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Discussion in 'E85 Technical Forum' started by belsie, Oct 12, 2017.
Do you agree with Howling Mad that Ethanol is cheaper to produce than gasoline?
Can you name a law or regulation that allocates tax revenue to the oil industry?
Im not going to get into all the specifics but there are over $400 billion in fossil fuel subsidies ....
Import Bank and Overseas Private Investment corporation are heavy contributors .. Wonder where they get their funding ?
Obama actually started to put a halt on OIL subsidies
Here is some reading material for you :
Deep Water Royalty Relief Act
American Jobs Creation Act
Energy Policy Act
Both Bush 1 and Bush 2 Really added to the subsidies
They both did some bad things.
and ALOT has changed since 2009 ... Come on man seriously enough with the ANTI Eth kick .. GO BASH the oil industry that has cost you 100X as much in tax money as Eth did
Some of his findings are just stupid gross off .. the very first line with corn production stats is just COMPLETE BULLSHIT and are GROSSLY off.. WTF
how do people get away with just guessing at numbers or putting in numbers that they got from 1 source that is the anomaly ... I don't get it
Can you provide us with the name of a law or regulation that subsidizes the oil industry?
I gave you 3 ..
the Depletion allowance is a huge one that is still in effect .. its been active for over 91 years and counting !!!
Honestly, I have no real dog in this hunt, nor do I care all that much. I've stated E85 isn't a good fit for me.
The fact is, and one you seem to not be willing to acknowledge, is there seem to be some very obvious oil company "subsidies" out there.... very easily found with a quick Google search. You asked for them, so here are a few in chronological order.
I highly doubt all of these subsidies just "ended" in 2013, the last date this search covered, and that the oil companies have been "on their own" since 2013. Highly, highly doubt it.
This was only a cursory search of your question.
You rail against E85 , yet you use it in your TB via personal choice, not everyday pump gasoline and not by any direct national or state government mandate that you are able to directly point at, but E85 of your own volition, correct?
You've asked for proof that oil subsidies exist. In kind, can you and will you, on the other hand, prove otherwise, that oil producer subsidies NO LONGER exist?
I'm just asking.
The ball is in your court now.
Everything on this list is just a history of two political parties fighting over the tax code. One party calls it an exemption while the other calls it a loophole. Of coarse,the people in both parties use every exemption that the law allows them as do all Americans. One party calls it an exemption while the other party calls it a subsidy. A subsidy is when the government gives money to a business or industry for the purpose of covering the costs associated with doing business. This money comes from the citizens of the country who pay taxes. Every American can deduct costs of doing business. We don't pay taxes on money we bring in. We pay taxes on profits. In the tax code there are exemptions for many many things. For instance we all get a personal exemption.
Their is however one subsidy on your list and that is the 90 billion dollars of tax payer money that Obama handed out in 2009. None of it went to the oil industry. Many of the businesses that received money made some product and went bankrupt. This is how people spend money that is not theirs.
Depletion allowance/deduction for loss is a tax deduction. Do you ever knowingly refuse to use any legal tax deduction that the tax code allows you?
And like it or not, when you buy your E85, you are willingly and knowingly buying into exactly what you rail against here.
With that, your point now falls upon deaf ears. If you're not part of the solution, just like me, you're part of the problem.
This has become a dead horse. Buy all the E85 you can if it's avilable where you live. Don't if it's not.
It's a pretty simple decision.
Have a nice night and good weekend. I'll be at the track on Sunday and see how cool temps and 91 plus alky injection does in a simple street car with a stock ECM.
I'm certain 10.5** @ 130 plus is in the cards.
Its a subsidy... read more into .. you'll learn
The money to prop up ethanol is being forcibly removed from your wallet and mine.They remove money from my wallet and I have no choice but to buy it because it is in all gasoline available to me. I'm being harmed twice. As far as E85 goes,I'm taking advantage of a product that I'm being forced to prop up.
Another insidious thing that happens after we prop up ethanol is that the people who work for government bureaucracies are forced to fuel their company vehicles with E85. E10 isn't good enough for them. I wonder what percent of ethanol production ends up in government vehicles and the vehicles of the so called green companies that receive subsidies?
So why don't you bitch about all the TAX money that is taken out of your pocket on things you DON't actually use ... instead of bitching about the prpduct you DO actually use and lets your Buick Run to its potential ..
I don't get it ... its like complaining about being able to buy 100 Octane gasoline for $1.50 a gallon ..
Some of us consider ourselves fortunate to have this alternative .. otherwise we'd be paying $2.60 a gallon for 87 octane and lose 50% of the power we have thanks to E85..
stop your whining and pay for what you use ..
I,m not whining. I,m responding to this thread which is a cry for us to demand our politicians to do something to force increased availability to E85. I'm simply informing the OP how all of this stuff got started and that there is no need to ask for more E85 because it is a scam perpetrated on US tax payers. There is no need to ask thieves to ramp up their nefarious wealth stealing schemes. They will do it on their own as fast as they can and for as long as they can. One of Senator Ted Cruise's stated goals,during the 2016 presidential campaign,was to end the ethanol subsidies. He didn't win the presidency,so that will not happen. I'm disappointing that President Trump will not be ending them.
WOW...........I'm glad to see so many interested players & opinions!!!!! Bottom line to me is if it works for us and the availability is comfortable then give it a try. I have been E-85 for over 2 years in Fl. and enjoy the piece of mind when raising the boost etc..... I test each batch and store at least 60 gallons for as long as 6 months indoors. I remember hearing somewhere that Cow Dung gives off massive pollution Hmmmmmm. As to mileage "Who Cares" in most cases as we want performance & safety and the price is a nice bonus!! I feel the market for E-85 is growing within the performance audience mainly and may never be the citizen favorite and that's why we must make our voices heard!! LIKE IT LET THEM KNOW....don't like it then please enjoy continued success with your choice...........Happy Holidays
As crazy as it sounds livestock farts are a real concern. The methane produced is bad news.