Annual pull the motor day today. Update 7/03/16

[Mike T]

This is where a engine test stand would be useful.....I've made one in the past with a cheep Harbor Freight engine cart. To keep it simple you would need a carburetor and distributor.

Link with photos.

http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/threads/simple-engine-test-stand.408344/

 

[BARRACUDA1968]

I have also run both and you should not have an issue with either.i think you should carefully go through you build strategy and maybe give a call to some of the more experienced turbo buick engine builders. im not trying to offend,i have seen some of your previous posts and i know these cars can get frustrating.

Oh I agree 100% I've been through 2 engine builders and provided both of them phone numbers to experienced guy's on the forum who were willing to help out. Both engine builders seemed to second guess the advice given or didn't bother to call and I get stuck with a bill and I have to fix their mistakes. That is why I will be turning the wrenches and making a few phone calls when the time comes. I don't have any desire to re-invent the wheel. I was very clear on both builds that I knew guy's that had already been to school so there's no need for us to go, make a phone call for advice. I hired these guy's because they do have the skilled hands I needed and the resources to get the job done. Both good guy's but sh&t get's messed up when you shoot from the hip. My second builder is willing to do whatever I need to get my motor going again. He lives an hour away and will sit beside me when I start putting the motor back together. I've known him for years and he's built me 2 nasty reliable small block Mopars that I've had zero issues with. I'll take him up on his gesture but we'll be following Buick protocol.

It's hard to ask a confident engine builder to take advice from someone else. Especially when they've had success doing their own thing. Both of the guy's I used are excellent known machinists and engine builders. These Buicks seem to defy some laws of physics I guess.

I've been through the ringer on this car but I know a lot more about how things work than I ever would have so that's the bright side.

 

[obrut]

I know how you feel, im going through my engine for the third time too. The first and second time were both done by "experts". .. never again. I also had the PTE eco roller pay for a cam twice deal from way back when.

I find it hard to believe that any of these cars ran more than a few thousand miles after leaving the factory. So many people have problems with these engine.

I use to love this car mostly for the drivetrain, now I kinda hate it. Ive owned mine for 20 years. I didnt drive it for about 7 years because i didnt even want to look at it. Its been apart for the last 1.5 years. Im almost done getting it back together.

I dont think mine will ever have a forth time for an engine rebuild. Good luck with yours, i hope you get it figured out.

 

[OhioC5]

I could help you get it to my guy and it would be the last time you had to pull it for mistakes. Well, unless you make some tuning mistakes. He can tune in house all you'd have to do is drop it in. Just a thought.

 

[BARRACUDA1968]

I could help you get it to my guy and it would be the last time you had to pull it for mistakes. Well, unless you make some tuning mistakes. He can tune in house all you'd have to do is drop it in. Just a thought.

I appreciate the offer. I still need to start tearing it down. It's sitting right where I parked the engine stand when we pulled it. Just no ambition to work on it. I'm kind of sick of it to be honest but I'll get motivated shortly. I feel a little bit like "obrut" at this point. I hadn't been jazzed up about a car in years until I finally got my GN. It's been the worst experience I've ever had owning a car and I've owned a lot of them.

I'm going to try and break the curse by doing all the work myself. Yes I will look for the reason the cometics leaked the oil. My suspicion is the basic design and how they were installed. Oil runs out of the head down to the lifter galley. Pools up on the top corners of the head gasket and sits, plus it's very easy for oil to seep in between the gasket layers during drain back process. I can spreads the exposed layers of the head gasket in the lifter galley very easy with a small screw driver. Now my builder used copper spray between layers per my request but did not use any silicone around the gaskets to prevent oil seeping during drain back. This is my opinion based on tracking the oil leaks with oil dye. I was able to stop the leaks down the back of the heads by brake cleaning the surface and applying the right stuff between the head and block with my finger starting at the back of the intake. Didn't matter, the oil just ran behind it and followed the metal head gasket to the lower corners of the head and dripped and also made it's way to the center of the head above the freeze plugs and dripped. Same scenario on the front of the motor. I re-torqued twice. The only time I noticed it slowing down is when I went to the track and ran the dog sh&t out of it. Leaking slowed way down for a while then right back to the way it was?? Why I don't know.

