Car is dead. Need ideas

VadersV6

Active Member
Joined
Sep 9, 2004
I turn the key and nothing happens. I get 12.2 volts on the scanmaster. The big high dollar battery charger doesnt work, even with it set on "start engine". Using the charger tester, it shows over 13 volts. I noticed today that the engine was starting to crank slower and slower every time I started it. Figured the battery was going. I started to notice a whining sound at low rpm and low speed, that changed with rpm. I was starting to think an accessory was starting to seize up, causing the belt to drag, causing the alternator to not spin very fast. I got almost all the way home and stopped at el pollo loco to get dinner for everyone. Given their outstanding service, I was waiting there in the drive thru with the engine running for 20 minutes, with no other customers, trying to find someone who speaks english. Given my wife got fired yesterday and she spent the whole day shopping and hanging out, I was wondering why the hell I was getting dinner for them after driving for an hour and getting home at 9PM. Anyway, The engine started to smell like burning rubber. I drove to sav on to grab some things. Came on out, and went to start the car, and despite having full power, the engine wouldnt crank at all. Nothing. I waited for a few minutes and it fired right up. Wierd. Got home, ate, and came back out to pull it in the garage. Car is dead. Has full power. Everything works. Popped the hood and saw nothing out of the ordinary. Tranny fluid looks ok, but low. Oil looks ok. Battery cables are still connected, although I cant see under there cause its dark. I noticed that the bottom side of my passenger side header is all orange. The top of the crossover pipe is all orange. Like BRIGHT orange....all on the passenger side. Does this trigger any thoughts? Maybe a fried battery cable? My engine turns over with a wrench, so the motor isnt seized. Was thinking maybe my coolant temp sensor was bad. It looks like the steel section of my tranny lines have been laying on my crossover pipe. Im hoping the tranny fluid hasnt been cooking.
Im going to crawl under there tomorrow. Lucky for me, my wife will be leaving for an essential and important baby shower, so I cant get anywhere.
So anyone have any ideas? WHat was the whining sound? WHy was the engine cranking with less power every time I started it? Why did it start at sav on, the second time I turned the key? What was the burning smell and why are my headers orange?
Theres an oil leak under there I saw. Looks like tranny fluid. Will burning tranny fluid on the headers leave everything orange? Maybe my steel lines for the tranny cooler have burned through from the contact with the crossover pipe, and the tranny was getting cooked. One of them looks like it may have actually melted INTO the crossover pipe. But unfortunately I cant get a good look now. Im starting to think the lines were laying on there, it burned through, started cooking the fluid into a vapor before it could even drip, and the fluid killed the starter or the solenoid.
Sound feasible?
 
I'm with you that the insulation on the battery cable melted. Red probably turns orange after it burns.
 
I'm w/...

Fuelie600. sounds like the bendix got stuck in the flywheel, usually causes the whining sound changing w/the rpms. don't forget to check for corrosion on the starter cable while you arre down there.:cool:
 
I saw a brake line glowing orange once due to fact that the positive battery cable was shorting out on the brake line.
 
What the hell is a bendix?
I went out there about an hour ago, and the engine fired right up. WHy? No idea. But it had a whining sound coming from an accessory, but what was weird is that it wasnt clear which one. The passenger side valve cover is clacking like crazy. I shut it down. The alternator was really hot after running for only a minute or so.
Its starting to look like I lost oil pressure last night. I dont have an oil pressure gauge. First I popped off the intake tube. The compressor wheel has like 5 miles of thrust clearance now. Didnt used to have any.
Just 3 or 4 weeks ago, I changed my oil. I had a Fram oil filter on there for 1 day cause I wanted to get the oil extra clean when I changed it the next day. The oil filter would NOT come off, with any tool I had. I had only screwed it on hand tight. It took 3 hours to remove it. It involved punching holes in it, trying to spin it out. Didnt work. I was hammering on the thing for hours. Eventually all that was left was the ring that screws to the timing cover. Took about an hour after that before I was able to force it off. First time I bought a FRAM product, and itll be the last time. I used some dino oil for the first time as well, and now everything is ****ed.
So anyway, I popped off the valve cover and everything looks ok. I rotated the motor and watched every rocker. No flat lobes. But what sucks is the insane amount of leakdown I hear. Like all the pressure is leaking into the block. I popped out the cam sensor. Cam sensor is fine in every respect. I got in the block with a long screwdriver, and the oil pump is NOT fine. The driveshaft spins ok clockwise, but counterclockwise, its hard to turn and really chunky feeling.
I basically traded my beautiful, fast as hell 99 cobra for this thing, which has been a disaster of monstrous proportions since I got it. Now the engine may be shot and I have no money. My wife lost her job 2 days ago, and thanks to her spending disease, we have no money saved.
So here I am at home and I need an oil pump and an alternator. This doesnt explain the no start condition either, so I dont know what direction to go in. Got any theories as to what happened? Is there anything that would cause a huge current drawing condition as a result of low oil pressure?
Last night the engine turned over by hand, so its not like the motor was seized. Im wondering if the headers turned orange from getting smoked. If thats the case, then my coolant temp sensor is a ****ing liar.
So should I walk to kragen and get a new oil pump? ANy special tricks to installing them on these engines? I dont remember anything unusual. I didnt build too many v6 buicks in the past.
 
