Todd Moyer's twin turbo Outlaw 10.5 car.

[86brick]

*** TURBO TODD MOYER EXTREME 10.5*** 3-22-2008 - Video

Pretty badass ride!

[SGRIM]

Yes it is. Alot of car there to only run that though

[86brick]

Originally Posted by SGRIM

Yes it is. Alot of car there to only run that though

Yeah I kinda agree considering the Lynch Mob is in the 4.30's @175+mph, but I'm pretty certain this is a new car so they are probably still trying to get it sorted out.

[Dusty Bradford]

Yes it's a new car. Still don't see it going faster than 4.30's though. Seems like no matter how much motor you put in a lightweight car 4.20's is very difficult on a 10.5 tire. Lynch is closer than anyone with a 4.31 and he's at 3000#.

Look at Titan's Supra powered Scion running 4.30's at the same weight a lot of the ADRL guys weigh and they're down over 1200hp from most of the big block turbo cars. IMO guys are building motors for bragging rights and the wow factor instead of what they need to get down the track.

[John Wilde]

I don't get this class.
Prostock cars with Ws.... who cares?
Standard Outlaw is insane enough and some of them still look like street type cars. Drag Radial is where it is at right now, but it is not a budget class by any stretch of the imagination...

[SGRIM]

I am all about the E.T. So the biggest tire that will fit will be in our race car

[John Wilde]

Originally Posted by SGRIM

I am all about the E.T. So the biggest tire that will fit will be in our race car

I will be a lot more impressed with your 6 second 6!

[Dusty Bradford]

Originally Posted by John Wilde

I don't get this class.
Prostock cars with Ws.... who cares?
Standard Outlaw is insane enough and some of them still look like street type cars. Drag Radial is where it is at right now, but it is not a budget class by any stretch of the imagination...

Extreme 10.5 does nothing for me either. Outlaw 10.5 is much better to watch.

I'm a little partial but drag radial is the best heads up class going. It's headed down the tubes though if everyone doesn't put their foot down on the rules. NHRA chassis is another headache. 25.5 needs to be extended to 7.0.

[DougsfastZ]

Dusty, what is causing the drag radial class to head down the tubes?

Doug D

[gs462]

I just wanna know what 4.55 ='s on a real track 1/4 mile anyone??
ive never been to or raced 1/8 mile

[Blazer406]

Originally Posted by gs462

I just wanna know what 4.55 ='s on a real track 1/4 mile anyone??
ive never been to or raced 1/8 mile

I saw a ADRL car that ran some 4.50's or so at the time... he let off just after the 1/8..... and coasted to 8.8x or so if I remember correctly..... it is way fast...and that was coasting/braking from the 1/8 to the 1/4.....

[blackshoebox]

Originally Posted by DougsfastZ

Dusty, what is causing the drag radial class to head down the tubes?

Doug D

I have been following drag radial now for 6 solid years, so I will give you my $.02.

I think the class is way out the league of the normal guy for one. The cars that are competing have outlaw 10.5 motors in a stock suspension chassis, so you are talking lots of money for the drivetrain alone.(total car cost >100k) Then some of the cars are to fast for NHRA rules. NHRA says a car going 7.50 or faster should be 3200 or less along with having the rest of cage up to spec. But the rules of the classes want most of the turbo combos to be 3400-3500. Stock suspension is the base idea behind the class, but most of these suspensions have after market torque arms, they move the mounting points around, aftermarket anti-roll bars, etc..there is nothing stock about the suspension. And every week it seems like someone is trying to stretch the rules(running alcohol, torque arm on a car that never came with one, etc..)

From a spectator stand point, it is insane to watch though, and the tracks and sponsers are starting to through some big money races out there, so it will probably grow more into an outlaw 10.5 type class, which I think most of the racers do not want, since it gets away from the original intention of the class was..

I am sure Dusty will fill in.

-Alex

[DougsfastZ]

I hear what your saying Alex.

I don't follow it nearly as close as you do, but I can certainly tell that it's not an easy class to compete in. Maybe NHRA needs to adjust the rules for the 7.50 and faster cars?

What classes are out there now that a "working man" can enter and compete?

Doug D

[blackshoebox]

Originally Posted by DougsfastZ

I hear what your saying Alex.

I don't follow it nearly as close as you do, but I can certainly tell that it's not an easy class to compete in. Maybe NHRA needs to adjust the rules for the 7.50 and faster cars?

What classes are out there now that a "working man" can enter and compete?

Doug D

Heads up racing wise:

Imokaale has a 6.50 idex, and the new real street class. They are both stock suspension classes, with general rules for each motor combination. A lot of the 1/8 mile tracks have similar stuff. The real street class looks like a class that your car still has to run 6.0< in the 1/8 to be competative.

Otherwise all I see is bracket racing, which is boring to me.(street race purist, run watcha brung, and hope you bring enough. )

Car looks nice BTW.

[Dusty Bradford]

Originally Posted by DougsfastZ

Dusty, what is causing the drag radial class to head down the tubes?

Doug D

It's not really going down the tubes but it has made a big change in the last few years. It's the fastest growing class in the country.

Alex summed it up pretty well. Different parts of the country use a different set of rules, mostly to generate car count in that area. This isn't really an issue in the south but you get into the east coast area and they allow ladder bars with a weight penalty and have more relaxed chassis rules. The only real difference in the south is the Florida cars can run lexan windows. We're all at the same weight or close so the lexan isn't a big deal...I just don't like lexan windows in a car that's supposed to look like a street car.

