'83 T-type project update.

[Turbo-Rich]

I started tearing down my 'T to replace the headers & do some spring cleaning/re-routing. It's been slow going but I'm lucky if I can get an hour of work in on it a day. I was dreading doing this job for a while but I found so many other things wrong while tearing her down I'm glad I didn't put it off longer. Lots of suprises, both good & bad.
First, the good news. The guy I bought the car off of had the heads professionally removed & rebuilt & it seems that that guy used anti-cease on most of the bolts when he put it back together. Nice suprise!
Now, all the messed up stuff I've found...so far.
1. coolant line was collapsed (maybe thats why she was getting hot lol
2. Oil line to the turbo has a 1/2" crack in it.
3. wastegate to lower manifold vacc. lins BADLY cracked.
4. wastegate to upper manifold vacc. hose unhooked & hanging.
5. "open" vacc. port on rear of carb.
6. Vacc. lines at the smog selinoids hooked up grossly wrong.
7. PVC valve is stuck in the intake
8. Wrong valve covers. No breathers, holes plugged with cork
9. clip missing from wastegate rod
10. smog equipement FULL of rust.
11. Carb's secondaries wont move more than a 1/16 of an inch-ouch
12. Eng. ground strap disconnected.
13. Carb. gasket leaking at the rear.
14. R44 plugs gapped @ .045 on pass. side of motor &
R43 plugs gapped @ .040 on drivers side.
That's all I can remeber off hand.
Some pretty goofy stuff going on here!
I'm adding alc. injection & a few other goodies while I'm at it.
I have a few other ideas I want to try but we'll wait & see how they turn out.
Didn't B4black have some suggestions for vacc. hose routing & etc.? Rich Now would be a good time

 

[b4black]

2. You could bend yor own, or buy one from In-line tube or Classic tube.

3. This is the pressure line that controls the WG actuator. You would be loosing pressurized air and fuel thru the cracks. Even with this line completely unhooked, I would doubt you could have overboosted. The restriction from the stock exhaust and the air cleaner basically limit boost at 9 psi anyway.

This is the line I would reroute. Instead of under the turbo, run it over the turbo. Then if you want to change it or install a in-line relief valve later, you can. But to do this, the right angle fitting on the compressor foot would need to point up. There is also another boss on the foot that can be tapped. Then the WG actuator could come off one port, and the boost gauge and MAP off the other. (I can't take credit for this, it's the way that Buick did it on the earlier turbos. Why they changed it, I don't know.) To do this, the turbo would need to come off.

4. This vacuum line is not needed, and is better to be removed and plugged at the plenum in my opinion. The vacuum side of the actuator often leaks.

7. Might be another reason to pull the turbo. The PCV valve grommet is probably rock hard.

8. The right side should have no holes. The left side needs a hole at the very front. There are some factory aluminum covers that would work, but you would need to add the hole to the left one. The turbo needs to come off to change them (or the gaskets).

I would be willing to bet the reason they are wrong is because the engine was changed with a NA long block. Don't worry too much about this. The NA block can take a lot of abuse, but keep in mind the pistons may not handle as much knock as the turbo ones.

9. Get an aligator clip. Easy on, easy off.

11. What's keeping them from opening? Is it the air valves (top) or throttle plates (bottoms) that aren't opening? The throttle plates are sometimes supposed to be held closed by the linkage on the right side of the carb.




Hope this helps.

 

[Turbo-Rich]

Originally posted by b4black


3. This is the pressure line that controls the WG actuator. You would be loosing pressurized air and fuel thru the cracks. Even with this line completely unhooked, I would doubt you could have overboosted. The restriction from the stock exhaust and the air cleaner basically limit boost at 9 psi anyway.

Overboosting isn't a problem, lol. The boost light was lucky to see red.


4. This vacuum line is not needed, and is better to be removed and plugged at the plenum in my opinion. The vacuum side of the actuator often leaks.

It can join my old exhaust system in the garbage then.

7. Might be another reason to pull the turbo. The PCV valve grommet is probably rock hard.

Already off the car & I have a low mile rebuilt one to take it's place.

8. The right side should have no holes. The left side needs a hole at the very front. There are some factory aluminum covers that would work, but you would need to add the hole to the left one. The turbo needs to come off to change them (or the gaskets).

I know, I hate that! Lotta work just to change VC's.

