Guys using Total-Seals

[Intercooler]

Did you put seals on intake and exhaust valves when you did your motor? I have the top gapless as opposed to second gapless and they call for seals on the intakes and exhaust. From the factory there was nothing but they told me if I don't put them on the exhaust it will burn oil. What results is everyone else getting with their efforts?

 

[dthrock]

Good question, I just put top total seals in my new engine and didnt know anything about this. I get the car back today from the shop, Ill let you know how mine does.

David

 

[Intercooler]

I am having the Vitons put on the exhaust too. Better to be safe I guess.

 

[REDS HOT AIR]

nothing on my exaust valves and no oil control problems (as far as motor goes )

 

[Intercooler]

Yours were second ring gapless weren't they Red?

 

[REDS HOT AIR]

yea but dont see where it would make a difference either way
our exuast are usually under pressure so how would oil get down the guide???

nothing like that was told to me about total seals and i've had them in several motors?

wont hurt to run seals on them i dont think unless they need some lube to them due to how hot they get on turbo motors

 

[kilr6]

I am in the middle of rebuilding and plan on using gapless rings. So, what type of seals are they recommending for the exhaust and intake? I don't want to go back in if I can help it.
Thanks

 

[Intercooler]

Well the Viton umbrellas are stock on the intake and that is what I plan on using on the exhaust. If you have your heads cut you can use PC Seals. The tech guy at Total-Seal said it was due to all the vacuum created and I would start burning oil if I didn't seal the exhaust. My machine shop guy doesn't like the idea because the heads don't wear guides in stock form but he thinks adding the seal to the exhaust side will cause the guide to wear. I was hoping Lee Thompson or some of the others that have used them in our motors would chime in. This is the first time for me with the Total-Seals so I don't want to screw up one way or the other. I already had to widen the top ring gap from .021" to .027" because the tech said I may tear the piston apart. Anyone make any sense of these statements?

 

[Lee Thompson]

rings

I have top total seal rings, NEVER have I had seals on the exhaust guides. My exhaust guides are shortened to be safe on the cam lift. At the worst you might some slight smoke on start up, not always but some times. Not to worry as that is some oil seeping down by the stem while sitting,,good lube. Why did Buick leave them off?

 

[Intercooler]

Lee,

Great! Since you have the Total-Seal tops what ring gaps did you use and do you see any evidence of oil consumption or smoking with yours? Maybe I should stroll over to LS-1.Com or other boards to see what they say. I usually like to go with the manuf. since they do all the testing but it wouldn't be the first time I have been led wrong.

 

[TurboTR]

Yes, many of us run seals on intake and exh. If you don't it will likely burn oil as Lee said. I had a couple of exh seals come off on the new motor a few weeks ago- how'd I know? ;-) This has also happened to several other turbo guys, though it doesn't get mentioned. You might want to consider the Engine Tech seals for that reason. They are *very* sturdy and would be tough to get off even if you wanted to... ;-) The type of rings being used is really an independent issue IMO. Personally I love the T.S. rings on a street engine because they keep the open breathers dry, motor clean, no smelly blowby while idling or cruising, etc.

JMO. YMMV.

TurboTR

 

[Lee Thompson]

rings

This past winter I was at a Performance Parts Show in Indy. Talked to a Total Seal rep. (Kevin Stubaker,I believe is his name) He recomended using total seal top rings for turbo eng. In the past I have used second ring seal. I built a Stage II short block this winter using top seal ring. The info that came with the rings states--
Top Ring--Bore X .0065
Second Ring--Bore X .0045
In my case that came to--- Top--4.015 X .0065 = .026
Second---4.015 X .0045 =.018
I also called their tech # more than once, depending on which person you get ,you will get different opinions
This is what I did,,, set both top rings at .0027 as per one reps. recommend
Second at .018 I also bought a tub of their quick seat to use on the cyl. walls ( In the past I had used Tech Lines simular product)--After 20-30 minutes initial start up and shut down for a leak down test. 3 cyl. were 0 leakage--the other 3-- 1 percent. I would assume if I did a leak down now they would be perfectly sealed. Haven/t touched my car since BG.
Some times when I start my car, get a little smoke but goes away instantly. I have never let that bother me. I use no oil, so it has to be a little oil going by the stem when left sitting.
If you guides are worn that might be a problem.

 

[Lee Thompson]

rings

From what little experience I/ve had with Total Seal, this is what I would do if it were my eng.
Assuming you have a 3.800 bore
Top Total Seal at .025- min.-- .026 would be better
Second--.017 Best of luck to you

 

[Intercooler]

Re: rings

Originally posted by Lee Thompson

This is what I did,,, set both top rings at .0027 as per one reps. recommend
Second at .018 I also bought a tub of their quick seat to use on the cyl. walls ( In the past I had used Tech Lines simular product)--

Lee,

When you say that you set both top rings to .027" what do you mean? My set has a standard top with the groove the second ring lays in. The second part to the top ring is like this---> / and is of a different material that supposedly you don't file. Am I correct on this or do I have to go back and file it? I have mine set at .027" and .021" now. I will also be using the powder for ring seating.

 

[Lee Thompson]

rings

My set of rings were file to fit, actually for a 4.020 bore. When I put each top ring 1 in. deep into the bore the end gaps actually touched. I used a ring gap fileing wheel to file the gap. Yes the thin top ring is cut on a 45 degree angle. Using the tool is the only way I see to file it correctly. I set BOTH TOP RINGS at .027. Didn/t remember seeing anything about not fitting the thin ring, but I will look at my instructions again tomorrow. I would think if it butted together,,,BIG problems

 

[Intercooler]

My instruction made no reference to it. I will call them on Monday to make sure. Using these rings for the first time is making me very

 

[REDS HOT AIR]

i had to fit my filler ring on my second groove ones.