3.8 Stock bottom end 500 hp????

TIMINATOR

Member
It also refers to the LS type of engine design.
I knew I forgot a few things:
Cometic HGs with "ears" on the chamber to allow more valve unshrouding
These HGs are designed for 4 bolt heads. They are now known as "the new design 4 bolt head gasket" I will provide the part # later when I go out to my shop.
Fully polished chambers for less heat absorption into the water jacket.
Chamber blended into top valve cut to eliminate flame front dead area around valves.
Chamber reshaping to enhance flame front away from the spark plugs.
As usual, plugs will be indexed.
In my past turbo builds, I have found these Chamber mods allow more low gear timing and faster spooling.
The 62/62 is because I like cooler air, less back pressure, and will not dragrace the car, so I don't need a bigger stall that normally is used with this sized turbo for high boost launches, and immediate boost. A lazier "street" launch makes it easier on driveline parts, and I like my skinny tire cars to be able to "hook in a car wash!" Think "sleeper", and white haired guy in an old white Buick. P.S. I am "debadging" it too. The cops always seem to chase the guy with the fat tires, loud exhaust, decals, and bling, that was spinning his tires, while not noticing that I was ahead of him.......
I live in Phoenix,AZ. where summer temps run in the 115+ during the summer, and I am building this as a "mountain car."
For you "flatlanders", that's a mountain cruiser that may be running sea level plus 8 or 9 lbs boost on the upside of a mountain for 15 to 30 MINUTES AT A TIME!
The front and rear are also lowered 2"+ to enhance handling as are bigger sway bars with urethane bushings.
Turbo size is an experimental collaboration between Jason and myself, and he, and you all will be notified of all of the results!
Weekends will often be spent between 4500 and 9000 ft. altitude, cruising around, messing with the "sports car" boys.
Not much traffic up there, and the non turbo cars are wheezing for air. The latest "Whipple blower" cars are better off, but still the density altitude in Flagstaff (around 6000+actual feet, in the summer runs around 10,000 feet+ on the ground! This car is continuing my forays into the mountain thing.
My last turbo mountain sleeper was a 1979 Pinto with a built Turbo Capri 2300 cammer motor. With 2.79 rear gears, I could put the cruise control on and run 90+ between Second Mesa/ Tuba city area and Flagstaff. That road is a wide two lane with two very sweeping 30 degree curves in around 40 miles!
No cops! It's on the Indian reservation and many top speed shootouts happen there! It's kinda in a big, giant shallow dish and you can see most of the way to the other end! Pinto top speed was in the 135+ area! I did have a roll bar in that one! And a radar gun.....
The mountains are FUN!
More comments, questions?
TIMINATOR
 

TurboTGuy

Gray Beard Member
Where do you live in Phoenix? Where's your shop?

I'm at 7th Street and Glendale. I'm an old white haired guy with a white TR, too. :)

We should have a beer sometime.
 

TIMINATOR

Member
Where do you live in Phoenix? Where's your shop?

I'm at 7th Street and Glendale. I'm an old white haired guy with a white TR, too. :)

We should have a beer sometime.
I just missed someone a month or two ago at the Bell rd/Mixteca Saturday afternoon show. They were just leaving as I was looking for a place to park. You?
Other than mine, I have only seen a total of two other white ones ever!
Shop is in Avondale near 107th and Indian School. 623-877-8553
M-F 9-6. Sat. 9-1 or 2
Call me!
 

TIMINATOR

Member
I just missed someone a month or two ago at the Bell rd/Mixteca Saturday afternoon show. They were just leaving as I was looking for a place to park. You?
Other than mine, I have only seen a total of two other white ones ever!
Shop is in Avondale near 107th and Indian School. 623-877-8553
M-F 9-6. Sat. 9-1 or 2
Call me!
Currently thinking about heat coating the intake, plenum, exhaust manifolds, up and down pipes, and adding 1.65 roller rockers too. Prefer stainless rockers, but will do alum if that's all that's available. T&D hasn't been answering their phone, just about 8 rings and then a busy signal. No answer to my e mail either. I was a dealer, just no purchases lately...
TIMINATOR
 

TurboTGuy

Gray Beard Member
It may very well have been me.

T/A sells nice 1.65 Roller Rockers. He's right here in town.
 

