Do you want E-85...??????

Why does the cost of E85 rise and fall in direct proportion to the rising and falling prices of gasoline when it contains only 15% gasoline?
Because people are only going to buy it if it's economical. If it's too cheap or too expensive compared to gas people will just buy the cheaper per mile one. Most people at least...not performance cars.
 
So,you agree with my earlier statement that Ethanol is being forced on us under the guise of saving the planet from certain destruction that we are causing by burning fossil fuels. I was mocked for saying this earlier. This also means that you believe that we can change the weather by burning one fuel instead of the other. Remember that the offensive poly atomic/greenhouse gas that is blamed for the destruction is CO2. Have you ever compared the CO2 output of a gasoline engine running on gasoline vs one running on E85? Have you ever monitored the CO2 output of the diesel engines of the tractors that plow the fields and plant and harvest the corn?


Ok I have to cut you off here cause now your just spewing complete Bullshit ...

OK .. just how much CO2 does a new Tier 4B tractor put out per Acre of Plowing ? Per ACre of Planting .. and how much does a Tier 4B combine put out per ACre of harvest ??
 
The first sentence seems to be an exaggeration. I don't recall anyone saying it was going to save the planet.
You stated that we are destroying the planet. The people who subscribe to that theory with you are claiming that the burning of fossil fuels is the cause and that burning ethanol instead of gasoline is part of the cure. If you support the theory that we are destroying the planet,you need to know that this is their solution. It is what they are saying,not you and I am only telling you what they are saying.

Some fuels do burn cleaner than others.
They,and therefore,we are only talking about CO2. We and they are not talking about pollutants like NOX and CO,only CO2/the gas that you and I exhale. Because of this we need to compare the exhaust gasses between an engine running gasoline and the same engine on E85 so we can compare the CO2 output of each fuel. Their claim is that burning E85 will produce less CO2 emissions.The problem with that theory is that as an engine increases in efficiency/burns more completely the fuel it is given,it produces more CO2. We can see this when we inject hydrogen into the air stream of an engine, The hydrogen acts as a catalyst which causes all of the fuel to be burned. When this happens,the CO2 produced will be higher. Again,as the engine burns more and more efficiently,you will find less and less NOX and CO/polutants and more and more CO2 in the exhaust.
 
Because people are only going to buy it if it's economical. If it's too cheap or too expensive compared to gas people will just buy the cheaper per mile one. Most people at least...not performance cars.
E85 costs x amount to produce. If the people who artificially manipulate the price of E85 below what it costs to produce,how do they make a profit?
 
Ok I have to cut you off here cause now your just spewing complete Bullshit ...

OK .. just how much CO2 does a new Tier 4B tractor put out per Acre of Plowing ? Per ACre of Planting .. and how much does a Tier 4B combine put out per ACre of harvest ??
Do you now agree that ethanol is being forced on us?
Do you now see that the people forcing it on us are doing it to reduce CO2 in the air that we breath to save the planet?
 
Do you now agree that ethanol is being forced on us?
Do you now see that the people forcing it on us are doing it to reduce CO2 in the air that we breath to save the planet?


NO ! nobody is FORCING anyone to USE or BURN Ethanol.. Does the Govt have a gun to your head saying HEY your gonna run this fuel like it or not. NOPE
you can run whatever fuel you want ... they have ethanol free Gasoline .. go ahead and use it if your SO ANTI-ETHANOL ...

If you really think that the reason Ethanol is being made available is to reduce GHG you really really need to lay off the kool-aid .

Guys like you really crack me up man ... some of your posts I find spot on .. but your SO off the mark here that it's just silly .

Let me ask this .. you bitch and complain about Ethanol subsidies ( that don't exist) but yet are perfectly willing to accept all the fossil fuel subsidies .
You keep insisting that ethanol Is being forced on us ( which nobody tells me what to put in my tank but me ) I can put in Gasoline with Ethanol, E85, 100% pure Gasoline, 100 octane, Av Gas , methanol , or whatever I want.

