Cheap 109 buildup goals

firecat

New Member
Joined
Dec 26, 2004
Looking for advice on my buildup I am considering doing, I am trying to build an engine out of a bunch of parts as cheap as possible to get my GN back on the road again. Then I can pull my engine that is in the car and Very tired and do a nice forged roller motor. My goals for this first engine I want to do now is to stay on a tight budget but run 11.00's with either alky or race fuel? If it will run high 11's on 17 psi street trim I will be happy. I want to do the 2 center billet caps on a 109 and use stock crank, mains ground .010 stock rods prepped with arp bolts resized, .020 speed pro hyperutectic pistons, flat tappet hyd. cam and I am going to port a set of 8445 heads, new manley valves springs ect. And possible port the lower manifold. I have a front mount precision and a TE63-1. I am going to pull the front mount and put a neck kit on a stock intercooler and run a ta60 turbo on his combo. Any suggestions? Are my goals obtainable?
 
I am sort of in the same boat. I purchased a used just rebuilt to throw in while I build the original. If I could do it allr over again I would not try the budget build. There is really no such thing.
Or maybe I just have a sickness.
My rebuilt that I was just going to drop in is now getting ported heads, intake and either a roller cam or roller rockers.


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I just did the same thing so I have a "spare" sitting around. Ended up with a billet 6765, champ heads, roller cam, etc! It is nice to have a complete set up as a spare.
IMAG0945.jpg
 
I just cant afford to build a full tilt forged rotating assembly and roller cam setup right now but I want to get my old car on the road again. I want to put the sway bar back on it and set it up as a daily driver then hopefully purchase a solid roof car to do a better engine combo nicer car. When I was young and got the GN I was 19 I think? now I am 36 and have gained a lot of machinist skills/fabricating background. When I was young I just bolted parts on my stock longblock/tranny and eventually smoked the trans. I want to put the car back on the road after sitting 12 or years. Basically I just want to see how fast I can go on ported stock heads, I am sure time wise I would be ahead to just buy a champion cnc set but porting the heads myself and replacing guides ect really is only time to me.
 
You can run 11.0's on a stock shortblock all day everyday if it's healthy...cheapest option would probably be to buy a running stocker if you can find it since you say yours has issues.
 
Mine still runs but has a lot of blowby on a cold startup. I would rather machine up a fresh engine than take a chance on a 27 year old stocker. I am sure there are still some lower milage originals out there. I have one I could use motor and trans with 45,000 but I really don't want to use it up.
 
My trans needs gone thru also, I would like to go thru an engine and trans and swap them out over a weekend instead of having it all tore apart for the winter.
 
Just put the car together with the basics to get it around. Why spend money into something you will pull out in less than a year? Use those funds towards the nice engine since you're already on a budget.
 
Just remember it's ALWAYS cheaper and takes less time to do it right than twice.
 
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So should I not use the hyper speed pros? I have done some searching/reading. I guess if that's the only thing holding from better reliability for 500.00 I could get the protru wisecos?
 
Does the car still run and drive?
Why not just build the one that is already out of the car?
You're kind of doing two builds, for no reason.
 
forget the billet caps and use forged pistons, the rest will work fine at 11.0 be conservative on timing and zero knock
 
The OP is the guy who built my stroker. His long term goal is to build something similar to my motor minus the stroker. He has my old rotating assembly, cam, turbo etc. I believe he is getting another block and heads to set up another motor on the stand and swap it with the tired motor in his car on a budget for now just so he can get the car on the road. Then he can save and research what he wants long term and build the motor thats in the car and take his time.

Matt has the resources and ability to set this car up from rear diff cover to intercooler so the labor and machining is not in the equation $$$ wise.

If great machining and engine assembly plays a critical role on how these motors live and run then give this guy some sound advise on the budget parts and the rest is handled!;)
 
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Well that'll help...still I went much faster than that with a stock freshened short block not including the cam...if you have to bore it or just have to spend some cash put forged pistons in it and your done
 
If I were planning a budget build and still expecting a 11.00 time slip here is what I'd do:

No Caps. No Girdle. Stock turbo Crank. If you can tune the car with No Detonation you will be fine at this power level.

Keep the stock pistons if possible. The stock pistons are STRONG!!!! They are a bit heavy, but they will take a BEATING and come back for more. (Right Bison?) Hone the bores a couple thousandths oversize and coat the pistons to make up the difference.
Total Seal File fit rings. Control your ring end gaps.
Stock rods, carefully resized to the minimum bore dimension......save 100$ and skip the ARP bolts........NOT Needed!!!!
Flat tappet cam, good springs and lifters of your choice

Keep the rod and Main clearances TIGHT!!!!
.0016-.0018 on the rods
.0017-.0020 on the mains

Use a stock style timing chain, They last fairly well and they are not too expensive

Rework the stock front cover. Get a copy of the Buick Motorsports book. They describe the mods needed. Or check out Earl's write-up. Proven mods that flat work.

Don't waste a lot of time porting stock heads and buying expensive Manley valves. "Pocket Port" the bowls under the valves. That is where the most gain can be found.......ask any good head porter who checks his work on a flow bench.

Balance the rotating assembly. You free up horsepower when you balance an engine. You would be surprised how much imbalance exists in a factory rotating assembly.
 
If I were planning a budget build and still expecting a 11.00 time slip here is what I'd do:

No Caps. No Girdle. Stock turbo Crank. If you can tune the car with No Detonation you will be fine at this power level.

Keep the stock pistons if possible. The stock pistons are STRONG!!!! They are a bit heavy, but they will take a BEATING and come back for more. (Right Bison?) Hone the bores a couple thousandths oversize and coat the pistons to make up the difference.
Total Seal File fit rings. Control your ring end gaps.
Stock rods, carefully resized to the minimum bore dimension......save 100$ and skip the ARP bolts........NOT Needed!!!!
Flat tappet cam, good springs and lifters of your choice

Keep the rod and Main clearances TIGHT!!!!
.0016-.0018 on the rods
.0017-.0020 on the mains

Use a stock style timing chain, They last fairly well and they are not too expensive

Rework the stock front cover. Get a copy of the Buick Motorsports book. They describe the mods needed. Or check out Earl's write-up. Proven mods that flat work.

Don't waste a lot of time porting stock heads and buying expensive Manley valves. "Pocket Port" the bowls under the valves. That is where the most gain can be found.......ask any good head porter who checks his work on a flow bench.

Balance the rotating assembly. You free up horsepower when you balance an engine. You would be surprised how much imbalance exists in a factory rotating assembly.

Good information Dave, I will use this on my 40k stock rebuild.
 
My trans needs gone thru also, I would like to go thru an engine and trans and swap them out over a weekend instead of having it all tore apart for the winter.

What is your budget?

That will tell you what can and can't be done.
 
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