I would be willing to bet the reason they are wrong is because the engine was changed with a NA long block. Don't worry too much about this. The NA block can take a lot of abuse, but keep in mind the pistons may not handle as much knock as the turbo ones.

I don't think so. The vc's that were on the car are Edlebrock chome ones. The guy I bought it from said he had them put on when the heads were redone. The correct origional vc's are in the trunk & will be going back on the car.

9. Get an aligator clip. Easy on, easy off.

Yeah, luckily I have a few extra ones one my other turbo's.

11. What's keeping them from opening? Is it the air valves (top) or throttle plates (bottoms) that aren't opening? The throttle plates are sometimes supposed to be held closed by the linkage on the right side of the carb.


Both! I can physically completely depress the linkage & neither is opening. Same on & off the car. When (or why) are the throttle plates supposed to be held closed? I need to get D. Roe's book I guess. I've always been a Holley man. So, what would happen if I threw on a non- electric mech. secondary carb. & left the dist., ecm alone? I ask because I have an older Q-jet thats in good shape I could use foe tuning/troubleshooting.



Hope this helps.

SUre does, thanx Rich.

 

[Ttype83]

4. This vacuum line is not needed, and is better to be removed and plugged at the plenum in my opinion. The vacuum side of the actuator often leaks.

I have removed my as well with no ill affects

11. What's keeping them from opening? Is it the air valves (top) or throttle plates (bottoms) that aren't opening? The throttle plates are sometimes supposed to be held closed by the linkage on the right side of the carb.

Look at the bottom center of the right side, there is a small tab that will hold the secoundarys close when cold.
If you remove the choke, you can remove the tab.

I have doug's book, great source of info. I'm using it right now to rebuild the spare carb. My wife bought it for my B-Day

7. Might be another reason to pull the turbo. The PCV valve grommet is probably rock hard.

Mine is rock hard I thought about trying to remove it, but thought that some peices would fall into the intake. So I have add it to the tado list with the heads.

 

[b4black]

Originally posted by Turbo-Rich

Both! I can physically completely depress the linkage & neither is opening. Same on & off the car. When (or why) are the throttle plates supposed to be held closed? I need to get D. Roe's book I guess. I've always been a Holley man. So, what would happen if I threw on a non- electric mech. secondary carb. & left the dist., ecm alone? I ask because I have an older Q-jet thats in good shape I could use foe tuning/troubleshooting.

The air valves are sucked open by vacuum, so they won't open with the engine off. You should be able to easily open them by pokeing them with your finger. There should be just a little spring tension.

Like Jim just said, there is a tab that hold the throttle plates closed even though the linkage is moving. You should be able to push the tab aside with your finger and then open the throttle plates.

Q-jets can be confusing.

 

[b4black]

Originally posted by Ttype83
7. Mine is rock hard I thought about trying to remove it, but thought that some peices would fall into the intake. So I have add it to the tado list with the heads.

Been there, done that.

When the chunk fell into the engine, I ran to TB.com, asked what to do. "Don't worry, it lands on the valley pan and stays there. It's too big to make to the oil pan. You'll find it later when you rebuild the engine." What a relief. I think this happens to everyone.

Actually, I was able to later suck it out with a shop-vac. New grommets are available in the Motormite HELP section.

Replace the turbo drain grommet too.

 

[Turbo-Rich]

Originally posted by Ttype83

I have doug's book, great source of info. I'm using it right now to rebuild the spare carb. My wife bought it for my B-Day

Funny I bug Tonya for books/manuals all the time. It's sure a lot better than getting a razor on your B-day.

 

[Turbo-Rich]

Originally posted by b4black


The air valves are sucked open by vacuum, so they won't open with the engine off. You should be able to easily open them by pokeing them with your finger. There should be just a little spring tension.

Like Jim just said, there is a tab that hold the throttle plates closed even though the linkage is moving. You should be able to push the tab aside with your finger and then open the throttle plates.

Q-jets can be confusing.

