a 9.50 combo with a 109 block???????

l-floyd3

Member
Joined
Jan 31, 2007
i I recently bought 86 gn rolling chassis with the following parts
9inch ford
3.90 gear
spool
strange axles
wild wood rear disc brakes
air bag on the right rear
alum drive shaft
turbo 400
roll cage
line lock
b&m shifter ????????



heres the engine that i had built in the late 90s it only has 9miles on it
30 over dished pistons hyperutectic (bad choice of 16 year old kid )
balanced
gn 210 cam from poston (cant remember all specs its been 10yrs)
port matched stock heads and intake
with LT1 valve springs


i know i need alot more than what i got to get to the 9.50 range when
i had that engine built my goal was low 11s high 10s
but things changed
what parts do you guys recommend as far as
turbo
inter cooler
injectors
fuel pumps
heads
cam
tourqe converter
intake manifold
down pipe
exhaust
and places to have it tuned (im not scared to drive to the right pepole )
im located in iowa .

what do you guys think about that 4.1 none stage engine as a plate form
our is it possiable to get to the 9.50s using a 109 block with out runnig over my crank shaft .
any help would be greatly appreciated thanks luke
 
turbo>>>>70GT series or larger
inter cooler>>>>PT&E or RJC mega cooler
injectors>>>>96's or larger
fuel pumps>>>Aeromotive or Weldon
heads>>>>Stage II or Champion aluminum
cam>>>big roller
tourqe converter>>>>9" n/l
intake manifold>>>ported Champion
down pipe>>>>4"
exhaust>>>anything at least 3"
and places to have it tuned (im not scared to drive to the right pepole )
im located in iowa .

what do you guys think about that 4.1 none stage engine as a plate form
our is it possiable to get to the 9.50s using a 109 block with out runnig over my crank shaft .
any help would be greatly appreciated thanks luke[/QUOTE]

You can take a 109 block there with the right parts....girdle, caps, oiling, etc...There are a few guys running in the 9's with a 109 block...you might want to talk to them for insight.
 
Im probobly going to get yelled at because I have not been around long enough, but from what I have seen you will need a few things to run safe consistant 9.50s with a 109 block.

I would start with a stroker kit... it will just make your life easier. Full Throttle has them. Heads race ported GN1s or whatever AZgn sells, I would also match them up with their headers at the same time. You need a BIG roller cam, and and BIG stall. Go with a roller, life will be easier... RJC has a nice intercooler. You also will need ATLEAST a 3.5in dp and the bigger the better. I dont know if there have been any cars in the 9s with Alky, but thats might be worth investigating especially if you will drive this car on a daily basis...

I dont know much about the turbos or fueling requirements that will take you that fast so someone else will have to tell you that.

To be real honest, 10.50s are a HELL of a lot easier to do and cost a LOT less cash(several thousands). Also a good deal of the 10.50 cars are still streetable, and I know of one thats a daily driver. If you have an unlimited cash flow then go for 9.50s though and good luck!
 
9.50s no way.

Start all over if U want to go that fast. A 109 block will not survive very long making 9.50 passes unless u are the worlds greatest tuner, and even then, U might not like the longevity of the build. Girdle, steel crank, rods, diamond pistons, billet roller cam, real good ported heads, -8 fuel line, big fuel pump (like a weldon) and of course a whole bunch of suspension work. I would start with 10.80 goal, then work ur way faster as U become more familiar with the cars.
 
Someone made a pass i think in vegas a few months ago with a 6109 block-8.98! i think maybe Cal was driving?
 
Yes, they said that 109 cost more to build than a Stage2. So maybe $20K+ for that engine? Plus that car had a lot of the Buick communities best in the pits. Call up DLS and tell him you want a 9.50 109. He can give you the run down.
 
It would be really cool to install a 350 Buick V8 engine along with a Borg Warner S400 turbo. It would be much cheaper than the V6 and you'd still be keeping it real with an All Buick Buick.

Alternatively, you could also do the same thing with a traditional Chevy LS or even Gen I SB with the same turbo.
Kevin
 
Someone made a pass i think in vegas a few months ago with a 6109 block-8.98! i think maybe Cal was driving?

It was not in Vegas, it was here in Phoenix with Cal driving Dick Kereny's car that has a AZGN/Zimmerman Racing 109
block.

To run consistant 9.50's with a 109 block in a full-bodied GN, be prepared to spend LOTS of $$$$$!:biggrin:

Cheaper to do it with a stage block or TA alum block.
 
