CCC friendly aftermarket cam for N/A 231/252

MY85pontiac

im too old for this crap!
Joined
May 17, 2002
Are there any CCC friendly cams I can use made by the aftermarket? I'm wanting to keep the CCC system as I'm only looking to make a little bit more power from stock. What I'm thinking of doing is getting a 252 long block and if I can find a CCC friendly cam, put it in and use the 4.1 intake I have now and change the th350 and 2.41 gear for a 2004r and 3.42 gear. I'd rather keep and use the system than remove it and if I can't find a CCC friendly aftermarket cam it's not a big deal. I looked up a cam for an 85 n/a 231 on oreillyauto's site and got this:


Additional Details
  • Exhaust Advertised Duration (Deg): 280 Degree
  • Exhaust Duration At 0.050 Inch Lift (Deg): 194 Degree
  • Exhaust Valve Lift With OE Rocker Arm Ratio (In): 0.384 Inch
  • Intake Advertised Duration (Deg): 251 Degree
  • Intake Duration At 0.050 Inch Lift (Deg): 180 Degree
  • Intake Valve Lift With OE Rocker Arm Ratio (In): 0.359 Inch
  • Valve Lift With OE Rocker Arm Ratio (In): 0.359 Intake/0.384 Exhaust
On Comp Cams' site I'm looking at their 240H grind:
Duration, Intake 240 Duration @ .050 lift 192
Duration, Exhaust 248 Duration @ .050 lift 200
Valve lift .403 intake and exhaust
Lobe lift .26
LSA 110°
Intake Centerline 106°

Then their 252H:

Duration, Intake, 252, @ lift .050 206
Duration, Exhaust, 252, @ .050 lift 206
Valve lift, .425 intake and exhaust
Lobe Lift .283
LSA 110°
Intake Centerline 106°

Would either of these work with the CCC system?

Also a Lunati 250 cam:
  • Advertised Duration (Int/Exh): 250/250
  • Duration @ .050 (Int/Exh): 200/200
  • Gross Valve Lift (Int/Exh): .426/.426
  • LSA/ICL: 107/107
  • Valve Lash (Int/Exh): Hyd/Hyd
  • RPM Range: 1200-5000
  • Includes: Cam Only
This one from Crower Cams looks promising:
Part Number 54242
Engine Make Buick
Year 1978-1986
Part Class Camshaft
Camshaft Name Mileage Compu-Pro
Camshaft Series Compu-Pro
Engine Type V6 - Evenfire
Engine Size 196 (3.2L), 231 (3.8L) & 252 (4.1L) Evenfire
Product Type Hydraulic Flat Tappet
Valve Lash .000" intake and .000" exhaust
Lobe center 110
Advertised Duration: Intake / Exhaust 242 / 250
Duration @ .050" Lift: Intake / Exhaust 180 / 190
Lobe Lift: Intake / Exhaust .258 / .258
Rocker Ratio: Intake / Exhaust 1.6 / 1.6
Gross Valve Lift: Intake / Exhaust .413 / .413
CID All d
Performance Level 1
Low RPM Idle
Peak HP 3500
Redline 4000

Like I said, I want a little bit more power but if I can't find a cam to work with the CCC system it's not the end of the world.
 
I used to run a 300HP chevy grind in my 84 Camaro and still had the CCC system. It worked fine. The 204/214 grind would do well and give you a bunch more power. If not that then the first one you mentioned sould work well.
 
+1 for one of the 204/214 grinds, a flat 206/206 or 208/208 will also gain some power.
 
I tried poston's 110 I think it was, then the Edelbrock 204/214 on my old hot air. The 204/214 idled better and pulled harder. Idles like a stocker, but really worked well in the car. Had it for over 10 years and never did zddp or anything. Broke it in right, then ran Castrol dino oil all the time. I am a believer in the Edel 204/214.
 
melling has a 204/214:


