Keeping the TTA Cool

[BradWE4]

I am having problems keeping my TTA cool, I have tried aluminum radiators with trans cooler removed (external coolers), high cfm dual fan setups, played with the coolant mix, just about everything i could think of. All the sensors are working correctly fans coming on when they should, all stock air dam is still there. Anyone with a stage two or stroked engine please chime in.

[Taffy]

Sell it and get a Grand National, then it would be cool. Just kiddin man.

Seriously though. Check to see if there are any big air pockets in the cooling system. Also check that the water pump is indeed good. Good luck.

Do you have a Front mount?

[mark b]

I see you said "played with coolant mix".

Did you try running distilled water and RMI-25?

Are you running a stage block? Are the water passages in the heads and block clean? I know people with 87 era Buick blocks are starting to see this problem which a lot of antique car people experience.

What condition is the water pump in? You might consider a higher capacity water pump and/or an underdrive pulley to get some more revolutions.

Finally, a fan-driver oil cooler will most definitely bring down block temps and water temps.

Just some ideas.....

[BM Computer Src]

I dont know if your still using the stock ECM or not. The stock ECM only commands the low speed fan on to keep it cool. The high speed fan is only on when A/C is on AND temp is Very high and speed is less than 45 MPH (roughly).

On my TTA, I wired a switch to my high speed fan (coolant sensor in top of intake manifold) and temps are now 180-190 or so in the florida heat. Used to go up to 220 before the switch. (both with A/C on)

Hope that helps.

Bob

[BradWE4]

I have tried RMI and distilled water to no avail. Engine recently rebuilt with a high volume front cover and water pump. Block, heads and intake all had passages cleaned. Engine is stoked, semi aggressive cam, block is .030 over heads ported and polished. Neck modded stock intercooler. I have already done the fan switch, I have an after-market dual fan setup that pulls 2500cfm, it is always on. While the car is sitting at idle with the AC on it is fine reaching 197 but as soon as you start to do any type of driving other than highway the temps soar to 220 with or without the AC on and the fans are working properly. It gets so hot that the starter starts so malfunction due to heat soak and I have a remote setup and a high torque starter with heat shield. It is embarrassing pulling in somewhere for a quick stop and then having to wait ten minutes with the fans on full blast and the hood up to be able to start the car again. Lately I've been acting as if i were tuning something at cruise-ins. Can't show weakness Sorry for the long post but after $1500 worth of cooling system I thought this problem would be solved. I have not yet tried the fan equipped external oil cooler so I guess that is the next step, only problem is I am running out of room under the hood. If that doesn't work I will probably switch this combo over to the WE4, and put the original engine back in the TTA. Any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated

[BM Computer Src]

may many rows does this radiator have? (3 or 4)?

[BradWE4]

3 rows. I think 1.25" tubes, It was made for cooling a big block in a thirdgen thought it would be more than sufficient

Are you sure all the front airdam pieces are in place? I took mine off one day to try and get more air into the IC, just for kicks I drove it about 10 miles on the highway and with both fans on high temps were 200degrees and I have never seen over 175ish in my car even in 90 degree weather.

Something is wrong, oil cooler isn't going to fix it.

[mark b]

Do you loose fluid at all? Is it possible there is a head crack or head gasket problem? I agree there is a problem somewhere.

I mentioned the oil cooler because there have been some guys in hot climates that added one and it took down their temps to "acceptable" levels after they did everything else.

How about Evans NPG as a last alternative?

[trading t/a]

I would suggest an overdrive pulley for the water pump and some evans npg(waterless coolant). Also have you checked the radiator cap is it the stocker from the old radiator? If so there may not be enough pressure in the system to keep it cool. There is suppose to be decent pressure in your system. By going with a larger radiator and a cap designed for the smaller one you may have lost pressure. All else fails take out the t-stat and see if it drops(I know it's a major pita)

There is a problem and it may be something as simple as the cap. Have you looked at the flow of the radiator while it's at operating temps to see if you have flow or just a trickle of coolant?