Here is the link.

http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/turbo-lounge/203987-record-has-been-written-109-8s.html

Here's my O2's worth.

With the new DBB version of the PT70 GT-Q now available, you won't need to run as high a stall converter as people in the past have had to run, so bye bye converter slippage when running a 9" non l/u 4000-4200 converter. So a good 3500 flash stall lock up 9.5" converter should work very well. A 109 block can survive mid 9's with todays technology, head clamp kits, stroker cranks, block girdles, and you will need some form of roller cam. Whether hydraulic roller or solid. You don't have to go crazy with the size tho. There have been a lot of people in the past who have run into the mid 9's with a decently sized cam. Good flowing aluminum heads are a must, ported and matched intake or aftermarket intake with larger t-body and upper plenum. Aftermarket headers, 3.5" downpipe, 3" dual or 3.5" single exhaust are the norm. Aftermarket Engine Management system like the FAST XFI or the Big Stuff 3 will work, and I'm sure it won't be much longer before we hear about more people getting the job done with the MAFT Pro and Gen II setups that utilize the stock computer. Larger fuel lines (either -10 feed with a -8 return, or -8 feed and stock return) external fuel pump from Weldon. Don't skimp out here, as it will come back to haunt you. Weldon DB2015 will get it done and can be driven on the street. You will just have to change the fuel filter more frequently if driven a lot on the street with pump gas. Alky system will work. Injectors...
84# Delphi injectors will support up to 1000 fwhp when maxed out. To run mid 9's at 138-145mph in a full weight Turbo Buick (3550-3650#) you're gonna need to make between 840-870 flywheel hp. Which just so happens to be the hp range of what a PT70 GT-Q 3-bolt turbo is rated to support. A good front mount intercooler from the likes of RJC, Cottons Performance or BA Performance will be required if you intend to race in any Buick specific heads up race class as none allow air to liquid intercoolers.
Suspension... There are tons of posts on here that discuss this topic, so I'll leave that one alone.

My fantasy street combo.
If I ever find a money tree or win the lottery, this would be the combo I would build for a street strip terror. I would find an '87 black out trim Turbo T with buckets, build a 248 CI 109 block stroker setup with all the Top Secret ingredients. A set of fully ported Champion GN-1 aluminum heads and intake, RJC head clamping kit, 70mm t-body, 230/230 Hydraulic Roller cam, block girdle, RJC pullies, Razors Alky system with dual nozzles, PTE Oil filtration kit, DBB PT74 GT-Q turbo and a .68 A/R T4 Tangential style turbine housing, water and coolant line kits, a Tial 44mm external wastegate off the crossover/up pipe for boost control, with the dump routed back into the downpipe. TA Performance T4 flange headers in SS and coated. RJC big FM IC, Griffin aluminum radiator with dual Spal fans, 3.5" downpipe and 3.5" single exhaust, some 84# injectors with a Weldon DB2105 pump, Weldon 2040 regulator, sumped stock tank, -10 feed line, -8 return, a fully rollerized TH400 transmission with trans brake, JW bell housing and TCI scatter shield. HR Parts tranny mount and conversion kit, after market shifter in factory console, carbon fiber driveshaft with loop, 9" 3500 flash stall converter, 8.5" factory rear end with 30 spline axles and an Eaton posi unit, 3.42 gears, LPW rear end cover with axle tube brace kit, c-clip eliminators, HR Parts rear upper and lower bars and sway bar, dual air bags, HR Parts air bag spacers, 90/10 shocks up front, no front sway bar, aerospace disc brakes all around with a Power master, lighten the car up to 3550# with driver using fiberglass parts, light weight wheels, (skinnies and 10's with slicks for the track, 5" and 10's for the street with DOT tires) aluminum bumper struts, FAST XFI system, back pressure gauge with spring loaded check valve. 10 pt cage with belts and a fire suppression system. After all, that 109 block ain't gonna last forever.
Sorry to ramble on. It's just my case of Racecaritis acting up again. But it should run consistent mid 9's.
HTH

Patrick
 
Yes, they said that 109 cost more to build than a Stage2. So maybe $20K+ for that engine? Plus that car had a lot of the Buick communities best in the pits. Call up DLS and tell him you want a 9.50 109. He can give you the run down.

No offense, but I don't buy that statement at all after looking for the longest time. Many will disagree, but I don't see how. Look at RJC for crying out loud.
 
