Starting SBC notchback mustang build

[Kid Turbine]

First of all the T is getting dropped off for tuning to Bob Hinson after walbro pump and headers change.

Well to start I finally convinced myself to go turbo istead of the procharger.( found good deal on a s475)

It will be a forged sbc 357 (that i have already, 406 or 421 later)

8.5:1 or 9:1 (will be running c16 race gas all the time)
Will install water to air intercooler system later since will be using c16

Dart 230 64cc heads with 2.05/1.60 valves (already have)

Weiland 7530 intake (already have)
2800-7200 rpm stock
2800-7800 rpm with 3/4" spacer
3000-8200 rpm with 2" spacer

Holley blow-thur 750 (modified by kevin at CSU or buy one of theirs)

Aeromotive complete fuel system

3500 convertor (already have)

Transbraked Powerglide (already have)

My notchback has a 8.8 with 3.73 already but was going to build it stronger

My first question of help was a camshaft for it?

Here are is one that was custom grind for a guy he was selling and the other is what some you is using in similar setup.

Comp Cams CS 30165
230/230 280/280
.577/.577 w/ 1.5 rockers
114 lsa
3500-6500 rpm
hyd. roller

Comp Cams 12-000-9 (can't find on website)
242/242
570/570 w/ 1.5 rockers
114 lsa

For my second question what ignition system are you guys using?

I have a 6al system was looking at getting a btm to add for timing to boost adjustments.

I seen some with a digitial 6, digitial 7, and the ever ready 7531 box.

if it was locked out 25 0r 30 degree timing or so then any box will work to a certain boost level. (like a steve morris procharger blow thur no intercooler system i have seen on the web)

Looking for some more info on camshaft and ignition setups.

Chime in Dusty, Malibuick231!!!!

[Kid Turbine]

Need Some Help, Guys!!!!

I Know Its A Mustang, But It Got A Gm Motor In It!!!!

And Its Going To Turbocharged!!!!

[tom robison]

i would use the probillet distibuter w/ the advance in it and 6a btm box, set your timing a about 32* full advance and let the btm retard the timing as boost comes on to about 22*. the s475 will give ya plenty of power.

[Louie L.]

Race only car? Why blow thru?

[turbofabricator]

You also will get ALOT more help on turbomustangs.com They have a GM section over there, too. Along with alot more people.

I agree, though. WHY blow-through. If you are trying save money, there are better places to look. A good blow through carb costs nearly as much as EFI. THey have good blow through guru's over on turbomustangs.com Good luck.

[tom robison]

also what are your goals as far as power and times?

[malibuick231]

Man I dont know any thing about carbs. I agree with the other guys you will get alot more help from the gm section on turbomustangs. As far as the cam mine cam from Cam Motion. If I were you I would keep a eye out for a used Fast bank to bank but I dont know if it will work with a ls1. Or you can use a sbf then it would be real easy for headers.

[Dusty Bradford]

With C16 go for 9.1 compression, 9.5 won't hurt. I'm assuming aluminum heads.

The carb deal will work if you have good carb. I've seen them too many times now to say they have issues. I'm sure it will have a boost referenced power valve, if not it's going to stumble getting on the 2-step.

You really do need to look into a used FAST system and compare pricing. With the carb you will still need some sort data logger with WB02 and some inputs for boost to make sure you don't burn the motor up. It's money well spent.

I have helped a guy with a blow through car for a couple years. He had a home made carb built by someone on the net that worked just as good, if not better than one of those fancy $1000 carbs.

I personally like a crank trigger for timing control but a distributor will work. Get a 6a or 7al box, something with crank retard for the locked out timing and a boost retard box. Lock the timing out at 34 and retard the timing .5* per pound.

