3.8 Stock bottom end 500 hp????

TIMINATOR

Member
For every guy with 500 REAL HP that lived, stock, there are 20 guys with a lot of broken parts.
And those 20 aren't bragging!
And never assume you are as smart as that one guy. You just mebbie aren't getting the whole story. The winners don't tend to tip their hand too early in a card game either.
Also don't put too much stock in the guy that listens to you, and says: "that's one way to do it." jmho
TIMINATOR
 

TIMINATOR

Member
For every guy with 500 REAL HP that lived, stock, there are 20 guys with a lot of broken parts.
And those 20 aren't bragging!
And never assume you are as smart as that one guy. You just mebbie aren't getting the whole story. The winners don't tend to tip their hand too early in a card game either.
Also don't put too much stock in the guy that listens to you, and says: "that's one way to do it." jmho
TIMINATOR
P.S. Listen to the guys with fast cars, and a zillion posts.
TIMINATOR
 

TIMINATOR

Member
P.S. Listen to the guys with fast cars, and a zillion posts.
TIMINATOR
Ignore magazine articles!!!!
Especially the:
"WE TURBO'ED A STOCK, JUNK YARD 5.3 LS MOTOR AND MADE 900 HP!

YOU DON'T HAVE:
*5 main bearings, just 4
*8 rod bearings, just 6
*6 bolt main caps, just 2
*a very good, stock oiling system
*high flow stock heads with big valves
*a stock roller cam
*over 6" long connecting rods
*an engine that only needs to make a half dozen dyno runs at about 6 seconds per loaded run, but you
DO HAVE:
*a motor that needs to live, for more than 45 seconds loaded
*a motor that was originally designed for Grand ma's Buick
*and has aerated oil up against the back of the block and wrapped around a spinning crank shaft during a run

Did you ever notice the magazines never actually put one of these miracle motors in a car, on a dragstrip?

I wrote for magazines.
Don't believe everything you read.....
Can't say much more, they make you sign stuff....
TIMINATOR
 

Chuck Leeper

Toxic old bastard
Staff member
Did you ever notice the magazines never actually put one of these miracle motors in a car, on a dragstrip?
Regardless of which engine are you referring to, that statement is bullshit.

"I wrote for magazines.
Don't believe everything you read....."
That wouldn't be the NYT would it?
 

TIMINATOR

Member
Regardless of which engine are you referring to, that statement is bullshit.

"I wrote for magazines.
Don't believe everything you read....."
That wouldn't be the NYT would it?

Regardless of which engine are you referring to, that statement is bullshit.

"I wrote for magazines.
Don't believe everything you read....."
That wouldn't be the NYT would it?
Gee. V6sleeper said: "some of the new jacks don't stick around long, and give up on our cars quickly."
It could be, or mebbie they just give up on the board quickly.
Not all appreciate, nor tolerate snarkyness and attacks when they are on a quest for knowlege, or just trying to give a different slant on someone else's problem. And you just never know where the next good idea is going to come from.
New to the turbo Buick world doesn't mean new to the fast car world. I'm not new to either, just this board, and although I do enjoy going to a circus, I have no desire to be part of one.
There should be room for many ideas and opinions, and open, civil discourse. I will just go back to lurking and see if that is true here.
TIMINATOR
 

TireFryer

The New Kid
I’m running 30 psi in my SBE… 17° high gear timing and pump 93/alky… I tune to no detonation and have a 10.5:1 wot afr. Detonation kills. Not hp. (To a certain point)
 

TIMINATOR

Member
Apology accepted graciously Chuck!
I generally don't have an issue with thin skin, you just caught me wrong.
I have a problem with no filter between my brain and mouth. I have to work hard during a face to face conversation with strangers. The board is easier for me because I read, think about it, write a response, don't send it, reread it again about an hour or so later, then edit it before sending.
My over 40 year long friends warn peeps before bringing them into my shop, I try not to embarass them. Sometimes I am even successful!
As a shop owner my biggest pet peeve is prospective customers bringing in copies of engine articles that I know are hand grenades with the pin hanging out.
I graciously turn down the work by providing a realistic estimate of what the build really needs to make it reliable.
Customer then takes it to a shop that builds the exact replica motor, which proceeds to scatter everywhere.
The next call is them begging me to save them because they spent all of their too small budget elsewhere.
I try not to smile too much when telling them that their cores are now junk too.
Along another line, I have been reading a LOT on here about rear suspensions; sway bars, air bags, shocks, etc, and notice that there is a big difference between what everyone runs now, and what I have always found works in the past skinny tire 8 and 9 second cars.
The tires then were garbage in comparison to what exists now. I wonder if the fast guys are just keeping quiet.....
I need to learn how to upload fotos of some of the old stuff, some may find them interesting.....
TIMINATOR
 