 

[TurboTdr3.8]

The only time I noticed it slowing down is when I went to the track and ran the dog sh&t out of it. Leaking slowed way down for a while then right back to the way it was?? Why I don't know.

The different metals aluminum and steel respond to different heat cycles , I having the same problem with my sbc stroker that has cometic head gaskets , oil coming from the intake valley and running down the layers of the gasket , I am like you I did not assemble the engine so I wonder if I do it what path may I take . good luck with yours

 

[BARRACUDA1968]

I finally got around to taking the heads off today.

Found some exhaust leaks that had to be minor.




This header flange is out of round.



Crank seal leaking with 1200 miles on it. 2nd one. My first build shot a head gasket but didn't milkshake the motor but there was moisture. That created a rust ring on my balancer after it sat for a while. I cleaned up the balancer with scotchbrite but wonder if I need to do a better job? Might be why I'm eating seals?





I'm using a -10 under chain so I'm a little short. I left the cover on until I figure out a way to measure how far off center I am. I would think being off a hair would eat a seal.



And now for the whole reason I pulled the motor, leaky cometics. Just oil no coolant. They were separated and copper sprayed be fore install.






Every layer is soaked with oil. I'm not real sure where I am going from here. I'm not going to use Cometics again. Not because they're not good because I use them on other motors. It's because I'm unlucky and I'll never get them to seal. I am open to ideas.

I plan to do all the work myself this time so I'll be looking for advice as I go.

I plan to re-use my head bolts
Thinking about the RLC oil pan?
New fuel lines this go around.
Going to get the Turbo saver

That's about it for right now. I'm going to take some measurements again to calculate compression and head gasket thickness. I thought my TA heads were supposed to be 49cc chambers but now their website say's 46?? I'll get them measured to be sure.

So other than cometic what head gaskets are you guy's running with aluminum heads on a 109? What is a good compression ratio do I want to shoot for? I'm 95% street. This motor was targeted at 8.8 and it ran real good at 23 psi. I hated to tear it apart but can't stand the oil leaks.

Brett

 

[ZNix]

I decided to go with the RJC setup and a nice set of ARP head studs on my new aluminum headed build. These gaskets compress to 0.035 thickness. Not sure what your Cometic thickness was. I used Loctite 567 to seal the studs, ARP moly lube to torque them down. I checked the torque three times. Once after 3 hours, once after 6 hours, then 24 hours. 24 hours should no change. Here are a few pictures showing the install process of these gaskets. Hope this helps.

 

[ZNix]

It looks like you used Earl's bolt kit for the timing cover? Could you please send me a picture of how you did the crank sensor?

Thank you

 

[larrym]

Don't the instructions call for ultra black with studs in the RJC install.

 

[ZNix]

Don't the instructions call for ultra black with studs in the RJC install.

I used this 567 stuff before. It works great!

 

[m3x1c0]

By no means am I super knowledgeable but if you are streeting the car I'd stay away from the RJC gaskets. I cant remember the HG set I have but they will be the weak link should anything go wrong. Rather blow that out then the bottom of the block. My engine was built about a year and a half ago and I have quite a few miles on it. No major oil leaks and runs great driving almost daily. Did nothing too special with this build, studs, ARP hardware where it mattered, billet mains etc. Competent builder is the most important thing it seems. Something seems wrong with the people who have consistent engine issues. If it isn't the tune then it has to be one of the million things that could be off when putting the engine together.

 

[ZNix]

Well, he was running a Cometic MLS gasket before. That would be just as unforgiving as the RJC set-up I believe. The fuse idea is great to a point. If you are looking to build a higher compression motor, then the nearly .075 thick gaskets won't do. They are also not as strong as these gaskets when really pushing the motor, higher cylinder pressures will overcome the gasket eventually. You just have to be good with your tune! Which you should be anyway... Because even though the gaskets make a good fuse, protecting the bottom end, the coolant and graphite in the motor afterwards won't be as nice to the bearings and other wear surfaces..

