Cam opinions, size vs use, billet vs austemper, etc

[2QUIK6]

So I am doubling back on cam choice, or what I thought I wanted.....
Looking for easily obtainable mid-10s, car will be mostly street driven, street manners are important. 3000 stall PTS 9x11 LU convertor, GT6132e turbo but that could change later to a 6266BB or other...
Will have Champion aluminum ported heads. Will retain the stock rockers with HD shafts.
Stroker 3.625 stroke shooting for 9:1 compression.
I do not want a cam that has steep ramps requiring super heavy springs, and don't want to spin the motor much over 53-5500.
That said, I think I can use more than the std 206/206. Don't think I want to go much bigger than a 210 or 212 at around .500 lift.
I thought around a 208/210 or 212 would be a perfect fit, but that would be a custom grind it appears. With the stroker I figured I can go bigger than 206 without hurting the streetability much.
Would a 206/210 Rev-X like FTS sells be a good choice? How is the ramp on that cam? Was wanting a billet cam, but I understand there are other issues when going this route as they are odd fire and require some other special parts. And I don't think I really need to go billet if my ramps are not that steep, I want to take full advantage of the roller but do not want to go to the extreme and don't think I need to for my goals.
I do want it built right the first time and not second guess what I could have done to make it more durable.
Thoughts on other grinds, Custom grinds, for my goals?

 

[turbobitt]

Even a fast ramp cam doesn't necessary need a super heavy spring. It just needs the right spring installed the right height. With that said there is not usually any durability concerns running the extra spring load on todays quality hardware. I would not box yourself out of those choices based on your current thinking.
AG.

 

[Nick Micale]

I do not want to piss you off but my opinion may sound offensive, but I have built many mid-10 sec. TR's including a few of my own, and your combination is WAY different from the route I would choose.

Starting with the converter I would want more stall than a 3000 could provide for good response and spooling especially with the upgrade turbo.

I would never do Champion alum heads with stock rockers even if you could open up the pushrod passages for enough clearance?

You may need custom push rods unless you are fortunate enough to find an existing pushrod of the specific length required?

Steep cam ramps are not used in mainstream turbo builds until you get into solid roller lifter billet cams which work well approaching 7000 RPM and above.

Your RPM range is close, but mid-10's usually are best at 5800-6000 if you plan to visit the track.

Normally I would spec a cam that was not exhaust biased as alum heads have excellent intake-to-exhaust flow ratios compared to iron heads, and do not need, or like, more exhaust duration.

I would select a 212/212 to work well for you.

In my case I must be correct when choosing the right combination of parts to perform to the desired performance and budget levels to assure that the customer's expectations are not just met, but exceeded.

There are probably other combinations that would work good for you and others, but this has done well for me with TR's at this level.

 

[forcefed3.8's]

You dont need a fast ramp cam. With good flowing aluminum heads, a stock cam will get you there without much trouble. A 206/206 will get you there and then some. A 212/212 or 210/210 will work too. No real difference in low end. Mid 10s doesnt need 5800 to 6000 rpm, a true 3000 stall at 0 boost 10" converter or looser will need that rpm to couple, but a small turbo wont be happy there.
My brothers Cutlass that has gone 10.00@132 has the set up I used to run in my 8 sec silver car. My best time back then was 10.87@125 on 25psi. This was with a Vigilante 0 pump and comp beehive springs and a trans that shifted at 5800. Now in the Cutlass, it has PAC 1201 springs, PTC converter, and a trans that shifts at 5400. The Cutlass is going through the traps at 5600@132, while my buick was at 5800@125. On 25psi, the Cutlass has gone 10.3@130. Pretty big difference for the same heads, cam, and turbo. Both on stock short blocks, and weighing in the 35xx range.

 

[2QUIK6]

Np Nick, the convertor is already on the car and I have been really happy with it's street manners, which is most important over any track downsides with it. I have had several other convertors on other cars that were around the same stall that I hated on the street. I was on the fence about going aluminum or irons on the heads and after talking to several well know folks and some in our local club that have built a few cars I decided on the aluminum heads, and will have them clearanced as needed. Was wanting to keep the stock appearance under the hood as much as possible but will have the opinion of switching to roller rockers later. I appreciate your input always!

Forced, I do not want a steep ramp cam at all, that's what I want to avoid as I don't need the added valve train stress or added noise. I can't even find an off the shelf 210/210 roller cam offered. All vendors have a 206/206 or a 206/210, 206/212, or 212/206 then they go up to 215 from there which would not be a good choice with my convertor. I think I could utilize a bigger cam than the 206/206 with the added displacement of the stroker, but not much over 210.

I think I can reach my goals with low rpms as I was running mid-11s and shifting at 4800-5000 with the stock long block before.