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Mr.Spool

Well-Known Member
I knew I forgot a few things:
Cometic HGs with "ears" on the chamber to allow more valve unshrouding
These HGs are designed for 4 bolt heads. They are now known as "the new design 4 bolt head gasket" I will provide the part # later when I go out to my shop.
Fully polished chambers for less heat absorption into the water jacket.
Chamber blended into top valve cut to eliminate flame front dead area around valves.
Chamber reshaping to enhance flame front away from the spark plugs.
As usual, plugs will be indexed.
In my past turbo builds, I have found these Chamber mods allow more low gear timing and faster spooling.
The 62/62 is because I like cooler air, less back pressure, and will not dragrace the car, so I don't need a bigger stall that normally is used with this sized turbo for high boost launches, and immediate boost. A lazier "street" launch makes it easier on driveline parts, and I like my skinny tire cars to be able to "hook in a car wash!" Think "sleeper", and white haired guy in an old white Buick. P.S. I am "debadging" it too. The cops always seem to chase the guy with the fat tires, loud exhaust, decals, and bling, that was spinning his tires, while not noticing that I was ahead of him.......
I live in Phoenix,AZ. where summer temps run in the 115+ during the summer, and I am building this as a "mountain car."
For you "flatlanders", that's a mountain cruiser that may be running sea level plus 8 or 9 lbs boost on the upside of a mountain for 15 to 30 MINUTES AT A TIME!
The front and rear are also lowered 2"+ to enhance handling as are bigger sway bars with urethane bushings.
Turbo size is an experimental collaboration between Jason and myself, and he, and you all will be notified of all of the results!
Weekends will often be spent between 4500 and 9000 ft. altitude, cruising around, messing with the "sports car" boys.
Not much traffic up there, and the non turbo cars are wheezing for air. The latest "Whipple blower" cars are better off, but still the density altitude in Flagstaff (around 6000+actual feet, in the summer runs around 10,000 feet+ on the ground! This car is continuing my forays into the mountain thing.
My last turbo mountain sleeper was a 1979 Pinto with a built Turbo Capri 2300 cammer motor. With 2.79 rear gears, I could put the cruise control on and run 90+ between Second Mesa/ Tuba city area and Flagstaff. That road is a wide two lane with two very sweeping 30 degree curves in around 40 miles!
No cops! It's on the Indian reservation and many top speed shootouts happen there! It's kinda in a big, giant shallow dish and you can see most of the way to the other end! Pinto top speed was in the 135+ area! I did have a roll bar in that one! And a radar gun.....
The mountains are FUN!
More comments, questions?
TIMINATOR
Post 45.
There is no way to 60ft and 330 hard with that stall on a 62mm turbo to get the skinny tire to dead hook.
Lag doesn't equate to leaving hard.
A draggy or stopwatch time it out will enlighten you.
I have tons of data on this so if you want to send some numbers my way I'm here or you can PM me.
 

TurboTGuy

Gray Beard Member
The chassis should be setup based on the power that is being put to it and the surface.
Chassis tuning is a separate topic for another thread and there several threads where guys are willing to share has chimed in.
A big block on 91 octane should not be used as a comparison to a buick v6 that should never run 91 octane when boosting anything part stock boost levels.
The hp per hole is not comparable.
800hp on a v8 is 100hp per hole
The v6 has to make 133+hp per hole.
Mr. Spool,

91 is the highest octane "pump" gas you can get in AZ.

Therefore, Alky Control or some type of octane booster is a must.

Or there is race gas at $10 plus a gallon......... Let's go Brandon!
 
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Mr.Spool

Well-Known Member
Mr. Spool,

91 is the highest octane "pump" gas you can get in AZ.

Therefore, Alky Control or some type of octane booster is a must.

Or there is race gas at $10 plus a gallon......... Let's go Brandon!
3/4 nozzles and 2 pumps will take care of and base octane lol
 

TIMINATOR

Member
Mr. Spool:
3/4 nozzles and 2 fuel pumps? Take care of?
Explain please?
I didn't understand the last humor thing either from Chuck.... or is this, huh?
Perhaps my leaning on an old friend (Art Carr) and mebbie not explaining what I expect from the combo has bitten me in the butt? I thought he and Jason would be a solid source of info. I had been lurking on here long before I joined, now I hope the turbo/convertor combo isn't going to negate everything else.....
I talked to both at length several times before I gave everybody the order, is this thing going to be a total pig? Or just not an instant spool? I can work the traction thing here at my shop: bigger/stickier tires, notch kit, instant center, etc. What next? How much more stall would I need? Both guys had the entire combo before my orders. I'd insert a sad face here, but I don't know how.....
TIMINATOR
 

TIMINATOR

Member
What company is Dave Husak with? Contact #? Isn't Art Carr a guru anymore? Was it a mistake to go with him for trans and convertor? He told me in no uncertain terms: no stall higher than 2500 on the street for my car. That I would hate it. I explained I had many 3000, and two 3500s, and even one that stalled to 4200 that were regularly street driven. He did tell me that if I was smarter than him, build it myself. I have used that line myself many times in my shop too. HEEELLLPPP MR. WIZARD!
 

