LS1 brake mod

TKGN1

Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2002
Just got finished doing the LS1 brake upgrade and thought others might find the following useful. Difference is night and day between the stock and LS1 brakes. I bought all parts from salvage yard (including another set of G-body spindles and rotors) with the exception of the pads, rotors and bearings/races/seals. If you buy the calipers from a yard, make sure you get the two metric mounting bolts, the brake line bolts, and the little shims that hold the pads in.
I'll probably add a few notes in later, I'm going to build another kit and will have more details to add in. I'll also try to get some pics to go along with the write up.


LS1 Brake Mod, machining the parts

Assuming spindle is off of car and you have the LS1 adapter bracket:
1. Remove hub/rotor from spindle.
2. Remove brake dust shield (you will use two of the three dust shield holes in the spindle for this mod): the hole by the bump stop, and the hole closest to the upper ball joint mount.
a) Hole by bump stop: drill through with letter U drill (.368) (3/8 drill will work) and tap through with 7/16-14 tap.
b) Hole by upper ball joint mount: drill approximately 1 1/8 deep with letter U drill and tap 7/16-14 to the bottom. Check this hole with bolt and adapter bracket to make sure bolt doesn’t bottom out, drill and tap deeper if needed. (I used 7/16 X 1 ¼ long grade 8 bolts)
3. Spindle mod: I used a chop saw to remove the ears but a sawzall or equivalent should do the trick.
a) Ear by bump stop: cut about 1” away from the new mounting hole (ear side of hole). I made the cut parallel to the flat on the bump stop.
b) Ear by the upper ball joint mount: cut about 1” from old caliper mounting hole (ball joint mount side) also cut parallel to flat on bump stop.
Note: neither cut is super critical as long as you don’t cut away your new mounting holes and no other clearance issues are brought up. These locations for cutting will at least get you pointed in the right direction.
c) Clearance for caliper bolts and bracket on spindle: I had access to a mill, but a die grinder or equivalent will work. Lay the adapter bracket on the mounting hole flats of the spindle, there will need to be a little material removal of the spindle to get the bracket to lay flat on the mounting flats. Once you have the bracket flat on the mounting hole flats of the spindle, put the metric bolts that hold the bracket to the caliper through the holes (head of bolt will be on spindle side of bracket pointing out). Next you will need to either cut pockets or completely remove the material on the spindle for the heads of the bolts that hold the bracket to caliper. If the bracket will mount to the spindle with no interference, bolt it to the caliper then bolt on the spindle. I also had to notch the caliper bracket a little to clear the heads of the 7/16 bolts, a little handwork will do for this.
4. Rotor/hub mod:
Access to a lathe or brake lathe will be needed (have heard of some milling the rotor off on a mill). Basically the entire rotor section will be removed, with only the hub section left. The hub should be turned to approximately 5.700” OD. Check the inside diameter of your LS1 rotor for clearance. Be careful not to go much smaller than 5.625” OD, the hub can crack between the stud holes and the outside diameter when new studs are installed. After the hub is machined you need to clean the bearings real good or better, just replace them. I also installed longer studs for the addition of the LS1 rotor, just check and make sure your lug nuts don’t bottom out.
5. Parts should be ready to assemble. I assembled everything on a bench before attempting to install on the car. It’s a little tricky getting the caliper assembly onto the spindle, you will need to slightly pull the rotor out a little to get the bolts through the bracket and into the spindle while also keeping the rotor inside the brake pads. Go ahead and tighten the bolts down at this time. Once everything is put on, I ran the lug nuts on and spun the rotor to check for clearance. If everything looks good, install it on the car.


Installation of LS1 brake assembly on car

1. Remove stock caliper from spindle. Leave brake line attached until new caliper is installed, less of a mess.
2. Remove stock spindle from car. At this point you can perform the machining part of the mod. I went and bought parts from a salvage yard and built the kit before removing my stock set-up.
3. Install new ball joints if needed.
4. Install modified spindle assembly.
5. Remove stock caliper from brake line. I used the stock bolt that came with the LS1 caliper to hook the brake line back up. Attach brake line to new caliper.
6. Bleed brakes
7. Install wheel and rotate to check for clearance issues.
8. Check for leaks and brake function before driving.
 
TKGN1 said:
Difference is night and day between the stock and LS1 brakes. .

It really is just amazing how well a GN can be made to stop.

Now do the rears, <G>
Here's a datalog I was editing for posting in another thread, but it shows, about a 12 PSI launch, with manual LS1 brakes front and rear.