 

[bison]

Well, he was running a Cometic MLS gasket before. That would be just as unforgiving as the RJC set-up I believe. The fuse idea is great to a point. If you are looking to build a higher compression motor, then the nearly .075 thick gaskets won't do. They are also not as strong as these gaskets when really pushing the motor, higher cylinder pressures will overcome the gasket eventually. You just have to be good with your tune! Which you should be anyway... Because even though the gaskets make a good fuse, protecting the bottom end, the coolant and graphite in the motor afterwards won't be as nice to the bearings and other wear surfaces..

Anyone who uses the fuse explanation as their choice for a head gasket selection should leave the engine close to stock or have the $$$ and hire the correct people to assemble and tune for them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[earlbrown]

That 'fuse' thing is a pet peeve with me too. It's slightly worse that claiming ''freeze plugs'' are there for freeze protection.

It looks like you used Earl's bolt kit for the timing cover? Could you please send me a picture of how you did the crank sensor?

Thank you

From the crank sensor it goes: big washer -nut- small washers for steel intercooler bracket -nut- big washers for plastic ALT wire loom.

The top bolt is just the solid threaded fastener with a big washer.


Then, if your car is like most of ours you have the option to move some stuff around to help the intercooler sit nice and square. On my car I changed the order a little to try and square up my Chinese GBP SLIC.

 

[m3x1c0]

Anyone who uses the fuse explanation as their choice for a head gasket selection should leave the engine close to stock or have the $$$ and hire the correct people to assemble and tune for them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I did both and thats what was explained to me by my engine builder anyways.

 

[ZNix]

That 'fuse' thing is a pet peeve with me too. It's slightly worse that claiming ''freeze plugs'' are there for freeze protection.



From the crank sensor it goes: big washer -nut- small washers for steel intercooler bracket -nut- big washers for plastic ALT wire loom.

The top bolt is just the solid threaded fastener with a big washer.


Then, if your car is like most of ours you have the option to move some stuff around to help the intercooler sit nice and square. On my car I changed the order a little to try and square up my Chinese GBP SLIC.

Thanks Earl! I appreciate it. I really don't want to hijack this thread, so feel free to PM me the answer. Does anything go before the crank sensor? I cannot remember for the life of me. Right now I have the stud in the block, then a nut and washer holding the cover on, then the crank sensor, then basically as you described above. I haven't put the balancer on yet, it was getting clear coated when I was last home.

 

[20psiofevil]

What's the pcv system look like? I blew out my rear pan seal and have my pan off at the moment trying to reseal it. I am almost positive my issue is inadequate ventilation.

 

[BARRACUDA1968]

Once I get my compression figured out I may check in to the RJC gaskets if I can use a .035 Are the RJC's one metal gasket?

I don't really care about the fuse theory although it's a sound idea that I won't argue over. I built this motor to run it hard and that equates to a lot of cylinder pressure so I want something a little stronger than a stock gasket. I have seen cometics blow and not bend rods and scatter parts etc.

I've believe I can tune my car well enough to keep me out of trouble short of a fuel/alky failure etc.

I'm still scratching my head as to why I'm eating crank seals? I need to get that figured out before I go much farther. Like I said I'm 10 under on the chain so maybe I'm too off center in the timing cover?? If so I can either shit can the block and start over or buy a T/A performance cover to simplify changing the seal every 3000 miles.

 

[BARRACUDA1968]

What's the pcv system look like? I blew out my rear pan seal and have my pan off at the moment trying to reseal it. I am almost positive my issue is inadequate ventilation.

PCV system is golden. I also run a oil catch can and it's just about bone dry all the time. This motor has little to no blow by. My oil breathers are vented 100% open and they stay pretty dry too.