Additional Details
  • Exhaust Advertised Duration (Deg): 290 Degree
  • Exhaust Duration At 0.050 Inch Lift (Deg): 214 Degree
  • Exhaust Valve Lift With OE Rocker Arm Ratio (In): 0.472 Inch
  • Intake Advertised Duration (Deg): 280 Degree
  • Intake Duration At 0.050 Inch Lift (Deg): 204 Degree
  • Intake Valve Lift With OE Rocker Arm Ratio (In): 0.448 Inch
  • Valve Lift With OE Rocker Arm Ratio (In): 0.448 Intake/0.472 Exhaus
I like that it has a bit more lift and duration on the exhaust side and I was originally thinking it might work though it does say no compatible with computer

Crower also has a 204/214:
Part Number 54915
Engine Make Buick
Year 1978-1986
Part Class Camshaft
Camshaft Name Baja Beast
Camshaft Series Beast
Engine Type V6 - Evenfire
Engine Size 196 (3.2L), 231 (3.8L) & 252 (4.1L) Evenfire
Product Type Hydraulic Flat Tappet
Valve Lash .000" intake and .000" exhaust
Lobe center 112
Advertised Duration: Intake / Exhaust 280 / 290
Duration @ .050" Lift: Intake / Exhaust 204 / 214
Lobe Lift: Intake / Exhaust .281 / .296
Rocker Ratio: Intake / Exhaust 1.6 / 1.6
Gross Valve Lift: Intake / Exhaust .450 / .474
CID All d
Performance Level 3
Low RPM 1800
Peak HP 4500
Redline 5000


This cam would work with the CCC system? I'm already in the middle of doing mods to the 4.1 intake like the ones in the thread stickied at the top of this forum and I'm thinking about headers but not sure about the exhaust, there is a 2 1/4" dual exhaust I could use. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/wlk-89017/overview headers might be ceramic coated headers from Hedman. Carburetor would be a 4.1 CCC Quadrajet, I already have an Accel in-cap Super Coil, Moroso Mag Tune wires (couldn't find the Blue Max wires I was using) and some NGK v power plugs. An aftermarket module might be in the future. I know how this will seem but I'm only wanting to bolt stuff in/on and go. I could port the heads but I've never done that and buying ported heads might cost more than is feasible at the moment though I can always get some later on. Initially, I may use the exhaust manifolds and then upgrade to the headers later on and get the dual exhaust when I get the headers.

Because I'm looking at replacing the 231 long block with a 252 long block along with the trans and rear gear this will most likely happen in stages. I'm not sure if I'm replacing the long block or trans and rear gear first. I suspect if I replace the long block first, the car won't perform that well until I get the 2004r and 3.42 gear in and the car would probably benefit from that now and replacing the long block later would improve the use of the rear gear more. Differential will be an Eaton TrueTrac with 28 spline axles. The 28 spline axles might be overkill but they cost the same as the 26 spline so why not, right? I might also get a rear girdle cover too.

I'm tired of being stuck with a 2 bbl carb, a 3 speed automatic and a peg leg granny gear. I'm not looking for all out performance (I have a Cadillac 472 for that), I want a better daily driver that has some extra oomph when I step on the gas pedal. This 3.8 has performed very well and I see no need to put in a V8. I also had a 4.1 in an 82 Grand Prix LJ and I loved the Quadrajet and kept the top end off the engine before I got rid of the car (should have kept the whole engine) and while I was thinking of putting the 4.1 intake on the 3.8 I figure putting in a 252 for the extra cubic inches wouldn't hurt either. The 3.8 has 160K miles or so and while it's never given me any problems in the past, it's also 30 years old and the rope type rear main seal is like a sieve and a fresh long block would maybe give me another 30 years. I know the CCC system can handle a larger than stock cam but I'm not sure what it's limits are since I've never used an aftermarket came with the CCC system. I'd really like to put some EFI on the engine but I have all this other stuff to do first.
 
I tried poston's 110 I think it was, then the Edelbrock 204/214 on my old hot air. The 204/214 idled better and pulled harder. Idles like a stocker, but really worked well in the car. Had it for over 10 years and never did zddp or anything. Broke it in right, then ran Castrol dino oil all the time. I am a believer in the Edel 204/214.

The ZDDP issue was going to be the thing to bring up. I've never broken in an engine but I know how, I've seen it done and been next to the car when it was done. I just never did it myself.

Since the Edelbrock cam requires springs, what springs should I get? Maybe some beehive springs for a Chevy?
 