TurboTGuy

Gray Beard Member
Gee. V6sleeper said: "some of the new jacks don't stick around long, and give up on our cars quickly."
It could be, or mebbie they just give up on the board quickly.
Not all appreciate, nor tolerate snarkyness and attacks when they are on a quest for knowlege, or just trying to give a different slant on someone else's problem. And you just never know where the next good idea is going to come from.
New to the turbo Buick world doesn't mean new to the fast car world. I'm not new to either, just this board, and although I do enjoy going to a circus, I have no desire to be part of one.
There should be room for many ideas and opinions, and open, civil discourse. I will just go back to lurking and see if that is true here.
TIMINATOR
Listen to the old timers.

A thicker skin will help. These guys have seen everything over the past 35 years, and, for good reason, they are weary and tired of guys that argue their tried and true ways when they offer. If you can do better, please post that shit up.

If you can do better, please post that shit up.

You can only do so much when making one of these cars a fast street car. The recipes are readily available.

They mean no harm, all they want to do is help, that's why they replied. Don't be afraid to ask questions.
 

Mr.Spool

Well-Known Member
I wonder if the fast guys are just keeping quiet.....
I have posted and helped many for years here
Gaining nothing but the pleasure of seeing guys enjoy their cars and to be part of the community that has several cool people in it.
I have had several turbo buicks.
And still do.
They are very fast and can run with any platform on most any surface.
No I will not give out everything I have tested and paid for and learned but I have and will help others to a certain point.
Out of respect for who I race and keeping things out of the spotlight
Because most of what we do is after hrs and eyes are watching always lol I keep it under the hat.
Ther are others that class race on the board or have run very fast on parts they have and want to show how fast they are going,nothing wrong with that either,they are here also.
It's hard to gauge with newbies like yourself what the intent is or how knowledgeable initially.
If you want to learn just ask a question
If you want to show us something cool maybe we can share.
But to preach as someone new is going to draw fire especially with all the experience that is on this board.
When someone posts something off it will be questioned especially if it's not inline with the experiences of those who have been doing buick v6s for many many years.
 

TIMINATOR

Member
OK so I only have been dragracing for 53+ years, had a couple of handfuls of 7,8, and 9 second street and drag cars, 9 and 10 second HARLEY Street and drag bikes, owned and built about a dozen blown pickle/tunnel boats (all between 100+ to 140 mph)built many more of everything because I own a HP engine machine and chassis fab shop since the late 80s, wrote tech for several magazines, and for the hell of it, have around 400 skydives, and those include night, water, demo, 80+ person, and over 223 mph speed dives from normal planes, hot air balloons, jets, and biplanes. OH yeah, HALO jumps from 32,000 ft, and opening on the deck at around 1000ft. At night.......
All of this comes at a great cost: 27 broken bones, 5 wives, 3 divorces (expensive!), buried a previous wife, and 2 girlfriends.
I am not thin skinned, sensitive, arrogant, nor will I EVER justify, on any posts ever again, where my knowlege base comes from. I read and study, a LOT! I also dance to the beat that I hear in my own head, I prefer flow to boost, attention to detail, and prefer a well set up, but stock looking chassis.
Oh yeah, moonlight, long walks on the beach..... OH HELL NO!!!!!!
But I do have logbooks, scars, an odd sense of humor, and a crapload of pictures! So when can I qualify for my Old Timers Award, and where do I pick it up?
TIMINATOR
 