 

[bison]

If you have a <3600lb car, 9.5" PTC, 29" tires or 3.23 gears you can get it done with under 5500rpm. Assuming you mean GT 35r compressor and stage 5 turbine you can get it done with the current turbo also. Not sure what a GT 61 is. The cam duration at .050" doesn't mean anything really. There isn't much going on on there. -12 to -10 overlap at .050" if there's more overlap at .050" than that the cam is wrong for what you want. The converter, gearing, and track time will have the biggest effect on what you want to do.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[forcefed3.8's]

Most of the available cams have soft lobes. The 224 Weber sells and 214 full throttle sells have more aggressive lobes. There is also a high lift more aggressive 206 weber used to have listed. I would run a 212/212. The cams you are losting are really splitting hairs, and the added stroke does little, it is mainly for bragging. Any of the listed cams will hit your goal. You will have way more needed to hit mid 10s.

 

[2QUIK6]

Thanks for the input bison, I do have 29" tires currently. The GT6131e is about 10 years old, built by Presion, I was one of the first to test that turbo that Harry put together, he had sent me 3 or 4 turbos to test with the combination I had at the time as he was experimenting with smaller exhaust wheels on the 61s, tested a few stock replacements also on my TTA I had at the time. I see folks with this turbo now in their sig so I guess he made a few of them. Yeah I figured I was making all of this a little too complex getting caught up in the different cam sizes/combos, then the billet issues just complicates it further. Off the shelf kit of a 206/210 will work fine it appears for what I want and the street manners I want. Weber also offers custom grinds so I suppose those that have talked about 210/210 or 212/212 combos must have went custom grind as I am not finding any off the shelf rollers in that size offered.

 

[2QUIK6]

Looks like I have settled on a 210/210 austemper cam with mild ramp lobes, parts list is coming together finally. Thanks for all the help!

 

[Mike T]

I can't even find an off the shelf 210/210 roller cam offered

I got mine from Dan @ DLS.

 

[V6POWER]

I run a flat tappet 208 on my stock appearing combo that shifts around 5400 - 5500 rpm. I only run 1/8 mile but the car should be capable of 10 second 1/4 mile based on 1/8 mile et. See sig.

 

[Mike Licht]

the extra exhaust bias on cams does not come from EX port flow (that's NA thinking) but from the improvement in turbine wheels where the wheel can take it. Whats really important is when we open and close the valves in relation to the piston, That is what determine LS if you or your engine guy is telling you one LS is better chances are he does not know why or how much overlap the cam has at .050. cylinder pressure, dynamic compression and drive pressure is what we want to control. Almost all current turbo cam thinking have more exhaust since the turbine wheels got so much better. Once we started to understand the relationships between opening the exhaust and different turbine wheels things got better. While the cams we used 10 years ago still work there are things that work better, change is good. Austemper cams are now being used for solid roller applications. Everyone is so worried about the front cover and the cam sensor hold being off, but have no problem throwing in a billet cam that had to de machined so it would not destroy the block, along with 3 or 4 parts on the snout that all position the drive gear. Then when things don't line up they blame the cover, SMH

 

[Pronto]

I ran the GT6131 on a stock engine, heads, cam, etc. Was able to go 11.3. With heads that flowed I think high tens would have been easy, add a small cam and mids obtainable. I was just running a 2800 stall Pat's converter and locked it at about 100.

 

[bison]

the extra exhaust bias on cams does not come from EX port flow (that's NA thinking) but from the improvement in turbine wheels where the wheel can take it. Whats really important is when we open and close the valves in relation to the piston, That is what determine LS if you or your engine guy is telling you one LS is better chances are he does not know why or how much overlap the cam has at .050. cylinder pressure, dynamic compression and drive pressure is what we want to control. Almost all current turbo cam thinking have more exhaust since the turbine wheels got so much better. Once we started to understand the relationships between opening the exhaust and different turbine wheels things got better. While the cams we used 10 years ago still work there are things that work better, change is good. Austemper cams are now being used for solid roller applications. Everyone is so worried about the front cover and the cam sensor hold being off, but have no problem throwing in a billet cam that had to de machined so it would not destroy the block, along with 3 or 4 parts on the snout that all position the drive gear. Then when things don't line up they blame the cover, SMH

...and blocking oil to the cam gear, and cam sensor/oil pump drive.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[forcefed3.8's]

I am very happy with the 210/215 roller from full throttle.
A friend of mine has been 10.3 with a stock cam and ported iron heads. It was even breaking up in the top of 3rd because of valve float. With less rpm, who knows how fast it would have gone. This is a full weight GN with a 10 point roll cage in it, and a slow 1.6 60'.