Are BB turbos worth it?

[nullrout]

I am contemplating the ball bearing version of the Turbonetics CPT-66. My friend and fellow Buick enthusiast feels that the BB turbos aren't as durable as the journal bearing versions. He also tells me that it needs to be water cooled regardless what everyone says and that the CPT-66 sits so high that it won't have good waterflow and will overheat.

I'm not discounting convential wisdom but I'd like to hear from those of you running the BB turbonetics without water cooling. How have they held up? Are you happy? Would you have done anything different?

 

[BMF_Racing]

I am contemplating the ball bearing version of the Turbonetics CPT-66. My friend and fellow Buick enthusiast feels that the BB turbos aren't as durable as the journal bearing versions. He also tells me that it needs to be water cooled regardless what everyone says and that the CPT-66 sits so high that it won't have good waterflow and will overheat.

I'm not discounting convential wisdom but I'd like to hear from those of you running the BB turbonetics without water cooling. How have they held up? Are you happy? Would you have done anything different?

Water cooling will extend the life the the turbo and is strongly recomended on Turbonetics and Required on the Garret GT Dual Ball Bearing turbos (like the "R" Precision Turbos). Why not get a DBB setup over the single BB on Turbonetics?

I'll never have another non-BB turbo after having this DBB 67mm. :biggrin:

 

[BlackMetal]

I would not want a BB turbo without water cooling it. It depends on your goals but I think most guys can get away with a standard bearing turbo with the proper converter. If you are making the car as fast as possible, then of course, the ability to spool a larger turbo with a less-than-normal stall is ideal. If it's a street car, get a decent standard turbo and avoid the extra expense and plumbing. Don't forget you can't take advantage of a monster turbo without a monster engine to back it all up. Don't spend $1500 if you're just going to run 18lbs of boost, any standard turbo can handle that.

 

[nullrout]

Suppose I should have mentioned that my 87 T-Type is mostly street driven with trips to the track every once in awhile.

 

[conn84gn]

What mods are on your car now?

 

[vacuum 6]

He also tells me that it needs to be water cooled regardless what everyone says and that the CPT-66 sits so high that it won't have good waterflow and will overheat.

Talk to Jack. If I remember correctly he said the turbonetics 66 does not need H20 cool.

 

[BMF_Racing]

Suppose I should have mentioned that my 87 T-Type is mostly street driven with trips to the track every once in awhile.

We went from a stock turbo/intercooler to a GT Dbb 6776 and ESP FIMC and it has just as good street matters (98% street use) and spoolup as the stock set up. In fact the spoolup may be faster from a roll that the stock turbo with the 2800 L/U stall.

 

[cool 84]

We went from a stock turbo/intercooler to a GT Dbb 6776 and ESP FIMC and it has just as good street matters (98% street use) and spoolup as the stock set up. In fact the spoolup may be faster from a roll that the stock turbo with the 2800 L/U stall.

Are you running the same 2,800 stall with the 6776 or did you step it up a little? I'm about the pull the trigger on this turbo, still wondering about it's street manners. I only have a 2,800 stall right now and wondering if I should send it out to have the stall raised. I'm hoping the bigger motor may help...

 

[Fuelie600]

You don't need water cooling w/ T-Netics, and yes---they are worth the extra penny. You'll see the largest improvement on a street driven car, where you don't have time to build boost on the brake. Non BB turbos are like 8 track players ( outdated ). Call Jack, and stop listening to your friends BS.

 

[SGRIM]

Simply put it is all about your goals with the car. If primarly a street car, yes I would go BB. If a race car mostly with a properly matched converter it may not be nessecary. They do not make more HP, it is all in spooling time. For my next "street" turbo it will be BB:biggrin:

 

[nullrout]

What mods are on your car now?

Its mostly stock...Walbro 340 pump, modified stock regulator to up the fuel pressure, cold air intake, 3" down pipe...I know that turbo won't rull for crap right now...but within 6 months I plan on a 3200-3400 l/u conveter, ported heads, 60lb injectors, alky, 3.5 ls1 MAF and a hotter cam.

 

[nullrout]

Talk to Jack. If I remember correctly he said the turbonetics 66 does not need H20 cool.

I did, and that is what he said...it doesn't need water cooling but you can do it if you want...i was wondering what people have done...like has it ran fine without water or are most people water cooling as extra insurance?

 

[nullrout]

You don't need water cooling w/ T-Netics, and yes---they are worth the extra penny. You'll see the largest improvement on a street driven car, where you don't have time to build boost on the brake. Non BB turbos are like 8 track players ( outdated ). Call Jack, and stop listening to your friends BS.

Thats what I was thinking...but I needed validation

 

[PaCemkr86]

after going BB, ill NEVER go back to non-ball bearing turbo

 

[conn84gn]

A TE44 or TA49 or others "small" turbos with ALKY are a nice upgrade and you can buy all that for almost the price of the BB. and still run 11's
Unless you have more upgrades like Big IC, Engine work, head work, correct convertor you may not see the gains,
The BBturbo can come later IMO
PS if the Turbo is designed to run water cooling then do it, or you will void the warranty

 

[bison]

I have never had a BB turbo fail on me for any reason. I have not found they are less durable than journal turbos. I only have experience with t-netics product. I have not tried Precision or any other BB units. For most i dont feel the added cost is worth it. With todays converter tech and these smaller 3 bolt turbos a high quality converter is easily able to take care of spooling and offers better coupling. IMO in the extra $ should be put towards a good converter. I feel most guys on here especially are losing a lot with low performance converter. They are losing spool and giving up mph up top. If you are running a 4 bolt then the BB units will add quite a bit of performance over a journal. Last year i ran a journal TE44 for a few days with a 2800 stall AC converter and it spooled so fast that there would be no benefit to having a quicker spool. It would go from 3 to 20+psi in under a second. The car would have run 120mph with that combo. I see a lot of guys wanting 6776 turbos but are asking what the gains are at 20 psi. If you are buying a turbo like that then you should have the turbo and the rest of the combo tied together. Id guess the 6776 vs. the 44 i had was worth almost nothing over the 44 i had at 20 psi. At 25-27 psi i guess it would be worth at least 4 mph over the 44 at 25-27 psi.

 

[bison]

A TE44 or TA49 or others "small" turbos with ALKY are a nice upgrade and you can buy all that for almost the price of the BB. and still run 11's
Unless you have more upgrades like Big IC, Engine work, head work, correct convertor you may not see the gains,
The BBturbo can come later IMO
PS if the Turbo is designed to run water cooling then do it, or you will void the warranty

Another good point here by conn84gn. You could by another bolt on for the same cost and gain even more. Ill take alky and an old school 44 vs a BB version of a 44 or a 3255 any day. Your talking about shaving nearly a second off with a combo like that vs. Maybe .5 if you run just the turbo and run it hard. Not to mention that you can prolong your smaller injectors with the alky supplementation.

 

[GNRick]

I finally got my Precision 6157e journal bearing turbo today. It will replace my TE62 with lots of shaft play. I have a Vigilante l/u 3000 stall converter, 009's and ATr front mount and ATR 3" downpipe. I'll report back after I get it installed, hopefully tomorrow!

 

[86BLACKT]

I think you are going to want to go with bigger than 60s with your mods(or future mods). Think ahead and only buy parts once if possible. And since it appears you are going with Jack's turbo...I would listen to him!! He also told me that Turbonetics CPT66BB does not need water coling.

 

[KWIKR 1]

after going BB, ill NEVER go back to non-ball bearing turbo

Yep !