Mr.Spool

Well-Known Member
OK so I only have been dragracing for 53+ years, had a couple of handfuls of 7,8, and 9 second street and drag cars, 9 and 10 second HARLEY Street and drag bikes, owned and built about a dozen blown pickle/tunnel boats (all between 100+ to 140 mph)built many more of everything because I own a HP engine machine and chassis fab shop since the late 80s, wrote tech for several magazines, and for the hell of it, have around 400 skydives, and those include night, water, demo, 80+ person, and over 223 mph speed dives from normal planes, hot air balloons, jets, and biplanes. OH yeah, HALO jumps from 32,000 ft, and opening on the deck at around 1000ft. At night.......
All of this comes at a great cost: 27 broken bones, 5 wives, 3 divorces (expensive!), buried a previous wife, and 2 girlfriends.
I am not thin skinned, sensitive, arrogant, nor will I EVER justify, on any posts ever again, where my knowlege base comes from. I read and study, a LOT! I also dance to the beat that I hear in my own head, I prefer flow to boost, attention to detail, and prefer a well set up, but stock looking chassis.
Oh yeah, moonlight, long walks on the beach..... OH HELL NO!!!!!!
But I do have logbooks, scars, an odd sense of humor, and a crapload of pictures! So when can I qualify for my Old Timers Award, and where do I pick it up?
TIMINATOR
That's quite a lifetime of experience you have there
I like it!
So how fast have you gone in a buick v6 in the 1/8,1/4 mile.
On what parts and combo,weight,tire etc?
That's if your willing to share.
See the reason I ask is since we are in a low horsepower thread with stock bottom end and you are talking about hard parts failure and some majic needed to do this,however the real truth is it's been done alot and doesnt take alot to make 500hp on these engines and live as many have attested to including myself.
Not trying to offend you at all.
 

TIMINATOR

Member
OK so I only have been dragracing for 53+ years, had a couple of handfuls of 7,8, and 9 second street and drag cars, 9 and 10 second HARLEY Street and drag bikes, owned and built about a dozen blown pickle/tunnel boats (all between 100+ to 140 mph)built many more of everything because I own a HP engine machine and chassis fab shop since the late 80s, wrote tech for several magazines, and for the hell of it, have around 400 skydives, and those include night, water, demo, 80+ person, and over 223 mph speed dives from normal planes, hot air balloons, jets, and biplanes. OH yeah, HALO jumps from 32,000 ft, and opening on the deck at around 1000ft. At night.......
All of this comes at a great cost: 27 broken bones, 5 wives, 3 divorces (expensive!), buried a previous wife, and 2 girlfriends.
I am not thin skinned, sensitive, arrogant, nor will I EVER justify, on any posts ever again, where my knowlege base comes from. I read and study, a LOT! I also dance to the beat that I hear in my own head, I prefer flow to boost, attention to detail, and prefer a well set up, but stock looking chassis.
Oh yeah, moonlight, long walks on the beach..... OH HELL NO!!!!!!
But I do have logbooks, scars, an odd sense of humor, and a crapload of pictures! So when can I qualify for my Old Timers Award, and where do I pick it up?
TIMINATOR
Not here to offend nor be offended, definetly not a newbie in life, just here. I do have a few different takes on the way things are done. I'll share.
Fer instance, why no talk of graphing and relocating rearend instant centers on the G bodies and old Chevelles to eliminate the squat?
My Turbo T Ltd. when I got it was set up with hard as a rock rear springs and 50-50 hard race shocks to eliminate the squat, and a larger rear sway bar. I am going to set it up the way I did my 454 1972 Chevelle in 1990. It ran 9s. Thru the muffs, on street tires, PS,PB, A/C, 3690 lbs. With me. Just the way I drove it on the street. On pump gas 91.
Anybody doing this? Haven't seen any posts on it. P.M. me if it's a secret....
TIMINATOR
 

Mr.Spool

Well-Known Member
Not here to offend nor be offended, definetly not a newbie in life, just here. I do have a few different takes on the way things are done. I'll share.
Fer instance, why no talk of graphing and relocating rearend instant centers on the G bodies and old Chevelles to eliminate the squat?
My Turbo T Ltd. when I got it was set up with hard as a rock rear springs and 50-50 hard race shocks to eliminate the squat, and a larger rear sway bar. I am going to set it up the way I did my 454 1972 Chevelle in 1990. It ran 9s. Thru the muffs, on street tires, PS,PB, A/C, 3690 lbs. With me. Just the way I drove it on the street. On pump gas 91.
Anybody doing this? Haven't seen any posts on it. P.M. me if it's a secret....
TIMINATOR
The chassis should be setup based on the power that is being put to it and the surface.
Chassis tuning is a separate topic for another thread and there several threads where guys are willing to share has chimed in.
A big block on 91 octane should not be used as a comparison to a buick v6 that should never run 91 octane when boosting anything part stock boost levels.
The hp per hole is not comparable.
800hp on a v8 is 100hp per hole
The v6 has to make 133+hp per hole.
 

