ing their cars and not holding anything back. It was great to see the guys open up their turbo boxes. Sorta like a kid on Christmas morning type moment. Smiles all around.
.
.
.
The plan was to let each car owner make 3 dyno pulls and swap turbos. But we were not locked into just 3 pulls. This is on a conservative Mustang Dyno.
So without further delay, here are the 5 cars and their combos, and the results.
Up first was Rick Hunt with his white GNXray. His combination consisted of a .020 over rebuilt 109, ported iron heads with matching intake, 210/205 cam, stock upper plenum and throttle body, TE-44 turbo with HD actuator, Precision Stock Location IC, 60# injectors with 93 octane Turbo Tweak chip. Hot wired XP pump, adj fuel pressure regulator, good plug wires, stock headers and crossover pipe, 3" BGC downpipe into 2.5" cat back exhaust. 3" MAF pipe with cone K&N filter, Scanmaster & Powerlogger with WB O2 sensor. 200 tranmission with a Dayco 2400 stall converter. Stock rear end. Running on GNX wheels with regular radials. A very nice combination. For his turbo, I chose one of our Billet 6265 turbos with the air cooled dual ball bearing cartridge and a .63 A/R housing.
TE-44 pulls
1st pull = 318 hp @ 4875 rpm / 359.7 tq @ 4144 rpm. Boost 17psi, 18* WOT timing
2nd pull = 316.9 hp @ 5089 rpm / 364.7 tq @ 4132 rpm. Boost 16.7psi, 18* WOT timing.
3rd pull = 298.8 hp @ 4973 rpm / 331.3 tq @ 4189 rpm. Boost 14.5psi, same WOT timing.
Billet 6265 with ACBB pulls
1st pull = 308.2 hp @ 5249 rpm / 322.1 tq @ 4854 rpm. Boost 15.9psi, 18* WOT timing.
2nd pull = 319.8 hp @ 5447 rpm / 333.9 tq @ 4796 rpm. Boost 16.7psi, same timing.
3rd pull = 313.7 hp @ 5454 rpm / 327.8 tq @ 4902 rpm. Boost 16.2psi, same timing.
At this point, Jack Cotton mentioned to Harry about which wastegate actuator we were running? My reasoning was to run a standard spring actuator due to 93 octane fuel limitations and I did not want the boost to run away and hurt his motor on pump gas. Not thinking about the wg puck cracking open too soon and hurting hp and tq down low, but that is exactly what was happening. Harry noticed that the puck was starting to open at around 7psi, which was killing all his bottom end torque. Boost was just linear with rpm at that point. Thankfully, Rick had a heavy duty actuator from his TE-44 that he could bolt on. Which he did. Well, we ran out of time to re-dyno his car after the actuator swap, but we were able to make another pull, first thing Tuesday morning. We added a little more fuel and made the last pull. The results were favorable.
4th pull = 337 hp @ 5241 rpm / 348.1 tq @ 4759 rpm. 17.7psi and same timing.
So this gives him a hp difference of 19 hp at almost exactly the same boost level. (17psi vs 17.7psi) Very good start.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2nd up was Steve Thompson and his '67 Firebird. His combinaiton consisted of a RPE built TA block 274 CI motor, fully ported GN1-R heads, Champion intake, XFI with internal datalogger, Cast GT4276 journal bearing turbo. 160# injectors, Weldon 2015 pump, 4" downpipe, 3.5" exhaust, TH350 trans with brake, custom converter and custom air to air intercooler. Cal was doing the tuning.
Cast GT4276 journal bearing pulls
1st pull = 672.9 hp @ 6912 rpm / 552.5 tq @ 6473 rpm. 25 psi
2nd pull = 682.8 hp @ 7015 rpm / 510.9 tq @ 7015 rpm. 25 psi
3rd pull = 742.2 hp @ 6734 rpm / 579.5 tq @ 6594 rpm. 25.4 psi
Billet HP7675 ACBB pulls
1st pull = 772.8 hp @ 6690 rpm / 610.4 tq @ 6619 rpm. 24.5 psi
2nd pull = 815.1 hp @ 6813 rpm / 628.3 tq @ 6813 rpm. 27.7 psi
3rd pull = 832 hp @ 6861 rpm / 657.9 tq @ 6842 rpm. 28.3 psi
4th pull = 820.8 hp @ 6861 rpm / 628.8 tq @ 6836 rpm. 29.8 psi
So, this gives him a hp difference of 30.6 hp with almost 1 psi of boost. Which is awesome. Of course he made more power with only 3.8 psi more boost. 832 hp is a big number for sure.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Our 3rd player in the game was Tyler Shull and his GN. His combo consisted of a Cast 6765 dbb turbo with S cover and .63 A/R 3-bolt housing, .030 over 109 block, stock crank & rods, T&D roller rockers, Champion ported and polished iron heads and matching intake, , CAS V4 stock location intercooler, PTC 3200 converter with 200 trans, Red's double pumper kit, 60# injectors, Razor's alky injection kit, Turbotweak alky chip with PLX wideband O2 and Powerlogger. The turbo I chose for this car, was our Billet 6765 with air cooled ball bearing chra. So, the only thing that changed on this test was the compressor wheel and air cooled dual bb chra.
Cast 6765 dbb, S cover.
1st pull = 428.2 hp @ 5107 rpm / 457.2 tq @ 4816 rpm. Detonation. 22 psi.
2nd pull = 452.8 hp @ 5061 rpm / 474 tq @ 4970 rpm. 20.9 psi.
Billet 6765 air cooled bb, S cover.