What is wrong with using Ethanol ?? Does it not work better in your buick than 87 Octane ?? Doesn't it unlock a completely different level of performance in your Turbo Buick ?
Then WTF is the BITCH about .. Those tree huggers made this a possibility for you .

Then you want to talk about CO2 production by Agricultural equipment that is being used to produce Corn ... which If you really did know the answer to that you wouldn't have brought it up because the Tier 4b Tractors / combines are so clean burning it's stupid. You babble about crop production as if it has a significant impact on GHG ... here are some numbers for you
The TOTAL GHG production from the Agricultural segment is about 8% .. of that 8% roughly 60% is from Methane production and NOS production from soil emissions, the remaining 35% is from Livestock and last 5% from machinery ...
Why don't you want to bring in power plant emissions, Car emissions, heavy truck emissions ?? 50 Acres of Forest consumes 30K pounds of CO2 .. any idea of how many tractors it takes to produce 30K pounds of CO2 ?

Whats your issue with supporting the American Farmer to help produce Ethanol ... Why is keeping the money in the USA such a bad idea ? whats wrong with fossil fuel alternatives ?
 
Ethanol is being forced on us. Good luck finding "ethanol free" gasoline around where I am. Worse part is I also can't get E85. So we get the disadvantages yet I cant get the advantages for my Buick

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NO ! nobody is FORCING anyone to USE or BURN Ethanol.. Does the Govt have a gun to your head saying HEY your gonna run this fuel like it or not. NOPE
you can run whatever fuel you want ... they have ethanol free Gasoline .. go ahead and use it if your SO ANTI-ETHANOL ...

If you really think that the reason Ethanol is being made available is to reduce GHG you really really need to lay off the kool-aid .

Guys like you really crack me up man ... some of your posts I find spot on .. but your SO off the mark here that it's just silly .

Let me ask this .. you bitch and complain about Ethanol subsidies ( that don't exist) but yet are perfectly willing to accept all the fossil fuel subsidies .
You keep insisting that ethanol Is being forced on us ( which nobody tells me what to put in my tank but me ) I can put in Gasoline with Ethanol, E85, 100% pure Gasoline, 100 octane, Av Gas , methanol , or whatever I want.

What is wrong with using Ethanol ?? Does it not work better in your buick than 87 Octane ?? Doesn't it unlock a completely different level of performance in your Turbo Buick ?
Then WTF is the BITCH about .. Those tree huggers made this a possibility for you .

Then you want to talk about CO2 production by Agricultural equipment that is being used to produce Corn ... which If you really did know the answer to that you wouldn't have brought it up because the Tier 4b Tractors / combines are so clean burning it's stupid. You babble about crop production as if it has a significant impact on GHG ... here are some numbers for you
The TOTAL GHG production from the Agricultural segment is about 8% .. of that 8% roughly 60% is from Methane production and NOS production from soil emissions, the remaining 35% is from Livestock and last 5% from machinery ...
Why don't you want to bring in power plant emissions, Car emissions, heavy truck emissions ?? 50 Acres of Forest consumes 30K pounds of CO2 .. any idea of how many tractors it takes to produce 30K pounds of CO2 ?

Whats your issue with supporting the American Farmer to help produce Ethanol ... Why is keeping the money in the USA such a bad idea ? whats wrong with fossil fuel alternatives ?
Are you saying that a mandate is a gentle
suggestion and desire for someone to do something and you can do it or not as you see fit without penalty? Do you also believe this is the case with the health insurance mandate in the ACA?
 
they have ethanol free Gasoline .. go ahead and use it if your SO ANTI-ETHANOL
I can get ethanol free gasoline if I put my car on pontoons and pull up to a filling station on one of the local lakes in my area or I can go to the farm store and buy quarts of 91 octane ethanol free gasoline for $5.00. Do you know why I can get ethanol free gasoline at lakes and farm stores? Because ethanol absorbs water and screws up the engines on boats,chainsaws and lawnmowers during the off seasons. I love E85. I don't like the fact that wealth is being taken from people under penalty of law to prop up the ethanol industry. It's bad for the people being harmed and it takes money out of the economy that we could all compete for. It's legal theft. It is,as you said,wealth redistribution.