I see the tab but it still didn't help much. Even pushing on the plates with a dowel & the tab depressed they wouldn't budge.
Blasted it with carb. cleaner & worked it back & forth. It'll come open now but it's not right. There's a line of buildup under the plates.
Pretty funny all the things you can find messed up when ya go looking. I don't really care what I find. I'm prepared for just about anything. I am the cars 3rd owner & it is a very pristeen car & I woulda bought it for what I got it for even if the motor was toast. There have been a few good suprises to. Like the 8.5 posi. I'm at the stage now I want to get eveything working & make sure things are up to snuff;iol pressure/compression/etc. before I start modifing/abusing it. It's also going to need a trans. sometime soon. Unlike Tonya, I'll probabley opt to get rid of the 200 4R & go with a TH350/400. I know all the arguements here, it's just a cost thing. I'm not to worried about losing O.D. or gas mileage. I live about 2 miles from work & everything is close here.
The local track (1/8th mi.) is only about a 15-20 min. drive also.
With it being an 1/8th mile track I could probabley benefit from a little more gear also. Anyway, I have a lot planned but it's gonna be done one mod at a time. Right now I'm busy correcting all the goofy B.S. thats been done to it in the past. If I run into anything major along the way I'll just replace/rebuild it with better/stronger. This is the car I've always wanted & I plan on keeping it for a long time. It'll all come together with time

 

[Ttype83]

Originally posted by Turbo-Rich


Funny I bug Tonya for books/manuals all the time. It's sure a lot better than getting a razor on your B-day.

LOL...We all knnnoow after seeing yooour pic that you don't use it. I have to shave everyday for work....it sucks. When I go on vacation I don't shave for 7 or 8 days..then it starts driviing me nuts and have to shave it off. I would like to grow my stash out though

Did you find the tab holding the secs closed?

 

[Ttype83]

Ok l type to slow... you found it.
Check out your local libary for dougs book, you never knnnnow they may have it.

 

[Freddie's Buick]

I once discovered that the secoundaries were'nt opening up correctly either. I cleaned it up and they still would jam up.

What it was was that someone had attemted a rebuild. Unscrewed the butterfly plates and screwed them back on.

After unscrewing they neglected to align the plates on the butterfly rod in the closed position and to allow for play. This caused binding and improper openining.

Poor fella probably hated Q-Jets from there on cause this thing would never run right like that.

*On the downside..... Yesterday some kid 's basketball bounced upon my front windshield cracking it. I am deeply aggrevated. It's not the cost....(It's cheap $40.00). It's the time involved. I would pay someone else to do it but I am so anal that if it ain't done right someone will die! So I am stuck doing it. All I wanted to do was concentrate on my rebuild...now this...ARHG!!

 

[Turbo-Rich]

Originally posted by Freddie's Buick

*On the downside..... Yesterday some kid 's basketball bounced upon my front windshield cracking it. I am deeply aggrevated. It's not the cost....(It's cheap $40.00). It's the time involved. I would pay someone else to do it but I am so anal that if it ain't done right someone will die! So I am stuck doing it. All I wanted to do was concentrate on my rebuild...now this...ARHG!!

DAMN kids!

 

[Turbo-Rich]

Happy Happy Joy Joy, Happy Happy Joy Joy

SHE LIVES! ! !


And she sounds DAMN good with only the downpipe connected
& I finally did my first burnout in my new garage, heheheh.



I'm going to take it out & drive it tomarrow,
then it's time to troubleshoot all the small leaks & b.s.
I know I'm going to need the crush gasket that goes between the d.p. & turbo exhaust outlet. I asked at Pep Boys & Advanced Auto & no luck. They prob. have it actually but to stupid to find it. I guess I'll try an exhaust shop next unless anyone else has a better idea? The threaded end of my fuel line (where it goes into the carb.) is slightly cracked. I need to find a nipple for the carb. then I'm adding an inline see~thru filter & braided steel line. I've covered everything else w.braided steel except for all the many miles of vacc. tube. I think the "kit" came with about 5' of vacc. line sleeve well, that's a start.

I also added my alc. kit finally.
I bought an NOS "fan spray" nozzle.
I installed it in the fact. vac. port on the top side of the carb. plenum with the fan spray angle pointed directly towards the turbo's impeller. I can adjust the amout(not pressure) of alc. I want to flow from a valve on the bottle.
I can't wait to try it out

 

[b4black]

TURBOCHARGER GASKET/SEAL KIT- FEL-PRO has a turbo mounting gasket kit that has the following gaskets: Downpipe/Elbow Seal, EGR valve, EGR chamber to intake and plenum (x2), Plenum to turbo compressor, turbo compressor to manifold, and oil pan drain connector. The complete kit number is ES 72507 (1978-83 year) and was picked up at my local auto parts store for $19.44. "We found it looking through a new FP catalog. It was not in their computer." Thanks to Trent - Buicksandrail on TB.com.