1st pull = 429 hp @ 5110 rpm / 448.6 tq @ 4847 rpm. 20 psi.
2nd pull = 458.4 hp @ 5185 rpm / 480.3 tq @ 4930 rpm. 21.5 psi.
3rd pull = 482.6 hp @ 5229 rpm / 495.1 tq @ 4915 rpm. 23 psi.
So, he picked up 29.8 hp with only 2 psi more. Which shows the power potential of the Billet 67 wheel once the boost is turned up past 20psi. Nice gains. And he told me that the spool up difference on the street was incredible.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Our 4th contestant was Derek Godwin and his '86 T-Type. His combo was a Cast PT70 GTQ journal bearing turbo with a T4 .68 A/R housing. Built 109 block, 235 CI with Diamond pistons, block girdle, 218/212 hydraulic roller cam, Eagle crank, Oliver rods, ARP fasteners throughout. PTE Oil filtration kit, ported and polished iron heads with matching intake, roller rockers, 70mm throttle body, 70mm upper plenum, Cotton's Performance front mount intercooler, Turbosmart external wastegate. XFI EMS system, individual EGT setup, volt booster, 83# injectors through stock fuel lines, alky injection kit, dual XP in tank pumps. 3.5" downpipe into dual 3" cat back exhaust system. PTC converter in a TH400 trans with brake. 3.42 gears with spool. For Derek's combo, I chose one of our Billet 71 HPQ turbos with our ACBB cartridge. And because of this ACBB cartridge, I wanted to see the spool up difference between the T4 .81 A/R housing and the T4 .68. I figured it should not be that difficult to spool it and he would have very good flow capability with the .81 housing. Jack was tuning.
Cast PT70 GTQ T4 .68 pulls
1st pull = 449.4 hp @ 5327 rpm / 492.7 tq @ 4782 rpm. 21 psi.
2nd pull = 493.6 hp @ 5147 rpm / 518.2 tq @ 4902 rpm. 24 psi.
3rd pull = 536.3 hp @ 5261 rpm / 545.9 tq @ 5062 rpm. 28 psi.
Billet 71 HPQ ACBB T4 .81 pulls
1st pull = 505 hp @ 5196 rpm / 514.2 tq @ 5011 rpm. 24.5 psi.
2nd pull = 558.6 hp @ 5390 rpm / 553.6 tq @ 5185 rpm. 30 psi.
So he made 22.3 more hp with only 2 psi more. And spool up was very nice.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Our 5th contestant was Steve Sullivan and his TSM class legal car. His combination consisted of a Cast PT70 HPQ journal bearing and TSM legal turbo. 240 CI 109 block TSM motor. Billet crank, Champion GN-1 heads fully ported with matching Champion stock style intake. 218/218 billet roller cam, Cotton's Performance front mount intercooler, Fast Bank to Bank system, ATI torque converter and TA Performance headers. Car has run a 9.54 @ 142 at 3600#. Jack Cotton was tuning.
Cast PT70 HPQ pulls
1st and only pull = 608.2 hp @ 6170 rpm / 540.1 tq @ 5699 rpm. 27.4 psi.
Billet 71 HPQ with ACBB chra pulls
1st pull = 605.4 hp @ 6259 rpm / 508 tq @ 6258 rpm. 27 psi.
2nd pull = 612.5 hp @ 6252 rpm / 515.1 tq @ 6239 rpm. 26 psi.
3rd pull = 608.1 hp @ 6095 rpm / 609.8 tq @ 5449 rpm. 26 psi.
So, on his 2nd pull, he was able to make 4.3 hp more with 1.4 psi less boost. Which is very good all things considered. I'm sure if we would have had more time, they could have tuned more into the combo.
I took video of each and every dyno pull. I need to get them edited up and posted on You Tube, which might take me some time as my skillz are a little rusty. I also have some pictures I took that I need to get on my PB account that I will post up as well. Which should not take very long at all.
When the dust settled, all 5 of the contestants were happy with the results. And all of them happily purchased their turbos. One thing that these numbers do not show, is the actual difference in spool up characteristics between the two turbos. The dyno did not have that capability, but I'm sure the guys could review their data logs and tell us some very valuable info. Temps hovered in the 50*- 57* range on both days and when that fan kicked on, it got cold in the dyno room. No casualties were experienced, except of course for tire wear, he he he.
So there you have it everyone. I was pleasantly surprised with the results. Too see the smiles on everyone's faces was priceless. Again, I'd like to Thank Richard for his generous hospitality and for letting these guys use his tools and resources whenever they needed anything. And I do mean anything. That was way more than we ever expected. Also, I'd like to thank you 5 guys again, for participating in this challenge. I thought it went very smoothly.
I would also like to thank Paul, for all his hard work and with running the dyno. You did great and it was very nice working with you.
And Gene, thank you for all your help and wrenching. You really helped alot of us out and we all greatly appreciate it.
Also, Bob Bailey with his tuning help and first hand Inventor/Creator help with our guys who were using his Power Logger. I can't tell you how Awesome that is, to have the person who invented the Power Logger there to help you with your tune and your datalogs. You can't get any better than that.
And last, but certainly not least, I'd like to personally thank Clint for all his hard work and organizational skills. I would not have been able to make this happen without your help and guidance. You did an Excellent job. And I know you're still hard at it, at the track.
I thoroughly enjoyed my time at the event and can't wait to go back next year. Thanks again to all of you who made this happen and who helped me. Richard, Clint, Shane, Paul, Gene, Cal, Otto, Jack, Harry, Bob
Patrick Rubio