Since the Edelbrock cam requires springs, what springs should I get? Maybe some beehive springs for a Chevy?
The Z-28 chevy springs (early 70's) will work fine and you don't need beehives unless you go to a roller cam. Way to much pressure. The emission rules require a cam to be tested and it's not cheap, so the cam was never approved for a newer engine. It should work fine and give you plenty of power.

As far as the diff goes, you might start digging around in some scrapyards for a camaro or blazer from 96 up. Some of them came with thorsen carriers and that's almost as good as a posi, and a lot cheaper. No clutches and no special additives to deal with, and a junkyard won't cost that much.;)

Look in the for sale section and see if you can find a set of hooker headers for a TB. It uses 2 headers that look like RWD NA headers and will give you more than enough clearance to run duals or (better choice) a 3" single with 2.5" feeders from the headers.:sneaky: The single won't have as many issues with the drone these engines have a habit of producing at certain RPM levels.:D
 
Right, well I can check out the local pull a part, they have tons of Blazers but only a couple f-bodies, I'm pretty sure one of them has a Torsen in it. How hard is it to remove the pinion gear from the housing? Also how do you get the axles out from a Torsen unit? I just looked up images of them and they look similar in design (torque biasing) to the Eaton Truetrac. Any idea what gears Blazers came with? Do Torsens have tags on the rear like posis? The local Pull A Part shows ring and pinion for 70 plus 70 for the carrier. a few bucks for core charges and I'll be set. If the axles are good, can I use those?

Also, I'm guessing a single 3" is going to be a custom thing so no such animal exists. Where can i acquire mandrel bent pipes for this?
 
Right, well I can check out the local pull a part, they have tons of Blazers but only a couple f-bodies, I'm pretty sure one of them has a Torsen in it. How hard is it to remove the pinion gear from the housing? Also how do you get the axles out from a Torsen unit? I just looked up images of them and they look similar in design (torque biasing) to the Eaton Truetrac. Any idea what gears Blazers came with? Do Torsens have tags on the rear like posis? The local Pull A Part shows ring and pinion for 70 plus 70 for the carrier. a few bucks for core charges and I'll be set. If the axles are good, can I use those?
The axles will need to be from a G body with an 8.5" rear in it. Check the for sale section since they come up once in a while. Removal is pretty straight forward but if you want the gears then you'll need to pull the pinion nut before pulling the gears. Most of them should have a 3.73 gear. 4 bolts hold the caps on and the axles are held in with a C clip. Pull 1 bolt and a block out of the carrier and push the axles in to get the C clips out, then the axles come out.

Also, I'm guessing a single 3" is going to be a custom thing so no such animal exists. Where can i acquire mandrel bent pipes for this?

I got lucky and someone gave me a bunch of 3" pre-bent tubing off a diesel truck and it's perfect for a 3" single. It was gotten from a swap meet but you might find all you need in a junkyard and in decent condition.[/quote]
 
Keep in mind that a cam will perform differently in a 3.8 and a 4.1, so you can go with a little more cam in the 4.1. Also, any cam with over .420 lift at the valve will need the valve guides cut down for retainer to seal clearance, as well as new exhaust valves with smooth stems so the seals will not be damaged by the cutout in the stock stems. If you cut the guides, you might as well port the valve pockets. It only takes a little time for a noticeable power gain. Comp 980 valve springs are inexpensive and will work with any of those cams. A looser converter will also help with idle quality and low end performance. Summit and Jegs both have mandrel bent tubing in 3". Headers will help a lot also. Good luck with your project.
 
If anyone has a new "204/214" send it to me so I can analyze it and get some actual open/close data. I'll do one ex and one in lobe. If anyone has the lobe number catalog info for these lobes at .200" that would be useful also.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Bison, this is all I have for the 204/214 sitting in my garage. It's going in a buddy's motor soon, but let me seen if I get some extra time to take it to Crower. They are real close to me.

PS, sent you a PM.

ImageUploadedByTurboBuick1401062875.204213.jpg
 
If anyone has a new "204/214" send it to me so I can analyze it and get some actual open/close data. I'll do one ex and one in lobe. If anyone has the lobe number catalog info for these lobes at .200" that would be useful also.
PM Warwagon about that cam Brian. I sold him a new one last fall and I think he blew the engine so it may be sitting around now.
 
