big stuff vrs gen 7? what is the big stuff like anyways?

[1320]

Lots of talk about the big stuff, but what is it like? Heck I don t even know what else it could offer comparde to a gen 7?

I guess its John Meanys deal though right? That certainly builds a lot of expectation and respect. Isn t the gen 7 at least to a point from meany as well?or was that fel pro or speed pro, or what fast is today?

The selling point of the gen 7 is its a known business, likely to be around in 5 years, 10 years . What does the gen 7 sacrifice compared to a big stuff system?

processor speeds? boost control? etc.....price wise they are close.......with in a couple hundred bucks....

I m looking at one for a ls1 but younever know I might consider
one for my tta too.

 

[1320]

hhhmmmmm.......veiwed almost 50 times and I guess no one really knows? Surprises me that no one spoke up and talked about the screens, ease of tuning, options etc....

All I ve been able to learn is that the big stuff system gen 2 and gen 3 is using the bocsh sensor, which is about 100$ and generally looked down on compared to the ntk sensors. I know both the gen 7 and fast use ntk and that the sensor costs are 300 to 500 ussually.

Because of the sensor difference it appears that the software cost of the gen 7 ( from costs I ve been quoted) is actually less....then the big stuff. Yes the Big stuff system is less money but not the difference of the sensor cost.

In my mind, the wideband sensor is perhaps the most important part of the entire system, I know that the more $$ doesn t mean its better, but for some reason the ngk is the prefered sensor for most companies, I wonder why? anybody?

Why are some selling sensors for 900 and some for 407 and they appear to be the same? Do some gen 7 use different wide bands than others? Whats with the type 1 and type 2 anyways?

 

[bruce]

Looks to all still be classified.

A new system, and no one has demoware, no listing of anything specific about it, and the manual is weeks away.

 

[TURBO 6]

I bought a FAST system because I couldn't find any info on the Big Stuff.

 

[64duece]

Infancy as a company. Product is mature. It'll take time for the information to hit the net. Right now I'd say it's more like FAST vs Accel 7.

The current Gen1 system is using the L2H2 NTK sensor. The LSU4 (Bosch) is widely used in new cars today. Yes, it's cheaper however it's been benchmarked against L1H1 and Lab grade equipment with good results (.1 a/f hysterisis)

Cuurently, Gen 1 systems are ordered as SFI or B2B and specific to ignition type (IPU, HEI, TFI etc)

SFI includes individual cylinder fuel and timing control. Supports 1 programmable output.

B2B has fuel and e-fan controls.

The Gen3 has integrated PCM (for use w/ AOD-E, 4L60/80E etc) Also supports dual WBO2. If PCM is not used to drive trans, the unit can be configured as a datalogger. Will have the ability to record driveshaft, wheel speed etc. Multiple configurable inputs/outputs to control almost anything you wish.

Pricing is very good for the unit. Very competitive in the marketplace. The current Gen1 box is very supportive of turbo/supercharged setups. It lacks the nitrous controls other boxes may have.

As a side note, NTK offers three different sensors. L1H1 is the first and is used w/ FAST and many standalone WBO2 units (
$180) The next generation of that is the L2H2 ($???). Finally, there is the lab grade unit that you will find some of the better standalones using. Horiba, ECM and PCM all use the lab grade. It's abit expensive (about $400).

 

[1320]

Dennis, thanks for the info.

Can you explain what type 1 and type 2 differences are inregards to the gen 7?

 

[Nashty]

It plugs into a FAST harness exactly if that tells you if it's more like a FAST than a Gen 7.

I got mine and it looks alot like my old FAST system. It's got some other features such as the learning which looks to be pretty cool. Seems like all the other things from FAST are there but with a few pluses. No idea on the GEN 7 though, never used it before. I'll know alot better in a few weeks as I fire up my car for the first time. If Meaney supports it, which I don't really feel he is doing a good job of now, it's all through the vendors. It should be the best in my book. For now, the customer support is not the greatest (there is NOTHING on-line and no company to call even if you needed to) all support is through the vendor so get it from a good shop. Harry always did a good job for me with my GN so I bought the BS3 just because he supports it.

 

[Chuck Leeper]

?????

Kinda wondering about all the astronomically high prices being thrown out on these sensors....

Bosch LSU from 1st vwparts.com, [California..1-888-528-5280] has them listed at about $29.00...
0-258-007-057 has the 3 over 3 plug.
The -066 has the flat 6 pin plug on it.

