What Is The Differences Between all The 3800's?

[WIKEDV6]

What are The Differences Between all The 3800's?

I have a 1993 ssei with a blown 3800 motor. I also have four motors, an 1989 3800, 1992 3800 ,one 1994 3800 and a 1995 3800, none of them are supercharged. which motor can I use to replace the blown 3800 in the 1993 SSEI? I will switch the top half of the motor so it will be supercharged. T.I.A

 

[T-Keith]

I would say none. The early supercharged motors had beefer internals. 1989 engine is the most different. 1992 would have a different intake than the 1994 & 1995.

 

[SubZero350]

The 1988-1991 VIN C 3800 N/A engines differed in the cylinder head design with the TPI VIN L engines, whereas the breather hole was in the valve cover in the C motors. Starting with the VIN L TPI 3800s, the breather was integral thru the cylinder head to the intake. According to ALLDATA parts, the 1992-95 SC and N/A 3800's share the same part number crank and pistons, with the only difference being in the rods.

The series II 3800's have approx. 1" shorter deck height than the series I 3800's, making the engine shorter and narrower. The series II 3800 N/A and SC engines share the same block and crank but the rods and pistons are different. The SC and N/A heads for the series II engines are the same with the exception of the bosses in the SC heads being drilled to accept injectors. The SC and N/A blocks were also identical in that both had cross-bolt main caps.

 

[T-Keith]

Great info SubZero350, I didn't go into so much detail. I didn't think the early SC engines had the same pistons as the NA. They did have the same compression ratio, so maybe it would't be too bad. And also I forgot that NA 95s could be series I or II.

 

[TriShield]

The early blown 3.8s also had less horsepower than the current version. 205 - 225 HP I believe until 1995 or 1996 when it was bumped to 240HP.

If you want a supercharged older car that had a 3.8, it would probably be easiest to swap in the entire supercharged motor from another car.

 

[Big Paul]

Hey!

You should send one of them 3800's my way.

A FWD 3.8 will bolt up to a 2.8L tranny, I just found that out, and was thinking of a swap.

I'm kidding about taking one of your motors. But I saw you had a TON of em.

Where could I find a good 3.8? Say a GTP or GS supacharged ones? Or even a Monte SS 3.8?

 

[mechanicalmehem]

Okay, I'm new to this

Okay so i read what you said about the series 2 3800 and i have a series 2 out of a 99 camaro that i was thinking of building to be like a TTA in my 1986 camaro. what would i need to do to be able to turbo it? I am new to the turbo scene and this is the setup i would like to build, but i'm not very knowledgeable about turbos and such.
Thanks

 

[SubZero350]

Re: Okay, I'm new to this

Originally posted by mechanicalmehem
Okay so i read what you said about the series 2 3800 and i have a series 2 out of a 99 camaro that i was thinking of building to be like a TTA in my 1986 camaro. what would i need to do to be able to turbo it? I am new to the turbo scene and this is the setup i would like to build, but i'm not very knowledgeable about turbos and such.
Thanks

The best way to go is to pull the complete rotating assy out of the '99 F-body 3800 and install one from a 96-up series II Supercharged 3800. This includes changing the crank (for balance purposes), rods, and pistons. The aluminum intake and heads should work fine for a turbo setup although I would suggest changing the cam and springs. I have heard that the stock cam has shorter exhaust duration than intake which is opposite what you want to run for a boosted engine. The downside to this swap is you are pretty much limited to a V6 700r4 or 4L60-E trans unless you want to run a midplate to mount to a 2004r (which is recommended). Another pitfall will be the custom exhaust you will need to run in order to accomidate for the turbo unit itself. Don't forget about plumbing oil feed and return for the turbo also.

You could probably run a TTA's stock computer system on the series II setup although the crank sensors differ from the two engines. The series II engine uses a hi-resolution "fast start" and low res 3x dual crank trigger whereas the TTA's and GN's use a 3x low res sensor. The series II's low res reluctor is present as a backup but I am not sure if the hi-res section is defeatable. Software is available from www.tunercat.com to run a 94-95 SC 3800 computer system although it is not fully compatible with the 4L60-E or any other RWD trans; but these controls are bypassable. The cam sensor on the series II engines is not adjustible like on the GN/TTA turbo engines and I am not sure if they are in the same spot relative to crank timing.

Don't be discouraged from using the 3800 series II for a turbo transplant despite the steep amount of modifications involved. The series II engines have many advantages over a stock GN engine including: cross-bolted mains, powdered metal main caps, superior cylinder head design, factory roller cam and rocker arms, and a balance shaft.

 

[mechanicalmehem]

It's long sorry

Okay I may just be getting stupid now but I am going to ask anyway, and thanks for the help, OKay you say pull the rotating assembly out, well thats cool but since I have to do a complete rebuild on this motor anyway can't I just have the crank balanced, also the rest of the rotating assembly, rods and pistons, could i just replace the pistons instead of having to replace the rods also, this is, I am assuming compression as the reason for all this work? anyway to continue on with more questions.....the cam I was going to change anyway(all bearing in motor are fubar including cam) custom exhaust I knew about that but i had forgotten the oil cooler and return for the turbo (I am a mechanic, just a young one though, and i used to work on 6.5 diesels so i do have a little bit of knowledge...anyway) on the trans I am hopping to get a T-56 (defeating the rear wheel drive trans problem) since the car was a T-5 originally and I prefer a standard for a play car which should then bolt up just the same as a 700R4, the computer stuff that is going to be tuff to figure out, but i'll jump that hurdell when i get there, I have some very inventive colleagues and i'm sure they can help me out, hmm the high res sensor.....can i just leave it unplugged? then the adjustable cam sensor timing that might be a problem. I'll figure somethin out anyway, thanks for any help that you can provide...again I appologize for the long post.
Thanks,
Justin

 

[SubZero350]

Ok, you need to change the rods. The n/a rods were put on a serious diet from the factory and I doubt they would hold up to much of anything past 4psi of boost. The SC rods are much beefier, hence much heavier than their n/a cousins so the engine balance is a must if you run a n/a crank. (I would do a balance anyway). You cannot just unplug the crank sensor. The GN/TTA crank sensors were of the 3-wire low res design and I don't think they will bolt up to a series II engine, but I have not tried it. The series II crank sensor has 4 wires: 1 B+ ign, 1 ground, 1 low res 3x, and one hi-res. I would assume you could just not hook up the hi-res wire to the GN/TTA coil pack and it should still work. The series II cam sensor might work with the older system assuming that GM left its signal in the same place relative to TDC no. 1 cylinder compression stroke. It doesn't have to be adjustible to work. I would try it out with the older computer and then go from there if it doesn't work. Getting a T-56 to work with your 3800 or any V6 for that matter may present a problem. All T-56's used a pull-style throwout bearing that had an integral slave cylinder. This clutch style is unusual and may not be compatible with a smaller flywheel like the one that your 3800 can only use. Check with your local clutch/trans shop to see if a custom unit can be built to suit your needs before you buy a T-56. However, if the T-56 is not going to be an option for you because of the clutch, you could always spend the money on a tremec or something similar that is stronger than the T-5, but will bolt up like the T-5 so you don't have to change as many things.

 

[mechanicalmehem]

Thanks for all the info, after I typed the part about the sensor and submitted it i realized how stupid i was in saying to unplug it, anyway, thank you very much for the help, I may ask more questions later but that is enough to get me started(and beating head on table) lol anyway thanks for the help
Thanks
Justin

 

[WIKEDV6]

Thanks guys for all great info