The bendix is in the starter.
Beating on the oil filter for 3 hours didn't sound good.
The glowing of the header could be running extremely lean causing excessive heat or restricted exhaust system. Good Luck
 
sounds like a major short to ground somewhere, what is odd is the leakdown and oil filter, oil pump episode. I know you probably don't want to hear this but i would tear into the engine, maybe take off both heads to see whats up. Good Luck.
 
A rebuild isnt in the cards. I pulled the plugs and they look ok. The rear ones have been looking oily lately, ever since I put the stock hardware back on the motor to get it smogged. The tube that runs from the passenger side valve cover to the intake tube, has basically been dumping oil into the turbo. But it hasnt been really burning oil with any significance. All in all, the plugs dont look bad. But it looks to me like the whole front cover needs to be pulled to change the oil pump, right? This front cover isnt something autozone will be carrying on the shelves, is it? The headers arent orange from heat...the engine is totally cool. They're orange from something burning, like maybe the starter wire. The tranny lines have been laying right on the crossover this whole time, so the tranny fluid was probably cooking. I had cut the steel lines, flared the ends, and used 2 fuel injection hose clamps at each end. One of the clamps came off and now theres only one on there, and it looks like its been leaking pretty bad for awhile. I think the fluid has been getting on the crossover and burning, creating the orange painted look on the underside of the headers.
Basically what I need to do is fix this oil pump (if its bad...sure feels like it). I need to pull the front cover by the looks of it. Theres fluid all over the starter...probably the source of grounding. I need to clean all that up. I need to get it going again and sell this POS. Its been a neverending battle to keep this thing on the road, and someone sprayed the paint on the passenger side of the car way too thick, and its cracking open everywhere and looks like dog****. The a-arm bushings are literally GONE. They're rotted out to the point they're gone. The rest of the suspension is trashed. Without a complete frame off resto, this car will never be anywhere as near as nice as every other car Ive owned was. Im surprised its been on the road this long, driving 70+ miles a day. Had it not been for the constant wrenching, it wouldnt have stayed on the road.
So, do I need to pull the front cover to replace the oil pump? DOes the pump and cover assembly come as 1 piece, or is it separate?
 
Who's the idiot that always throws up 1 star? Get off your mom's computer and clean your room like she told you to.
Im up **** creek and have no way to get to work.
 
hey vader. You dont need to take the cover off to do the oil pump, really all it is are some gears under the oil filter. With the filter off, you'll see a small 10 mm bolt, and about 4 more around the perimeter on the bottom. If you buy a oil pump kit, it will probably come with a plate/spacer, some gears, a few springs, and a plunger thing. Its really easy to do. If your starter took a dump, I have one here, its used but you can have it. I might also have a positive battery wire hanging out there too. I feel for ya on the work thing. I have a buddys jeep i'm driving around trying to sell. The other day I had to drive my sport coupe becaused I needed to do some wrenching on the jeep, and realized my tags on the regal were expired:eek: I had to call out sick from work. Now I have to register the car before the jeep sells, i'll do it monday, but I too was up shi%s creek too because it was too rainy to drive the turboelky. In the rain it does'nt do anything but spin the tires, has no heater, and no wipers:eek: I once had a alternator go bad, made a whilning sound, and got super hot really quick. Once hot, car would not start until it cooled. Hope youfind the problem asap, let me know if you need the starter.
 
The biggest trick in these oil pumps (when you put it together) is to make sure you have 0.0015 - 0.002 clearance between the gears and cover plate.
There are some "other" things to look for if you take the front cover off, but that is not a concern for you right now.

One other thing .......
My first motor was burning oil from a blown HG (Not suggesting you have one), but, the burned oil "can" get into the intake through the EGR.
Take the EGR back off, or consider disabling it for now.