[Kid Turbine]

This will be a race only car

The dart heads are (iron) 230cc heads 64cc chambers

Kevin will build my carb for 550 or so and be boost referenced

Looking for a cam, scared of off the shelf cams and this is my biggest need

Those fast system used are hard to find nowadays but will look around

The cams I had listed are some cams I fount online for sell

And also here is another camshaft:

Comp Cams (Steve Petty grind) built for a 427 sbc with twin 88's

268/270 @ .050 (small base circle)
.457/.453
.776/.770 with 1.7 rockers
116 lsa
no rpm range listed

Thanks got good feedback about ignition setups so it seems I will be using my 6al box setup and get a boost timing master to add on

Dusty, the btm box takes 1*, 2*, or 3* out by knob and up to 15* total says MSD

hp is what i can get out of the tune (dyno time)

the s475 can be upgraded in the future up to a 91mm by one of the websites I visited lately

Blow-thur is because I have everything already accept a few things

[Louie L.]

One of the 1st 2 cams will work well. That last cam looks BIG for 357CI.

[Dusty Bradford]

A cam in the 242 to 246 range is plenty for your motor. Just like Louie said, the last cam is way to big.

[Kid Turbine]

Well I called Comp Cams today!

They can custom grind the first cam for me for 303.00

But he corrected the specs

230/230 @.050
280/280 adv.
.540/.540 with 1.5 rockers
.577/.577 with 1.6 rockers
114 lsa

Hyd. roller

well here are my prices so far

92 notchback 500.00
modify my 750 carb 550.00 (carb more then the damn car!)
s475 turbo 585.00
camshaft 303.00
btm box 100.00
8.8 rearend with 3.73 200.00

[Louie L.]

That cam is in line with most of their custom cams for Turbo Chevy V8's. Looks like they mostly adjust base on engine size. Mine is 252-252 670 lift 116 lsa. So far Im very happy with it.

[tom robison]

where did ya get the s475 for 585.00?

[Kid Turbine]

Was wondering what should be a limit of boost for this turbo. Some guys just use it to about 25lbs, that was where i may stop the turbo. But some have been over the 30 - 40 pounds range.

Dusty, I looked at your timing suggestions and this what i am up with for this box, it can take out 1,2, or 3 degrees and start at 0,1,2,3,4, or 5 pounds. It can take up to 15 degrees out of total timing.


With 34 total timing it will be at 19 degrees at 19 lbs.

Meaning from 19 to 25 or whatever pounds the motor would be at 19 degrees timing.

So what is too low of timing or this is the best solution for the exterme temp from the boost. Or will it be a dog after all that timing coming out.

malibuick231 what is the higheset you take your s480 and what is your launch boost and timing also.

[Louie L.]

Originally Posted by Kid Turbine

Was wondering what should be a limit of boost for this turbo. Some guys just use it to about 25lbs, that was where i may stop the turbo. But some have been over the 30 - 40 pounds range.

Dusty, I looked at your timing suggestions and this what i am up with for this box, it can take out 1,2, or 3 degrees and start at 0,1,2,3,4, or 5 pounds. It can take up to 15 degrees out of total timing.


With 34 total timing it will be at 19 degrees at 19 lbs.

Meaning from 19 to 25 or whatever pounds the motor would be at 19 degrees timing.

So what is too low of timing or this is the best solution for the exterme temp from the boost. Or will it be a dog after all that timing coming out.

malibuick231 what is the higheset you take your s480 and what is your launch boost and timing also.

This is exactly why a aftermarket FI system would be best. You will not have to play these games with timing and ignition boxes. Also low timing is not a solution for high inlet temps.I can actually create other problems that must be kept in check.

[Kid Turbine]

With the cost of having my intake modified for efi (?), a throttle body (500), a 90 degree neck (200), and 96 pound injectors (400). It would take me more time then the blow-thur route to get the car built but still thinking efi. which fast do i need, found one that was setup for sbc with data logger for 1200. Talked to guys about the turbo and said at 25 pounds is the optium fot the s400 series and they have a s480 at 25 pounds made 1199 hp and its 900. I was going to use an air/fuel gauge and egt gauge also.

[tom robison]

i thought the same thing about using a blowthrough and timing boxes, then i spent alittle more and did injection, if ya look for some things used its not really that bad.I know it was the best thing i did to the car.ya could be up and running for under 2000.00.