Same price, last I knew.

We have the FAST, [3 yrs old] and a new Gen 7+.. Both are great units. It looks like the Gen7 is equipped w/ some nice features.. We are waiting to see the new, updated FAST for comparisons..
The "bottom feeder" is the Commander 950. What a PITA!!

Back under my injector bench...

 

[bruce]

As a side note, NTK offers three different sensors. L1H1 is the first and is used w/ FAST and many standalone WBO2 units (
$180) The next generation of that is the L2H2 ($???). Finally, there is the lab grade unit that you will find some of the better standalones using. Horiba, ECM and PCM all use the lab grade. It's abit expensive (about $400). [/B]

Actually currently, there looks to be 5 available in the US.

Not to mention the Horiba distributed one. And at last word I had, they were the sole distributor for the lab grade units. And using the Horibas, last I heard required a users end agreement.

 

[bruce]

Re: ?????

Originally posted by Chuck Leeper
Kinda wondering about all the astronomically high prices being thrown out on these sensors....

Bosch LSU from 1st vwparts.com, [California..1-888-528-5280] has them listed at about $29.00...
0-258-007-057 has the 3 over 3 plug.
The -066 has the flat 6 pin plug on it.

Same price, last I knew.

The NTKs have gone up in the last few months. At one point they ran out of the L1H1s and when the boat came in there looked to be an exchange rate error, and for a month or so they were 500-600 dollars. But, once past that they went back down.

 

[Doug F]

Chuck,
What is wrong with the Commander 950? It isn't intended to have the same features as something like the Gen VII, but considering the cost and that is has an internal datalogger, can use anyone's wideband O2 setup including Holley's, and has basically the same functionality as a FAST for less cost, it is a good system.

I've tuned plenty of cars from street to race that it works very well on.

And yes, there isn't a system for a GN, but it has many other applications.

 

[Chuck Leeper]

?????????

Originally posted by Doug F
Chuck,
What is wrong with the Commander 950? It isn't intended to have the same features as something like the Gen VII, but considering the cost and that is has an internal datalogger, can use anyone's wideband O2 setup including Holley's, and has basically the same functionality as a FAST for less cost, it is a good system.

I've tuned plenty of cars from street to race that it works very well on.

And yes, there isn't a system for a GN, but it has many other applications.

The datalogger is very poor compared to the FAST. There's no inj size input, creating more work if changing inj size. We don't like like it...

You like it, that's great. We are using the FAST system and now a Gen7+.. May be more bucks, but it seems more user friendly...

 

[Doug F]

I'm fine with your comments. With the injector changes, a simple mathmatical change of the entire map once gets you 90% of the way there.

The datalogger is similar to something like a racepak, and this year you get the internal datalogger as a standard feature.

When was the last time you used a C950? The new Pro software and firmware introduced this year has a lot of nice std. features as well as the availability of a NTK WB02 sensor at very reasonable costs.

I've tuned a few 900-1200 HP engines (along with many of your typical 400-600 HP) and seen engines tuned over 1500 HP very successfully and quickly.

I wouldn't call it a "bottom feeder", but a very economically priced alternative for people that don't want to spend what a FAST or Gen VII costs while still retaining most of their features..

 

[Chuck Leeper]

????????????

Try last week for last time w/ a 950.....
And I'm "ok" w/ your high performance tuning....
It's kinda like some folks like Budweiser, and others like Miller Lite...
I don't like the 950, and that's the end of that story.....

 

[bruce]

Originally posted by Doug F

And yes, there isn't a system for a GN, but it has many other applications.

In looking at the Holley site, it looks like the 950 TBI is compatible with the HEI module.
If that's the case, it's a simple code change to make it DIS friendly.

 

[64duece]

I've touched them all. Know what???? They all do the trick.

Big Stuff is a nice unit. What makes it really nice....price!!! It's not sporting N20 or Boost controls but. it gets the job done in a nice little package.

Chuck,
I'd have to agree w/ Doug. The Cmdr950 system is far from a "bottom feeder". The datalogger offers everything you'd want or need to look at when tuning. I was withing 3% correction within 5 pulls on the dyno on my deal. We consistenly made over 1500hp on back to back runs without issue.

I wouldn't trade it for any other box out there....cause it get's the job done!