DOWNPIPE TO TURBO SEAL - You may have a hard time finding a GM part number for the doughnut seal (gasket) used between the downpipe and turbocharger elbow. It is not pictured in some of the Illustrations catalogs. All RWD Turbo V6's use the same seal, from 1978 to 1987. It is GM part number 1262500, Group 3.611. All Rivieras use GM # 25504003. This part is NOT Turbo, or even V6, specific. Local parts stores should carry it, but bring in the old one to match it up. If you tell them what it is for, they will give you the old "Dealer-Only" line.

 

[Ttype83]

Re: Happy Happy Joy Joy, Happy Happy Joy Joy

Originally posted by Turbo-Rich
SHE LIVES! ! !


& I finally did my first burnout in my new garage, heheheh.



I also added my alc. kit finally.
I bought an NOS "fan spray" nozzle.
I installed it in the fact. vac. port on the top side of the carb. plenum with the fan spray angle pointed directly towards the turbo's impeller. I can adjust the amout(not pressure) of alc. I want to flow from a valve on the bottle.
I can't wait to try it out

Tonya is goning to get you for that

Take some pics of that Alky setup and share.

Gald to here it's going good

 

[Freddie's Buick]

Now it's time to tear up the tar and show dear ole Mustangs who's boss.....go git 'em!

 

[Tonya83T]

Re: Happy Happy Joy Joy, Happy Happy Joy Joy

Originally posted by Turbo-Rich
SHE LIVES! ! !

& I finally did my first burnout in my new garage, heheheh.

YOU DID WHAT?
hummmmm........

 

[Turbo-Rich]

SHE'S DEAD!

LOL.


O.K., took her out for "testing" on Sat. morn.
Made about 3 trips. Everything was running sweet.
The only thing I had to adjust was the alc/water kit. I had it adjusted for max flow & that was WAY to much! The first time I made boost I bogged the whole eng. down & "limped" for about two blocks until it was all burned out. I adjusted it back & went out again.
First made 3#'s then 5#'s then lastley 9#'s of boost twice on the last trip. At all times my (new)O2 sensor remained on the rich side according to my meter. Even @ 9#'s & a litttle @ idle too. She felt strong & idled well at a stop, didn't appear to have any vac./coolant/fuel leaks/troubles. I was a happy camper to say the least

Then, for the ultimate test. I told Tonya to take it for a drive.
She's gone about ten min. & I get a phone call.
Car lost all elect. power. It was dead about three blks. aways.
The ignition doesn't seem to be getting any power at all. Anything electric that has to have the key on to work, doesn't.
(stereo, guages, STARTER)
Everything else like headlights, doorbuzzer, inerior lights are working just fine.
I checked the fuses & they were fine.
I also checked & I am getting power to the starter & alt.
However, the coil doesn't seem to be getting any power at all.
At least if I checked it right, @ the red wire
Any suggestions? Electronics/wiring isn't my strong suit
I sure hope nothing touched & shorted out!
Is there anything that can go out on our cars that can cause this?
It's like everything is dead when I turn the key.
If I don't find it soon I'm going to have to take it somewhere. It felt to good driving it the other day to let it go sitting now!
Any suggestios would be apretiated

Thanks Rich for the gasket part #'s.

Jim-I'll e-mail ya some pic's of the alc. kit when I take some.
Anyone else who might want to see it too. Just ask.
When I get all the lines braided It'll prob. go up on the website.
I bought the kit from TB.com member GS70350. It looks like an old roadrace set up from the 70's/80's? It looks pretty neat.
Tho not as "high tech" as fred's system.

 

[pat83t]

could be a fusible link in the ignition system. or your ignition switch could have gone dead.

 

[Turbo-Rich]

Originally posted by pat83t
could be a fusible link in the ignition system. or your ignition switch could have gone dead.

I was thinkin' fuseable link also but I dread trying to track it down Off hand I do think I remember seeing one comming off my alt. when I was putting things back together. I guess thats a good place to start.
I hadn't thought of the ign. switch going dead. What's the easiest way to test that? Should I just be looking to see if the hot wire is getting power with the key "on"?
THANX