TIMINATOR

Member
Not here to offend nor be offended, definetly not a newbie in life, just here. I do have a few different takes on the way things are done. I'll share.
Fer instance, why no talk of graphing and relocating rearend instant centers on the G bodies and old Chevelles to eliminate the squat?
My Turbo T Ltd. when I got it was set up with hard as a rock rear springs and 50-50 hard race shocks to eliminate the squat, and a larger rear sway bar. I am going to set it up the way I did my 454 1972 Chevelle in 1990. It ran 9s. Thru the muffs, on street tires, PS,PB, A/C, 3690 lbs. With me. Just the way I drove it on the street. On pump gas 91.
Anybody doing this? Haven't seen any posts on it. P.M. me if it's a secret....
TIMINATOR
My previous 2 GNs were 11 sec rides, stock appearing to those not totally familiar. This one is:
.020 wiseco forged
Total seal classic turbo rings
5 step plateau hone within .0003
0 deck
212/212 Comp roller
Tru roller set
BHJ decked
Steel middle caps
Scat steel crank internally balanced
Flexplate, balancer, iron pulley hub assy all balanced to within .2 of a gram total
ARP studs everywhere
Custom Cometic head gaskets
SI ss valves
5 angle valvejob
Plus front and back cuts where appropriate
flowbench ported heads
Fully ported intake
EGR removed, and recircuited to run brake booster vac out the stock egr boss
70 mm t body & matching upper
Power plate
Johnson lifters
Experimental beehive springs
More oiling mods than most
RJC big, stock location intercooler
62/62 Precision billet turbo
3" down pipe
Gonna do a big exhaust behind that!
Turbo Tweak chip
60 lb. Injectors
My own version of pump hot wire
255 lph (for now) pump (was in car)
Billet adjustable regulator
Lots of gauges & scanmaster g
Art Carr trans (600 hp) and 2500 lockup convertor
And probably not going bigger, ???
Bolt in 9" w/ 3.50 gears 31 spline
Alky controls spray kit
Cold air kit
I probably forgot more.........
Oh yeah I'm still waiting on my Comp custom roller 214/216 .546/.552 lift on 113 l/c
Boost expected to run 15 to 20. At first....
After I run it, I will change the rear IC as needed too
I'll add a GNX seat brace and some frame stiffeners as needed.
NO ROLL BAR!!!!! It's just a nice cruiser for me and #5
Last street cruiser was a non roll barred 1968 nova. 9" tire. Mufflers. Drove it 38 miles to the track. Pump gas 91 octane. One pass. Banned for life. 9.68@141.7 warm up pass, dusty track. Left at 2300rpm/ shifted at 5800 rpm. Max power was at 6250, was gonna try that on next pass... didn't get one.
I'm too old to crawl over roll bars.
Not putting one in the Turbo Coupe either.
Just my latest street car.
Questions?
Comments?
Suggestions?
Old white haired guy in an old white Buick.
TIMINATOR
 