ITSAV6

It's my Granny's car!
Art Carr isn’t the guru of the 2004R. 2500 stall in a car that has that much stall stock? That’s not what he was selling the Buick community for years. It was 3k for a stock cam car. PTC, Dave, or Full Throttle converters are light years ahead of Arts 9”
 

Buick Mark

Active Member
a very good, stock oiling system
The LS's oiling is very similar and not superior to Buick's
The only upside to and LS oiling system is the cranks mounted gerotor pump that runs at crank speed instead of old school half speed like Buick's and everybody else from that era.
The six bolt mains on an LS block arent there because it makes 800 hp stock, They're there probably to keep the block from flexing, which makes more sense, but people think its because the engine is so powerful.
 

TIMINATOR

Member
Art Carr isn’t the guru of the 2004R. 2500 stall in a car that has that much stall stock? That’s not what he was selling the Buick community for years. It was 3k for a stock cam car. PTC, Dave, or Full Throttle converters are light years ahead of Arts 9”
Mine is still new in the box, I'll call Dave Monday.
And Art.
I need to know how each rates their stall, at what torque level, under boost or not and how much, at the stated stall rpm.
I'm local to Hughes and know many peeps there for YEARS (decades!) I'll talk to them too for info purposes.
As I remember my previous before modded (and first was purchased new) GNs, and my current Turbo Coupe footbrake stalled to 1900/2000 rpm. The first one we did together with my mods in 1987 picked up 350/400 rpm dead stall and a bit more flash stall.
My Hughes GM-25 (2500 nominal stall advertised 11") behind my 454 (iron headed oval port motor) foot brake stalled 3200 rpm and flashed to about 34/3500 rpm. It ran 10.80s all day long on pump gas 3.73 gears, p/s, p/b, a/c street tires and thru the mufflers.
Stall is a torque /boost thing. I question if all mfgrs are using the same standards. I intend to find out!
If anyone wants to jump in with their STOCK, unaltered gn convertered cars stall, please do!
TIMINATOR
 

TIMINATOR

Member
Mine is still new in the box, I'll call Dave Monday.
And Art.
I need to know how each rates their stall, at what torque level, under boost or not and how much, at the stated stall rpm.
I'm local to Hughes and know many peeps there for YEARS (decades!) I'll talk to them too for info purposes.
As I remember my previous before modded (and first was purchased new) GNs, and my current Turbo Coupe footbrake stalled to 1900/2000 rpm. The first one we did together with my mods in 1987 picked up 350/400 rpm dead stall and a bit more flash stall.
My Hughes GM-25 (2500 nominal stall advertised 11") behind my 454 (iron headed oval port motor) foot brake stalled 3200 rpm and flashed to about 34/3500 rpm. It ran 10.80s all day long on pump gas 3.73 gears, p/s, p/b, a/c street tires and thru the mufflers.
Stall is a torque /boost thing. I question if all mfgrs are using the same standards. I intend to find out!
If anyone wants to jump in with their STOCK, unaltered gn convertered cars stall, please do!
TIMINATOR
P.S. anybody have or used one of Arts convertors lately?
TIMINATOR
 

TurboTGuy

Gray Beard Member
Mine is a 3200 PTC. To me, It's only loose in reverse.

Trans was built by 4C's Transmissions in Long Beach, CA. Julian is a master with 200 4R's, but he's got a seriously bad temper.
 

Nigel

Well-Known Member
He did tell me that if I was smarter than him, build it myself.
That kind of statement is troubling. He did not invent the torque converter, and being able to machine and assemble parts is a whole different skill/capability then being able to understand the operation and apply it to a specific application. Depending on what you want to do will drive the application. On these cars I would not run a 6262 at low boost unless it was running at 8000+ rpm to get 700 HP, and then maybe not then, because I have never seen a 6262 compressor map. These motors in close to stock form are not high rpm motors.

I have come to the point where I hate the term "torque multiplication" and "stall speed". They are meaningless.
A torque converter, as the name implies, converts to torque. It converts engine power to torque at high to 100% slip.
A POS converter with big clearances will give a high stall speed, but suck everywhere.

My wants in a torque converter: (not considering other factors that have to be considering like chassis/suspension)
Allow the engine to build RPM on the brake and convert the power at that rpm to torque via the pump, turbine, and stator.
When I let off the brake, allow the RPM to flash up to the meat of the engine power.
As turbine speed approaches pump speed, couple with maximum efficiency.

The PTC non lockup I have, specified by Bison, with my combination performs really well.
On the foot break it will easily come up to 4400 to 4500 rpm, flashes up to 4700-4800, and by 5100 couples with roughly 6% slip.
Car runs down the strip between 4800rpm and 5100rpm, car shifts auto.
Street drives fantastic. No heat build up, don't miss the lock-up.
I am over ever considering a lockup for my power level. (Many varieties of expensive race converters to explore though).

Dave built my tranny, and you will not find a better builder.

The fluid dynamics and transient nature of the engine converter combo makes understanding and developing an optimum torque converter hard to understand. Mankind has been working on it for over a century+.
 
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