The problem in the class lies in the suspension rules. You have the Wolfe arm which is a single ladder bar, you have the F-body torque arm which doesn't attach in the stock location and is adjustable like a ladder bar. This leads to cars that don't run them having to move the mounting points around on the rear end to compete. Then you have chassis guys trying to make a name for themselves who stretch the rules which only causes controversy. With that said, these cars pushing the rules haven't 60 footed any better than those with suspension that meets the rules, it's just the principle of keeping the class in check.

Promoters of the big races need to put their foot down on the rules rather than relaxing them. Then you either build a car to fit the rules or you don't race.

[Dusty Bradford]

Example. Here's stock suspension 2 years ago



Here's stock suspension today

[DougsfastZ]

Wow, Dusty, those pictures are worth 1000 words

I noticed the first pic, that car has relocation brackets for the LCA's, to change the instant center. I just installed a set on my car, hope it will help me cut low 1.6 shorts.

As for the other two pics, my god. Doesn't looks like "stock" suspension to me. I guess there intpretation of stock is not a 4 link setup.

It is one helluva a class to watch though.

Doug D

[Dusty Bradford]

I think the reason it's so popular is the same reason Outlaw 10.5 was 10 years ago. They look like a real street car on small tires but haul ass. The reason 10.5 went down hill was because chassis builders kept pushing the limits and no one put their foot down and told them "no you can't race".

Most guys want to keep the class in check but you have a few with a lot of $$ who pay big name chassis builders big $$$ to build a car. That chassis guy pushes the limits with the rules. The guy then puts a 50k motor in the car and runs good numbers and the promoters want those names at their race to bring the spectators while at the same time ignoring the roots of the class. The next big $$$ guy gets his chassis guy to top the last controversial set-up and puts a 60k motor in the car....it's a down hill spiral.

I think it should be whatever motor you want with very limited suspension mods. Use all stock mounting points with an anti-roll bar and coil overs. 3000# for V6's and small block N20, 3300# for everything else.

The NHRA is the other problem. Most radial classes have a 3300-3400 weight requirement. NHRA rules state nothing over a 3200# 25.2 chassis can exceed 7.50. The top cars can go 7.30's. NHRA needs to lower the et cutoff to 7.00. The only tracks who can ignore the SFI NHRA recommendation are those who aren't insured by the NHRA and that list is short so most tracks are going to 1/8 for radial.

[blackshoebox]

Dusty,

Whose car is that with "stock" suspension. Looks like mustake with a torque arm...ya that is stock.

You coming down to BMP and Orlando in Oct this year?

-Alex

[blackshoebox]

Originally Posted by DougsfastZ

Wow, Dusty, those pictures are worth 1000 words

I noticed the first pic, that car has relocation brackets for the LCA's, to change the instant center. I just installed a set on my car, hope it will help me cut low 1.6 shorts.

As for the other two pics, my god. Doesn't looks like "stock" suspension to me. I guess there intpretation of stock is not a 4 link setup.

It is one helluva a class to watch though.

Doug D

Doug..

When I had my GN, I used adjustable upper control arms(Metco's) and adjusted pinion angle, which made a huge difference. I think the pinion will change with moving the instant center back, so check into that also.

[Louie L.]

The performance market and technology has taken off in the past 4 years. Its so easy for the regular guy to make big power, but it always takes BIG MONEY to make big power all the time, every race, every weekend. With that comes the guy with unlimited budgets and everything goes out of whack. Prime example is suspensions like Dusty pointed out.

I think some organizations are failing at keeping the little guy in the game.
Most organizations think that by only controlling turbos and Tires, ETs can be kept in check. Unfortunately it will tale more than that, like limiting cylinder heads like NMCA does. This is not a dig at any one or anything.

Ill close with none of them are perfect, you cant make everyone happy. Hopefully one day, when my car is done I can fit into something..LOL

[Dusty Bradford]

Originally Posted by blackshoebox

Dusty,

Whose car is that with "stock" suspension. Looks like mustake with a torque arm...ya that is stock.

You coming down to BMP and Orlando in Oct this year?

-Alex

I think the car belongs to Larry Carpenter and is a 97 body style red Firebird with a N20 motor. It went 8.20's at Memphis. He hasn't run any big numbers, it's just the point of the car whoring out the suspension rules. He has been in talks with Donald to see if his car will be legal in Bradenton.

It has so many bars that I couldn't figure out if the car was a back half car with the stock framerails welded back in place or if the rails were in the stock location. The car is a really nice piece of work though.

I'll be at the BMP race but doubt I'll run Orlando.

[DougsfastZ]

Originally Posted by blackshoebox

Doug..

When I had my GN, I used adjustable upper control arms(Metco's) and adjusted pinion angle, which made a huge difference. I think the pinion will change with moving the instant center back, so check into that also.

I have adjustable uppers, set the pinion angle to -3. It did change the pinion angle a bit when I did the lower control arm brackets, but I reset it to -3. I also set the preload this time around with me in the car since it kept wanting to go right (along with the passenger side of the car saging over an inch).

I'll be at Bradenton this Sat so hopefully I can do better then a 1.65 (and go 11's stock turbo, pump).

Doug D