Hah, yeah right lol. I installed that cam in the car last year then it promptly blew a stock head gasket. But I'm still using it right now with the new setup for this year. And... it don't quit pulling. PS no cam card in the box Charlie lol but it's alright I just copied the one Squid posted.
 
I didn't follow any of the (Caution) advise I just learned on that cam card oops. Seems to make no difference on my engine, It's not having any problems others reported with this cam.
 
Hah, yeah right lol. I installed that cam in the car last year then it promptly blew a stock head gasket. But I'm still using it right now with the new setup for this year. And... it don't quit pulling. PS no cam card in the box Charlie lol but it's alright I just copied the one Squid posted.
LOL If you didn't notice all the specs were written on the outside of the box Adam.:p I didn't get the cam card when I bought it so I had to look them up myself.:(
 
The axles will need to be from a G body with an 8.5" rear in it. Check the for sale section since they come up once in a while. Removal is pretty straight forward but if you want the gears then you'll need to pull the pinion nut before pulling the gears. Most of them should have a 3.73 gear. 4 bolts hold the caps on and the axles are held in with a C clip. Pull 1 bolt and a block out of the carrier and push the axles in to get the C clips out, then the axles come out.



I got lucky and someone gave me a bunch of 3" pre-bent tubing off a diesel truck and it's perfect for a 3" single. It was gotten from a swap meet but you might find all you need in a junkyard and in decent condition.
[/quote]

So the Torsen units are in 8.5" rears? They fit in 7.5" rears? 8.5" axles fit in 7.5" rears? That doesn't make sense. If I need to get a 8.5" rear I might as well just buy the 7.5" Eaton.
 
Keep in mind that a cam will perform differently in a 3.8 and a 4.1, so you can go with a little more cam in the 4.1. Also, any cam with over .420 lift at the valve will need the valve guides cut down for retainer to seal clearance, as well as new exhaust valves with smooth stems so the seals will not be damaged by the cutout in the stock stems. If you cut the guides, you might as well port the valve pockets. It only takes a little time for a noticeable power gain. Comp 980 valve springs are inexpensive and will work with any of those cams. A looser converter will also help with idle quality and low end performance. Summit and Jegs both have mandrel bent tubing in 3". Headers will help a lot also. Good luck with your project.

That's why I was wanting to go with a 252 to replace the 231. The 252 would respond better to the cam than a 231. I've never ported heads before but I'm guessing what you're suggesting is taking away the extra meat around the guide and smoothing the bowl to allow for more flow. what exhaust valves would you suggest to replace the stock ones? The comp 980 seals are the positive type that stay on the guide? What stall would you recommend for the convertor? I was thinking something around 2300 RPM with lock up would do well. I have ceramic Hedman headers in mind when I upgrade the exhaust.


And if anyone can answer, what mods are suggested for the CCC Quadrajet? I was going to set the secondary air valve spring so it opens easily and readily. Would removing the secondary lockout be helpful or just a waste of time? Also what about the secondary rods and hanger? Would changing either be a good idea?
 
The 980's I referred to are Comp valve springs. The valve seals I use come from TA Performance. They come in two diameters, depending on the size of your cutting tool, and can be had in rubber with teflon or metal clad viton. I like viton seals. The stock replacement exhaust valves with smooth stems are from Sealed Power, part #V4168. Summit has them. Manley and Ferrea make stainless valves also, but propably not needed for your build. There is a lot of shrouding around the valve pockets just under the seats. Removing that does not take much time. You can do it by hand with a die grinder or some machine shops have cutters that will do a nice job. Earl Brown has a post on it I think. A 2300-2500 lockup converter should work pretty well for the street with your combo.
 
The 2nd gen s-10 blazer and 4th gen F body cars all have the 7.5" except for a very few of the 4wd blazers.All of them have 28 spline axles but none of them will fit a G body car. The turbo regal after 84 came with 8.5" axles and 28 splined shafts and the axles will fit a 7.5" axle if the carrier has 28 splines. You take the carrier out of the F body or blazer and put it in your axle then get the 28 splined shafts out of a turbo regal
 
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