If you really think that the reason Ethanol is being made available is to reduce GHG you really really need to lay off the kool-aid .
The EPA is the un-elected bureaucracy that mandates the use of ethanol. It is they who say they are doing it to reduce green house gasses,mainly CO2. I'm only relaying to you what they say.

What is wrong with using Ethanol ?
It absorbs water,it reduces gas mileage,and it is very expensive to produce. If these thing were not true,we would have been using it for the last 100 years to power our internal combustion engines.
 
I wish I could buy gasoline free ethanol. But they’re forcing me to use gasoline mixed in with my ethanol.
 
I wish I could buy gasoline free ethanol. But they’re forcing me to use gasoline mixed in with my ethanol.
I've thought about this as well. It is however quite amazing what E85 allows us to do. The 15% of crappy gasoline in it doesn't seem to get in the way of producing power. Even E70 is amazing.
 
We would have been using ethanol for the last 100 years if not for the oil industry bribing the government to force use to use a cheap dirty byproduct of kerosene...
 
We would have been using ethanol for the last 100 years if not for the oil industry bribing the government to force use to use a cheap dirty byproduct of kerosene...
Why would someone have to force someone to buy a product that is inexpensive?
 
E85 costs x amount to produce. If the people who artificially manipulate the price of E85 below what it costs to produce,how do they make a profit?

Well E85 seemed to kick off when gas prices were rocketing out of control, and corn prices were really low. It was a good idea at the time. Corn operates at a loss too and get subsidized. Why? Because the alternative is worse. We would lose a lot of jobs. We could be foreign dependent which could turn bad for a number of reasons like putting the price in their hands, we could go to war and lose the source. Anyway the big seller for E85 was renewable. Greener planet was way down on the list of importance for it. I'm tired and rambling so I'm going to stop now.:yawn:
 
Well, mainly because ethanol is not only cheaper but easier to produce and oil companies who had a vested interest in gasoline didn't appreciate that. American Petroleum Institute argued that tax incentives for ethanol would hurt the oil industry, reduce state treasuries, and create a bootlegger' atmosphere around fueling stations. They also claimed alcohol fuel was inferior to gasoline. They even went as far as trying to continue prohibition to make it harder to produce ethanol. But you don't really care about any of that. You're right because you think you're right and no amount of evidence will change that despite you being 100% wrong. Have fun arguing with yourself
 
Well, mainly because ethanol is not only cheaper but easier to produce and oil companies who had a vested interest in gasoline didn't appreciate that. American Petroleum Institute argued that tax incentives for ethanol would hurt the oil industry, reduce state treasuries, and create a bootlegger' atmosphere around fueling stations. They also claimed alcohol fuel was inferior to gasoline. They even went as far as trying to continue prohibition to make it harder to produce ethanol. But you don't really care about any of that. You're right because you think you're right and no amount of evidence will change that despite you being 100% wrong. Have fun arguing with yourself

Can we all just have a shot of E100 now :)
 
Well E85 seemed to kick off when gas prices were rocketing out of control, and corn prices were really low.
E 85 is just the latest thing from the ethanol industry. The industry has been moving since the seventies. It sounds like you believe that fuel prices were high because of some unknown/unforeseen reason and that corn prices were low for the same unknown reasons.One of the things that like minded people,who say they want to save the planet,did was make it very difficult for Americans to get oil out of the ground. They did this to cause oil prices to rise. In their great wisdom,they thought this would cause people to drive less and that would help save the planet. The thing that they never imagined happened instead.The price of oil was so high that you could spend more money to get it out of the ground and still make a profit. Since oil doesn't receive any subsides and never has they couldn't make profits as easily as when the price of oil was low. Having a much greater profit margin allowed them to experiment and greatly improve their ability to extract oil and natural gas from shale rock where they couldn't get to it before. Enter hydraulic fracturing. They never saw it coming. The next move was for OPEC to open the spigots to bring the price down to a point where the frackers couldn't make a profit. This worked and caused alot to loose their jobs in the oil business. Too late,however because there was enough time to greatly improve fracking which meant they could get to oil at a cheaper cost and allow for profit. Again,they had to do it at a certain cost to make a profit because they are not subsidized. This all happened during the Obama Presidency. The American entrepreneurial spirit and ingenuity is what brought the prices down from the artificially high price it was at. Now president Trump has opened the way for Americans to get more oil and natural gas out of the ground and,just like that,we lead the world in the production of both.