00:32:28 0 2325 146 100 173 62 3.5 10.38 11.0 Y
00:32:28 0 2275 171 100 173 62 3.5 11.26 12.6 Y
00:32:28 0 2400 172 100 173 62 3.5 11.45 15.7 Y
00:32:28 0 2400 181 100 173 62 3.5 11.45 14.5 Y
EngRun Mph Rpm KPa Tps CtsF MatF Spkf PW WB PS
00:32:29 0 2450 181 100 173 62 3.5 11.99 13.2 Y

00:32:29 0 2575 184 100 173 62 9.2 12.18 14.0 N
00:32:29 0 2775 191 100 173 62 16.5 12.79 13.3 N
00:32:29 0 3100 194 100 173 62 16.9 12.91 11.2 N
00:32:29 0 3400 203 100 173 62 16.9 13.61 11.4 N
00:32:29 0 3700 211 100 173 62 19.0 13.89 11.6 N

00:32:29 2 4000 211 100 173 62 18.7 14.62 11.8 N
00:32:29 8 4300 221 100 173 62 15.5 14.62 11.7 N
00:32:29 8 4425 235 100 173 62 14.4 15.53 11.6 N
00:32:29 14 4375 232 100 173 62 10.2 15.96 11.8 N
 
Hey Bruce, I've read quite a few of your posts and appreciate your input. I plan on doing the rears shortly. If there is anything you see I'm missing let me know and I'll add it in, seems alot easier doing the mod than trying to explain it!
Its also amazing how they can handle with a good suspension set-up.
 
TKGN1 said:
Hey Bruce, I've read quite a few of your posts and appreciate your input. I plan on doing the rears shortly. If there is anything you see I'm missing let me know and I'll add it in, seems alot easier doing the mod than trying to explain it!
Its also amazing how they can handle with a good suspension set-up.

Just block off the combination valve when you get the rears on. You might get a spare one from say BWeary, and take care of that on the bench so you're not hurried. There are a number of ways of doing, that, Tapping the front out where the plunger went is fine, the IMO, removing the pressure differential and then silver soldering a plug in, is the best solution. I just took mine over to a machine shop, and told them what I wanted, so I don't have any particulars about sizes (the brass one is a must use for the soldering *cure*). Then just slowly drill thru the *knee over* valve for the rears..

*Handling*, :) :)

It's always worth a few grins to *surprise* someone with hanging with them in the curves.....
 
Great post. I'm hoping the LS1s are worth it over the B-body brakes I have right now. Just out of curiosity, did anyone put the dust shields back on? I went ahead and trimmed mine down a lot then bent it so the caliper bracket holds it down combined with the one bolt that wasn't tapped. If that makes any sense.

Bruce,
How hard was it to install the LS1 rears? What did you do with regards to the parking brake? Thanks.
 
Greasemonkey said:
Great post. I'm hoping the LS1s are worth it over the B-body brakes I have right now. Just out of curiosity, did anyone put the dust shields back on? I went ahead and trimmed mine down a lot then bent it so the caliper bracket holds it down combined with the one bolt that wasn't tapped. If that makes any sense.

Bruce,
How hard was it to install the LS1 rears? What did you do with regards to the parking brake? Thanks.

I had the LE1/B Spindle set-up, and they're not even close to the LS1's, IMO.

No dust shields here.

Follow the one link to the Third Gen List, and there's a how to. 2 old guys did it in 1/2 a day. I just haven't gotten around to hooking up the E Brake yet, it will take some fab'ing thou..
On eBay there were like 2-3 of the rears for about $200 the other day.
 
No dust sheilds on mine.
I'm running 17" wheels. I believe certain 16" wheels will fit and as well as 15" runners with little offset, the LS1 guys can run a 15" runner.
Not sure about the rears.....Bruce?
 
TKGN1 said:
No dust sheilds on mine.
I'm running 17" wheels. I believe certain 16" wheels will fit and as well as 15" runners with little offset, the LS1 guys can run a 15" runner.
Not sure about the rears.....Bruce?

Here's a pic of a LS1 setup with a ZR1 *knock off* wheel. There's lots of room with that wheel.

I was running the 16s up front, but the new brakes could lock them up a tad too easy, so I went to 17s on the front. While you can run the smaller rims, it's kind of counter productive, since you need to run a larger rim to get more tire. FWIW, I did go to a 275/40x17 front, I'm going to drop back a little, and go with a 245/40x17 on the next set (with an alloy wheel). The big tire, and large steel wheels are just too heav for the shocks to dampen properly.
 
Adding in a few notes and pics:

LS1 Brake Mod, machining the parts

Assuming spindle is off of car and you have the LS1 adapter bracket:
Both spindles and calipers are labeled for right hand and left hand, make sure they are assembled the same.
1. Remove hub/rotor from spindle.
2. Remove brake dust shield (you will use two of the three dust shield holes in the spindle for this mod): the hole by the bump stop, and the hole closest to the upper ball joint mount.
a) Hole by bump stop: drill through with letter U drill (.368) (3/8 drill will work) and tap through with 7/16-14 tap.
b) Hole by upper ball joint mount: drill approximately 1 1/8 deep with letter U drill and tap 7/16-14 to the bottom. Check this hole with bolt and adapter bracket to make sure bolt doesn’t bottom out, drill and tap deeper if needed. (I used 7/16 X 1 ¼ long grade 8 bolts)
3. Spindle mod: I used a chop saw to remove the ears but a sawzall or equivalent should do the trick.
a) Ear by bump stop: cut about 1” away from the new mounting hole (ear side of hole). I made the cut parallel to the flat on the bump stop.
b) Ear by the upper ball joint mount: cut about 1” from old caliper mounting hole (ball joint mount side) also cut parallel to flat on bump stop.
Note: neither cut is super critical as long as you don’t cut away your new mounting holes and no other clearance issues are brought up. These locations for cutting will at least get you pointed in the right direction.
c) Clearance for caliper bolts and bracket on spindle: I had access to a mill, but a die grinder or equivalent will work. Lay the adapter bracket on the mounting hole flats of the spindle, there will need to be a little material removal of the spindle to get the bracket to lay flat on the mounting flats. Once you have the bracket flat on the mounting hole flats of the spindle, put the metric bolts that hold the bracket to the caliper through the holes (head of bolt will be on spindle side of bracket pointing out). Next you will need to either cut pockets or completely remove the material on the spindle for the heads of the bolts that hold the bracket to caliper. If the bracket will mount to the spindle with no interference, bolt it to the caliper then bolt on the spindle. I also had to notch the caliper bracket a little to clear the heads of the 7/16 bolts, a little handwork will do for this. The metric bolts that come with the caliper need to be shortened to about 1 1/16” long under the head or 1 3/8 overall.
4. Rotor/hub mod:
Access to a lathe or brake lathe will be needed (have heard of some milling the rotor off on a mill). Basically the entire rotor section will be removed, with only the hub section left. The hub should be turned to approximately 5.700” OD. Check the inside diameter of your LS1 rotor for clearance. Be careful not to go much smaller than 5.625” OD, the hub can crack between the stud holes and the outside diameter when new studs are installed. All of the hubs I have done have cracked when installing the studs. If you are concerned with this, you might hone the holes out or file the ridges down on the studs so they don’t fit quite as tight. I even considered installing the studs before cutting the rotor off. Either way, I haven’t had any problems or concerns about the cracks. After the hub is machined you need to clean the bearings real good or better, just replace them. I also installed longer studs for the addition of the LS1 rotor, just check and make sure your lug nuts don’t bottom out.
5. Parts should be ready to assemble. I assembled everything on a bench before attempting to install on the car. It’s a little tricky getting the caliper assembly onto the spindle, you will need to slightly pull the rotor out a little to get the bolts through the bracket and into the spindle while also keeping the rotor inside the brake pads. Go ahead and tighten the bolts down at this time. Once everything is put on, I ran the lug nuts on and spun the rotor to check for clearance. If everything looks good, install it on the car.


Installation of LS1 brake assembly on car

1. Remove stock caliper from spindle. Leave brake line attached until new caliper is installed, less of a mess.
2. Remove stock spindle from car. At this point you can perform the machining part of the mod. I went and bought parts from a salvage yard and built the kit before removing my stock set-up. I also put the kit completly together on the bench and installed it as a complete assembly.
3. Install new ball joints if needed.
4. Install modified spindle assembly.
5. Remove stock caliper from brake line. I used the stock bolt that came with the LS1 caliper to hook the brake line back up. Attach brake line to new caliper.
6. Bleed brakes
7. Install wheel and rotate to check for clearance issues.
8. Check for leaks and brake function before driving.
 

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Those are nice brakes. Looks similar to the modification done to the spindle for the LS1 mod. The rest of the kit is quite a bit different. I think if you can do the mod for wilwood's brakes, you can do the mod for the LS1 set-up. Although, with wilwood's kit it doesn't offset the wheel like the LS1 and there might be a wieght difference.
Main thing is the cost, I would imagine the Wilwood kit is a little more costly than the LS1 kit. Also replacement parts (rotors and pads) should be more readily available for the LS1 kit.
Not real sure on the braking difference between the two, I would imagine they would be close to the same depending on type of rotors and pads you use.
Good luck on your choice.
 
Not sure, haven't ever done anything on the b-body set-up. Might do a search on the subject.
 
Can anyone tell me who sells the adapter brackets? I have all the LS1 stuff, just need the brackets. Thanks in advance, Jeff
 
Why don't you use the S-10 spindle instead of cutting up the G-body spindle?

I guess because I have a G-body spindle on my "G-body", just made better sense to use the g-body spindle for the application. I also wanted the bigger 12" brakes over the 11", just a matter of opinion. I also got the LS1 components cheap.
I didn't do a comparison between the two to see which would be the better choice. I guess if you could make the LS1 brakes work with the S-10 spindle probably wouldn't be any difference.
 
I guess because I have a G-body spindle on my "G-body", just made better sense to use the g-body spindle for the application. I also wanted the bigger 12" brakes over the 11", just a matter of opinion. I also got the LS1 components cheap.
I didn't do a comparison between the two to see which would be the better choice. I guess if you could make the LS1 brakes work with the S-10 spindle probably wouldn't be any difference.

'78-'87 G body spindles are cheaper & more plentiful than '98-'05 S-10 spindles. Just my 2 cents & opinion.
 
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