Look for scoring in the pump and excessive clearance between the gear shaft and the front cover. Maybe someone close to you can "step up" in and provide some assistance.
 
hey vader. You dont need to take the cover off to do the oil pump, really all it is are some gears under the oil filter. With the filter off, you'll see a small 10 mm bolt, and about 4 more around the perimeter on the bottom. If you buy a oil pump kit, it will probably come with a plate/spacer, some gears, a few springs, and a plunger thing. Its really easy to do. If your starter took a dump, I have one here, its used but you can have it. I might also have a positive battery wire hanging out there too. I feel for ya on the work thing. I have a buddys jeep i'm driving around trying to sell. The other day I had to drive my sport coupe becaused I needed to do some wrenching on the jeep, and realized my tags on the regal were expired:eek: I had to call out sick from work. Now I have to register the car before the jeep sells, i'll do it monday, but I too was up shi%s creek too because it was too rainy to drive the turboelky. In the rain it does'nt do anything but spin the tires, has no heater, and no wipers:eek: I once had a alternator go bad, made a whilning sound, and got super hot really quick. Once hot, car would not start until it cooled. Hope youfind the problem asap, let me know if you need the starter.
Sounds good to me. Thanks for the help! Where are you located?
Im pretty sure that when the oil filter siezed on there and I was tweaking and hammering, the cover plate for the pump shifted and caused clearance problems. The oil pressure probably took a dive and I never knew it cause I didnt have a gauge. I drove for a month like that...I dont know this to be a fact. It just seems logical. Its all chunky and hard to turn, my turbo shaft clearance is ****ed and the engine is clacking. Not only is the bottom side of the headers all orange, the passenger side header is cracked now too...in the accordian looking section of the header traveling forward toward the turbo. Maybe thats the new clacking sound. My wife and I had it out on saturday cause she's sick of all the important family things I miss out on cause Im always working on this car. And its never anything fun or to make it faster. She's on me to grow up and buy a 4 door. Its always some rinky dink crap thats keeping me from getting to work. The engine was solid until now. The turbo has at least 1/8" thrust clearance now, where before it had none I could feel by hand. I changed the battery, hoping that maybe it was just a fried cell. It wasnt that. I bought a new positive cable, but havent had the chance to crawl under there and change it. It seems like the starter relay is bad. The relay is integral with the starter on all the GM starters, right? Thats one thing I miss about Fords. That whining noise is worrying me, and the massive clacking on the passenger side. Seems like something got really hot. Im wondering if the temperature reading wasnt right. Like maybe I had an air pocket in there that the sensor was reading, and maybe my engine fried. Im just trying to think of what other car I can buy that wont bore me to death, but will be reliable. Im thinking of getting another 4 valve mustang (cobra or mach 1), but the wife is going ballistic over that idea. She thinks a 4 door is necessary for having kids. I said when we have kids then we'll worry about that and to get off my case. The whole reason I bought the GN was because it was plenty roomy for a family, they're good on gas, fast, and reliable. So much for that. I seemed to forget that these cars are 20 years old.
In the past month, my wife left me, we got back, then she lost her job, then the car broke down
 
My cat was really sick this morning..covered in its own urine and barely able to move. Its been sick for a week, and I found out my wife hasnt been taking care of it. I made my wife take it to the vet, and we found out she had leukemia and had to put her down...damn its always one thing or another.
Anyway, last night I was looking under the car for obvious wiring issues, causing the starter not to work. Nothing looked out of ordinary, except for the negative ground cable from the battery to the block. Whoever had crimped the terminal or whatever at the end, did a ****ty job and left about an inch of exposed wire. It looks like it was grounding on the turbo oil feed line. Awesome! That would explain the trashed turbo and everything else. The turbo was probably welding itself together, and God knows what else inside the motor. I pulled it off (that was a fun lesson figuring out how to access it), and fixed it all up. Degreased it and soldered it all up and used shrink tubing to seal it up. Still no luck.
So is there anything other than the starter, that would cause it not to crank? When I turn the ignition to the start position, all the way to the end..the security light flashes. Is this normal? Could the theft system (which hasnt been working properly for some time), be causing this? Is there another external relay somewhere, or a fuse that could cause this? Could it be the ignition tumbler, or switch inside? The lights on the dash appear normal when trying to start...like the switch in the column is working fine. What is that little rectangular box under the A/C lines, thats bolted to the fan cover for the heater/ac system? It has a big plug that plugs underneath. Its about 2 inches by 3 inches.
I need to get this fixed, but dont have much time to fool with a million different things. I dont get home till 8 and my wife needs her car back.
 
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