HTH

Pete

[BradWE4]

No lose of coolant, good flow through the hoses, I think that all the air dams are there. I have tried different caps 16lb and 7lb same result. I guess the AC condenser could be full of crap not letting enough air through to the radiator. I have tried a hollowed out stat with very minimal difference, maybe 1 or 2 degrees and that could just be coincidence. It seems to be an airflow problem because once up to highway speeds it is ok.

[trading t/a]

One last suggestion that doesn't cost too much. Order a Z28 airdam and notch it for the IC. There will be no reason other than a shoddy water pump that it shouln't run cool. I ripped those crappy pontiac air dams off both my t/a's imeediately. The Iroc/Z28 air dam is the only way to go IMHO. I think it was $18.

Good luck

[BradWE4]

Who makes modified water pumps for these cars or is better to use one of the smallblock pumps. Also, those of you that have stage 2's installed what kind of radiator are you using?
Thanks trading t/a I am going to try the iroc air dam tomorrow.

[mark b]

Are the fans sealed up against the radiator good with no gap on the sides? I know several people that have used weatherstripping or that piece on the firewall that seals to the hood to get a better fan to radiator seal. Apparently it really helps.

[BradWE4]

fans are sealed tight The fans I got cover the entire core perfectly. Even with the low profile fans there is a minuet bit of space separating the fans from the intercooler shroud. Couldn't go to a higher cfm fan. Is our water pump pulley the same as a GM smallblocks. I have found tons of underdrive pulleys but no over drive pulley.

[mark b]

I have to check the Evans NPG site - they offered pulleys and water pumps that are recommended with their system. They did have one for the GN/TR 3.8.

Not sure about the GM smallblock question....

Boy, I can feel your frustration just from all the positive things you have done!

[mark b]

Try here...

http://www.evanscooling.com/main25.htm

[trading t/a]

from the sounds of it it doesn't sound like an airflow problem. Usually if the airdam is messed up it will only heat up at highway speeds, yours is just the opposite. It definately sounds like either a bad waterpump or a bad rad. Have you verified that the coolant is that hot? You know these gauges aren't the most reliable. My gauge routinely measured 180+, but with a scanner on it it read 160-170. Are you overheating? I would look at getting a thermal meter to measure the temps. Could be a fan switch check to see when the fans come on(at what temp). Should be 207 or close to it(if it's stock still).

[GNandTTA]

This may help. If you look at the air dam in front of the radiator it is only a deflector to push the air up. Unfortunetly since there are no side baffles much of the air gets pushed to the sides and not the radiator. I made some baffles for both sides. Now any air that is directed toward the front of the car is forced into the radiator. The only problem is that now going up any type of curb is impossible. I have the solution but have not finished it yet. I am building a speed sensor to lower the baffles when the car is over 10 mph and obviously raise them when under. If you are going over a curb over 10 mph, scraping the baffles are the least of your worries.

Now for the important part: how much better did it cool? I have 2 LED's monted in the dash to tell when either one of the fans are on. I hooked them up directly to the fans wires. So at high speeds you can actually see the LED's light a little meaning that the air flow through the radiator is causing the fans to spin and inductively causing the LED's to light. Depending on speed without the baffles the LED's light very dim if at all. With the baffles they are much brighter. Car runs much much cooler (under 160), almost too cool. AC performance is also much better. All of this is on a untouched factory radiator with well over 100k on it.

[BradWE4]

I have verified with a thermal sensor, a scan tool and my autometer gauge. The stock gauge is off by quite a bit, it reads lower than actual. All three show with in 2 degrees. I have replaced all the sensors checked all of the wiring. I have the aftermarket fans hot wired for maximum efficiency. The water pump is from GM basically new, and I could believe one radiator being bad But I have tried 3 aluminum radiators from be-cool, CAS, and a custom that is for a big block swap into the third gen. All even the bigblock monster (which required "cutting" to get in) have had just about the same results.

[mark b]

Grapsing at straws now..... you could try the thermostat trick - drill a very small hole in it to help eliminate any steam pockets being developed in the system.

Curiosity - when you changed all the cooling items, did you powerflush the block from several directions?