TIMINATOR

Member
My previous 2 GNs were 11 sec rides, stock appearing to those not totally familiar. This one is:
.020 wiseco forged
Total seal classic turbo rings
5 step plateau hone within .0003
0 deck
212/212 Comp roller
Tru roller set
BHJ decked
Steel middle caps
Scat steel crank internally balanced
Flexplate, balancer, iron pulley hub assy all balanced to within .2 of a gram total
ARP studs everywhere
Custom Cometic head gaskets
SI ss valves
5 angle valvejob
Plus front and back cuts where appropriate
flowbench ported heads
Fully ported intake
EGR removed, and recircuited to run brake booster vac out the stock egr boss
70 mm t body & matching upper
Power plate
Johnson lifters
Experimental beehive springs
More oiling mods than most
RJC big, stock location intercooler
62/62 Precision billet turbo
3" down pipe
Gonna do a big exhaust behind that!
Turbo Tweak chip
60 lb. Injectors
My own version of pump hot wire
255 lph (for now) pump (was in car)
Billet adjustable regulator
Lots of gauges & scanmaster g
Art Carr trans (600 hp) and 2500 lockup convertor
And probably not going bigger, ???
Bolt in 9" w/ 3.50 gears 31 spline
Alky controls spray kit
Cold air kit
I probably forgot more.........
Oh yeah I'm still waiting on my Comp custom roller 214/216 .546/.552 lift on 113 l/c
Boost expected to run 15 to 20. At first....
After I run it, I will change the rear IC as needed too
I'll add a GNX seat brace and some frame stiffeners as needed.
NO ROLL BAR!!!!! It's just a nice cruiser for me and #5
Last street cruiser was a non roll barred 1968 nova. 9" tire. Mufflers. Drove it 38 miles to the track. Pump gas 91 octane. One pass. Banned for life. 9.68@141.7 warm up pass, dusty track. Left at 2300rpm/ shifted at 5800 rpm. Max power was at 6250, was gonna try that on next pass... didn't get one.
I'm too old to crawl over roll bars.
Not putting one in the Turbo Coupe either.
Just my latest street car.
Questions?
Comments?
Suggestions?
Old white haired guy in an old white Buick.
TIMINATOR
Not gonna beat on the turbo coupe. Probably gonna keep the boost 15 or so. Just thought I needed to be prepared if I change my mind. I'm just not sort of a half ass guy.....
TIMINATOR
 

Mr.Spool

Well-Known Member
My previous 2 GNs were 11 sec rides, stock appearing to those not totally familiar. This one is:
.020 wiseco forged
Total seal classic turbo rings
5 step plateau hone within .0003
0 deck
212/212 Comp roller
Tru roller set
BHJ decked
Steel middle caps
Scat steel crank internally balanced
Flexplate, balancer, iron pulley hub assy all balanced to within .2 of a gram total
ARP studs everywhere
Custom Cometic head gaskets
SI ss valves
5 angle valvejob
Plus front and back cuts where appropriate
flowbench ported heads
Fully ported intake
EGR removed, and recircuited to run brake booster vac out the stock egr boss
70 mm t body & matching upper
Power plate
Johnson lifters
Experimental beehive springs
More oiling mods than most
RJC big, stock location intercooler
62/62 Precision billet turbo
3" down pipe
Gonna do a big exhaust behind that!
Turbo Tweak chip
60 lb. Injectors
My own version of pump hot wire
255 lph (for now) pump (was in car)
Billet adjustable regulator
Lots of gauges & scanmaster g
Art Carr trans (600 hp) and 2500 lockup convertor
And probably not going bigger, ???
Bolt in 9" w/ 3.50 gears 31 spline
Alky controls spray kit
Cold air kit
I probably forgot more.........
Oh yeah I'm still waiting on my Comp custom roller 214/216 .546/.552 lift on 113 l/c
Boost expected to run 15 to 20. At first....
After I run it, I will change the rear IC as needed too
I'll add a GNX seat brace and some frame stiffeners as needed.
NO ROLL BAR!!!!! It's just a nice cruiser for me and #5
Last street cruiser was a non roll barred 1968 nova. 9" tire. Mufflers. Drove it 38 miles to the track. Pump gas 91 octane. One pass. Banned for life. 9.68@141.7 warm up pass, dusty track. Left at 2300rpm/ shifted at 5800 rpm. Max power was at 6250, was gonna try that on next pass... didn't get one.
I'm too old to crawl over roll bars.
Not putting one in the Turbo Coupe either.
Just my latest street car.
Questions?
Comments?
Suggestions?
Old white haired guy in an old white Buick.
TIMINATOR
Sure
2500 stall is not enough for 62mm turbo.
Even with a good amount of motor compression.
It's a real combo killer in these low rpm motors.
Needs to be loose down low and couple up top with a very narrow rpm window.
Make sure the 200 is built properly.
I would contact David husek and talk to him about his converters since you want to run lockup.
 
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