[Kid Turbine]

okay!!!! Stop beating my up side my head!!!!!!

What kind of throttle body to look for?

I found a Accufab 90mm throttle body for 200.00 waiting for info on the body was wondering will it fit a 90 degree neck for carb intake.

what size injectors will i need?

[Louie L.]

Originally Posted by Kid Turbine

okay!!!! Stop beating my up side my head!!!!!!

What kind of throttle body to look for?

I found a Accufab 90mm throttle body for 200.00 waiting for info on the body was wondering will it fit a 90 degree neck for carb intake.

what size injectors will i need?

Sell your carb , intake and recoup some of $$$$. The injectors are gonna depend on how much power you wanna make. 83's, 95's, 120's or 160's

If the accufab has the regular Mustang 5.0 bolt pattern it will fit the elbow. This is what all of the aftermarket elbows are built for .

Edelbrock makes a elbow now which I think is cheaper than most others.It has vaccum ports which is nice. If you know some one that has good welding skills and availability to aluminum or stainless , one can actually be built for cheap. Just have to make your own flanges. But most just buy the PTE, Wilson units

If you dont want to convert your intake...Their Victor EFI intake is a deal considering its already set up for FI. They have their own fuel rails which are sold separate. I just made some good power thru one of these unported.

The FAST unit you metioned sounds fine. For 1200 bux make use it has a FAST datalogger box included

[Dusty Bradford]

Originally Posted by Kid Turbine

Was wondering what should be a limit of boost for this turbo. Some guys just use it to about 25lbs, that was where i may stop the turbo. But some have been over the 30 - 40 pounds range.

Dusty, I looked at your timing suggestions and this what i am up with for this box, it can take out 1,2, or 3 degrees and start at 0,1,2,3,4, or 5 pounds. It can take up to 15 degrees out of total timing.


With 34 total timing it will be at 19 degrees at 19 lbs.

Meaning from 19 to 25 or whatever pounds the motor would be at 19 degrees timing.

So what is too low of timing or this is the best solution for the exterme temp from the boost. Or will it be a dog after all that timing coming out.

malibuick231 what is the higheset you take your s480 and what is your launch boost and timing also.

The car will still run fine with 18* of timing. With the cast heads I'd be looking at no more that 22* at 30# of boost so 20-24* at 20-24# of boost will be fine on C16. A S475 on your motor will probably only make 15-20# anyway. A buddy had a 406 with 75mm with AFR heads and could only make 16# at 6500 rpm.

[tom robison]

keep your eyes open and watch the sites for parts that are used, i found everthing i have on my motor used but never been out of the box for several hundred dollars less than new.

[malibuick231]

Im at 18 psi and 33 deg of timming.

[Kid Turbine]

Looking at a fast system,now!!!

And going to sell my 6al box, distributer, 2 step, coil, retard box, and carb.

And pick up a digital 6 box, crank trigger distributer, hvc coil, and crank trigger wheel. (without coil can get everything for 400)

Have my intake modified by someone like wilson or speedtech (whats a good efi fuel conversion kit to use)

intake elbow form edelbrock or intakeelbows.com

what size throttle body 75mm (2.95 in), 80mm (3.15 in), or 90 mm (3.5 in)

[Louie L.]

Intake elbows.com will do the conversion for much less than high priced wilson.

Ill say it again..Did you take a look at the Victor EFI intake? You should. Price is right.
For ignition Crane Hi 6 line and coils. You can buy combos for less than MSD. They are compact and powerfull. Also no pills to buy. Many of the TSM guys are using them and several V8 conversion cars as well.

80mm TB ..

[Kid Turbine]

Weiland 7530 intake (already have)
2800-7200 rpm stock
2800-7800 rpm with 3/4" spacer
3000-8200 rpm with 2" spacer

The edelbrock intake with rails looking at 500.00 so will the conversion of my intake and rails should not cost that much. And look at the rpm range on that intake which is 4500-8500 compared to mines with 2" spacer of 3000-8200. And the cam I am using will have a rpm range of 3500-6500.