It's important to know why things are as they are. It is important to realize that when the government gets involved in anything using other peoples money,it's the first step toward destroying that thing.
 
E 85 is just the latest thing from the ethanol industry. The industry has been moving since the seventies. It sounds like you believe that fuel prices were high because of some unknown/unforeseen reason and that corn prices were low for the same unknown reasons.One of the things that like minded people,who say they want to save the planet,did was make it very difficult for Americans to get oil out of the ground. They did this to cause oil prices to rise. In their great wisdom,they thought this would cause people to drive less and that would help save the planet. The thing that they never imagined happened instead.The price of oil was so high that you could spend more money to get it out of the ground and still make a profit. Since oil doesn't receive any subsides and never has they couldn't make profits as easily as when the price of oil was low. Having a much greater profit margin allowed them to experiment and greatly improve their ability to extract oil and natural gas from shale rock where they couldn't get to it before. Enter hydraulic fracturing. They never saw it coming. The next move was for OPEC to open the spigots to bring the price down to a point where the frackers couldn't make a profit. This worked and caused alot to loose their jobs in the oil business. Too late,however because there was enough time to greatly improve fracking which meant they could get to oil at a cheaper cost and allow for profit. Again,they had to do it at a certain cost to make a profit because they are not subsidized. This all happened during the Obama Presidency. The American entrepreneurial spirit and ingenuity is what brought the prices down from the artificially high price it was at. Now president Trump has opened the way for Americans to get more oil and natural gas out of the ground and,just like that,we lead the world in the production of both.

It's important to know why things are as they are. It is important to realize that when the government gets involved in anything using other peoples money,it's the first step toward destroying that thing.
If you purchase a 55 gallon drum of E98,it will cost you a little over $6.00 per gallon. Why is that?


How much you want .. it cost me $2.88 a gallon
 
E 85 is just the latest thing from the ethanol industry. The industry has been moving since the seventies. It sounds like you believe that fuel prices were high because of some unknown/unforeseen reason and that corn prices were low for the same unknown reasons.One of the things that like minded people,who say they want to save the planet,did was make it very difficult for Americans to get oil out of the ground. They did this to cause oil prices to rise. In their great wisdom,they thought this would cause people to drive less and that would help save the planet. The thing that they never imagined happened instead.The price of oil was so high that you could spend more money to get it out of the ground and still make a profit. Since oil doesn't receive any subsides and never has they couldn't make profits as easily as when the price of oil was low. Having a much greater profit margin allowed them to experiment and greatly improve their ability to extract oil and natural gas from shale rock where they couldn't get to it before. Enter hydraulic fracturing. They never saw it coming. The next move was for OPEC to open the spigots to bring the price down to a point where the frackers couldn't make a profit. This worked and caused alot to loose their jobs in the oil business. Too late,however because there was enough time to greatly improve fracking which meant they could get to oil at a cheaper cost and allow for profit. Again,they had to do it at a certain cost to make a profit because they are not subsidized. This all happened during the Obama Presidency. The American entrepreneurial spirit and ingenuity is what brought the prices down from the artificially high price it was at. Now president Trump has opened the way for Americans to get more oil and natural gas out of the ground and,just like that,we lead the world in the production of both.

It's important to know why things are as they are. It is important to realize that when the government gets involved in anything using other peoples money,it's the first step toward destroying that thing.


Again .. not factual here ....

OIL HAS ALWAYS BEEN SUBSIDIZED ! and still IS !!

And this goes back WAY WAY before OBAMA bud ... as in the LATE 80's !! Just look who was president at the time .
 
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