It would be really cool to install a 350 Buick V8 engine along with a Borg Warner S400 turbo. It would be much cheaper than the V6 and you'd still be keeping it real with an All Buick Buick.

Alternatively, you could also do the same thing with a traditional Chevy LS or even Gen I SB with the same turbo.
Kevin

Yeah, I remember getting thread locked way back from my disagreement on this matter.:biggrin: The 6 means something.:p
 
No offense, but I don't buy that statement at all after looking for the longest time. Many will disagree, but I don't see how. Look at RJC for crying out loud.


I was replying to the guy talking about the 8 second 109. Or did RJC pull off a 8? Last I heard he was in the 9.6-9.7 range?
 
I agree that a StageII or TA block would be the best way to accomplish your goals with a V6. Personally, I think it would be MUCH cheaper and easier in the long run to install a V8 in the car with a turbo 400 and a brake. Twin turbo a SBC or GenIII small block and you will be much farther ahead. (the Buick 350 V8 is WAY too weak to make it work) StageII's are getting harder to find and take alot of money to run reliably in the mid nines. Your car will have to have a certified chassis, YOU will also have to be licensed to run faster than 10.00. The cost of running faster than 10.00 goes up exponentially! If you don't have a deep wallet, and have great tuning/building capabilities, you will go broke REAL fast trying to get your Buick V6 (109 block) to run consistant 9.50's. It can be done, but it's only possible with GREAT tuning/fabricating abilities or a deep wallet to pay someone to build/tune it for you. Good luck and keep us posted on your progress.
 
With a stock block? My answer is a lot $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Low 10's not a problem these days, Though its much more reliable in a lighter car. 9.50's, a big problem if anything little goes wrong.
It would be a hell of a lot cheaper with a Stage block. Even a stage 1 if you can find one. Also a lighter car would be very beneficial. The 109 is junk fro high performance and should only be used at the hp level when required to by the rules if a racer runs in a class requiring it. Otherwise your playing with fire in an unforgiving hobby. You will have it much easier with more head clamping force and strong bottom end provided by a stage block.
 
I was replying to the guy talking about the 8 second 109. Or did RJC pull off a 8? Last I heard he was in the 9.6-9.7 range?

Oh my bad. I did think that RJC had posted a link to someone that ran a 8.98 or something. I could be way off, but I thought someone did run that on a 109 with girdle of course. The thing I like to see is that RJC's 9 sec 109 block uses the girdle with stock mains. How long it will hold up I don't know. I will hit low 10s at best and thats all I really want and need until I can afford a stage 2 motor. I guess if your going low 9's and faster the stage 2 is the best way. But I think the girdle has made LOTS go faster. Hell what do I know, I haven't driven my car for 4 years. Oh well, in the near future, I WILL get a stage 2. But for now, I will try to go for a 109 stroker.
 
Yes, the link on RJC's site is for the Zimmerman racing built 109. Nick Micale said a stage 2 was cheaper. :p Plus he had Cal Hartline tuning and driving. And I believe some sort of "custom" turbo from Precision. I could imagine the time and money it took to make that run. :biggrin: Awesome feat though.
 
many more question to come but ill start with this

when i started with this thread i was thinking of 9.50 as my stopping point or
an ultimate goal . my thing is i just dont want to buy parts just to take the parts of the car for my next stepping stone id like to use things like injectors intercooler stuff that might be good from the 10.50 range to the 9.50 i dont want to buy injectors that would only be good to the 10.50 at best if my goal is somthing else . im trying to find parts that i know i could use if decide to go to a stage in the future but i doubt that i will because the 05 and up
mustang GT has bitten me pretty hard i fill ford has hit the nail o the head with that car but the BUICK by far is my 2nd love next to my kid and the new stang is 3rd sweet car .but any how back to buick bizz i just dont to buy somthing that will hurt more than help me so all suggetion and advice is greatly apprecated thanks luke . i will shut up know
 
tuners

oh yeah i almost forgot who would be good for to tunning this car here in the midwest around iowa
 
I'm hoping for 9's and I'm very close with stock MAF no screens, Irons, and ECU. TTchip. 72lb inj still using only one pump of two Red's sx's Full weight with a glass front bumper 6 point cage, TH 400, 3500 stall, GTQ-70 85. RJC girdle with stock mains etc. etc. I know once I get R1's, XFI,BB74 look out after BG. ;)
 
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