So what does intakeelbows.com charge for efi intake conversion?

Also the digital 6 plus has no pills with 2 rev limits (launch/overrevv) and a single stage retard built in (nitrous or top end)

[tom robison]

Originally Posted by Kid Turbine

Also the digital 6 plus has no pills with 2 rev limits (launch/overrevv) and a single stage retard built in (nitrous or top end)

you won't need any of that with a fast system, its built in and you can control it.

[Kid Turbine]

i know the fast controls the timing by getting the signal from the ignition system (msd).

also while sourcing for parts, i ran across the gt45 y2004k turbo, t4 t66 turbo. what about twins using this turbo it has a 750 -1100 hp range.

[Kid Turbine]

i found one fast system for sell and call fast the box is a bank to bank fast classic system which they can't convert to sequential anymore. The tech said to get a sequential box with a turbo setup.

[Kid Turbine]

also what about a accel dfi gen. 7 system if i can't get a fast sequential system.

[Louie L.]

It will run in bank to bank just fine. FAST does not modify boxes any longer , but there are other ways. Hartline Performance can perform some of those modifications or have them done for you. I suggest you give cal or Holly a call, you may be better off getting a used Clasic unit from them or a new XFI. (321)722-1563

On another note, dont get too hung up on those intake RPM operating numbers. Remember that on a FI system , the intake is flowing dry, without fuel. The volume requirement is not the same.

Also when you get a quote from Wilsons on a FI conversion, post it, Their prices are HIGH!

[boosted6&8]

Originally Posted by Kid Turbine

i found one fast system for sell and call fast the box is a bank to bank fast classic system which they can't convert to sequential anymore. The tech said to get a sequential box with a turbo setup.

PM Craig Smith he can still convert the B2B last time I contacted him. I need to have mine done also, it's been awhile so I'm not sure about the cost. Let me know if you find out.

[tom robison]

Originally Posted by Kid Turbine

also what about a accel dfi gen. 7 system if i can't get a fast sequential system.

one of the best systems out there.

[HighPSI]

Originally Posted by Kid Turbine

also what about a accel dfi gen. 7 system if i can't get a fast sequential system.

We sell that system, too. All of today's systems will get you similar results, the key is getting someone that will support it.

[Kid Turbine]

Thanks guy,

With all the info I am receiving from you guys make me know why I joined this group, and also have meet some great people from this group . Dusty every OSCRA event in the south and Cal a brief second at Reynolds 07 (with Jim C) and Holly to buy some valve covers for my Turbo T. I bought a classis fast system and will have to get a v8 injector harness. I sold my msd stuff and picked up a digital 6 with a crank trigger system from a friend. And my turbo has changed again. I use to work at a diesel repair shop back home and was always thinking if certain turbos from diesels would work on cars. So i start ed with the bw s400 series turbos which is the main turbo for the detriot diesel 60 series engine and malibuick231 is using a s480. I went home this pass weekend and went to the track it had a good crowd of cars and few spectators. So around the barrel of fire I was talking with my buddy I haven't seen in awhile told him about my new build and talking about the turbo. He said, "come to the truck and look at this turbo he had removed (warrenty) from his 08 Pete. It is a 171701 borg warner turbo he replaced for other issues and the turbo was not the problem, he gave it to me . I called Bullseye Turbo today and they comfirmed it to be a s472 (72mm) with 1.32 a/r T6 frame . Come to find out that most of the borg warner turbos do not have core charges for a new turbo. My old job is saving any s400 series turbo for now on , and maybe I will getting in the business of getting them rebuilt and selling them . It is the same as any borg warner 72mm sold taday, it can't be called a s472 by borg warner (legal stuff) and can be upgraded to an 80mm (currently) or (next month) 83mm. Borg warner have 88mm and 91 mm turbos out there on 2008 - 2010 diesels.

I may be going twins!!!!!!!!!

Also the engine will be a built 9.5:1 421sbc with my current heads, since i saved some money now.

But anymore more info would be greatly aknowledged!!!!