Is the Apache Long Bow on the way out?

[Dan Thompson]

I read an article today on the internet about how poor the Long Bow did in Iragi, Kosivo (sp) and the first Gulf War. In the article was the "Key West Agreement" where the AF and Navy said the Army could not have fixed wing aircraft.

The article went on to say how well the A-10. Seem maybe the A-10 should be getting some upgrades and transferred to the Army.

I didn't notice ANY Harriers flying in the war. I haven't seen a word about it since the LA Times wrote a 4 or 5 part series about how 45 pilots have been killed in it. The series got the LA Times a Pulizer.

Any inputs?

If I find the article about the Apache, it was on MSNBC website, I'll post it.

 

[Two Lane]

The Harriers and the Osprey have been very dangerous aircraft...to their pilots (both VTOLS).

The LB Apache production looks safe at least thru FY 2006, when a new multi-service hybrid with VTOL-capability will appear.

Deserts and sandstorms don't put any helicopter in their optimum operating environment(s)...from Iran to Iraq, they've had a difficult time.

 

[n20junkie]

the apache is not going anywhere, and the longbow is definatley here to stay, harriers are being used all over, afghan has a bunch of them flying around right now, and the news doesn't know a dam thing about flying helicopters or the politics behind who will keep what, we have been at WAR, people die, and if you could see what it is like to fly in zero illum, brown out and the brown vastness with out color variation of a desert, and very quickly you can see how you can ball a helicoper up, especially when you 50 feet off the deck, with rolling dunes 200 ft or greater, all of a sudden a radar ALT screames at you " too low, too low check altitude" then WHAM you just flew into a dune, we call them hard landings, more of a soft crash, but thats why us army guys love them helicopters, what a rush.
Grant

 

[Bob Cosby]

Harriers were used extensively for Marine ground support in Operation Iraqi Freedom. In fact, two of the six big deck Amphibious ships in the Gulf (Bataan and Bonhomme Richard) during the were were outfitted specifically to carry Harriers. A "typical" Amphib Airwing has 6 harriers and many helicopters. These two had 20 Harriers and only two CH-46 helo's.

Going further....Harriers had a major role in the rescue of PFC Lynch (which I'm sure you have ALL heard plenty about). It was a AV-8B that did the final airborne recon of the area just prior to the landing of the Special Ops. LA Times probably forgot to print that.

The Harrier certainly does not have a stellar safety record. However, if you read nothing but the LA Times (loves to report "bad" news - especially with a liberal, anti-military slant), you'd think it crashed on every other mission.

 

[Lee_Burough]

Beating the air into submission....

Helicopters and VTOL operations are inherently dangerous. Nap Of the Earth (NOE) operations find these guys less than 50 feet above the ground at 100+ miles per hour.

Add darkness, hostile fire, brown outs and the human component....All of a sudden you have bent metal, broken bones and blood. I don't know how l lived through my 7 years and 2000 hours flying time in helicopters during the Viet Nam era.

Today's pilots operate in a real hostile environment. Its the environment, NOT the platform they fly that is the biggest threat to their safety

My President Bush ( ) has proposed a policy that will "skip" acquisition of the next generation of weapons. That will allow us to go ahead and develop future technologies, and then, buy those technologies when potential enemy threats dictate more capabilities from our military. That means we'll prolly keep the Apache for a while yet. Its an awesome platform.

Hats off to the brave men and women defending freedom across the world today. They have Brass ba$$s