I'm tired of my TTA not starting after it gets hot !

[turbotaone]

After my car gets hot and I turn it off , it won't start again
right away. I usually have to wait 15 or 20 minutes for it
to cool down before it will start. I understand that this is
a common problem with the TTA's , something to do with
the starter wire being to small and the starter also gets
heatsoaked. I have a cheap Autozone starter on the car
now , but I was wondering if a more expensive starter
would help my problem ? I have seen those new light
weight mini starters advertised for the Buick motors and
I thought about trying one of them,but I don't want to
spend the money on one if it won't fix the problem. I also
thought about trying some of that insulation that you wrap
around the starter to help shield it from the heat. Has any
one else had this problem,and if so how did you fix it ? I
know on a previous thread someone said they ran an extra
(heavier) wire from the starter up to the battery and when
the car wouldn't start they would touch the wire to the
positive terminal on the battery and it would start the car.
I might end up doing that if I can't fix it some other way.

Thanks James

[1BADDAM]

I had a hot start problem with the factory original. Since I swithched to the mini-starter from turbobuicks.com, not one problem. Old one was probably on the way out, since it had around 70k on it, so don't know if it will cure your problem, but hell at least it lightens the front of the car by about 10-12 lbs.

[roz930]

My bet would be a starter also. Go buy a QUALITY reman from G.M/Napa/Local jobber that you trust. Autozone is a buying group that fills their shelves with parts primarily from "lowest bidder". A lifetime warranty is pretty much useless when you have to replace the part repeatedly because of possible poor quality. I own a small jobber auto parts store and the "lifetime warranty" topic comes up routinely. Hey, I can give you a lifetime warranty on $hit - I've got nothing in it, and I'm not the one crawling under the car to change it when it fails. Sorry to rant, but honestly, I'd put money on the starter. Good Luck There is an old saying - "The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is gone", or something like that

[turbotaone]

Thanks guys, I'll try a new starter.

[GNandTTA]

Had this problem 10 years ago. Ran a 10g wire from the VATS relay to the starter. Never happened again. Still have the FACTORY starter.

[SuperTTA]

Hey James,
I ran into the same problem as you.
I wrapped the starter/solenoid in fiberglass heat wrap, resistant to 800F.
I did the 10G wire from the relay to the starter...helped, but then one day it didn't start.
I am using an autozone rebuild also. Even got another starter and same thing.
I added a Ford (curse word) solenoid to my car and it has been fine for almost 2 years now.
I used the 10G wire I added and ran it to the solenoid and then ran a 10G wire from the starter post to the solenoid and then another 10G wire to the starters solenoid.
Works great. I would like a mini starter though.
Later,
James

[fly89gta]

I used a Ford solonoid and relocated it behind the right side strut tower, problem solved

[mrtransam3]

I replaced just the stock starter solenoid with a new GM one. That fixed the problem for about six months. The problem I was told by Gm techline is that the wire that triggers the solenid (from key to solenoid -VATs relay) is too small and can't supply enough amps to engage the solenoid. I took a 30 amp relay and put it down near the starter. I used the factory start wire to trigger the relay. For power I just connected to the starter battery cable and then ran my relay feed to the solenoid trigger. I have not had a problem since. I think I wouldn't have had to replace the solenoid in the first place, just put the relay in

[1badTTA]

You guys need to quit replacing starters and relays, it won't help a thing permanently. If you measure the voltage at the starter solenoid with the key in the start position (when it wont start) you will see that it is only 6-7vdc which isn't enough to engage ANY starter solenoid. I am the one with an extra wire to the battery (normally just tucked back into the wire loom) and only did this as a temp fix. I will eventually get around to running it all the way to the VATS as soon as I get tired of popping the hood to start it (already)

You can add a relay or go FURD style which will work, but it is the wires fault and not the starters, so why use a bandaid approach?

[fly89gta]

Originally posted by 1badTTA
You can add a relay or go FURD style which will work, but it is the wires fault and not the starters, so why use a bandaid approach?

Because relocating the solonoid is just as easy

[SuperTTA]

1badtta,
That is what the ford solenoid fixes. I get over 12 volts to the starter solenoid now instead of 10 volts or so.
You are correct, if you check the voltage at each point in the system, you can document the drop....ignition switch, neutral safety switch, starter enable relay, then finally the purple wire to the starter. You can fix the start problem by just connecting the yellow and purple wires...or just take a 10 gage wire and hook it to the yellow. It bypasses the vats system.

With the ford solenoid, the voltage to engage the solenoid on the starter is the same as the battery. Problem fixed for 2 years. Ford solenoids are pretty reliable too.
I like the stealth of the relay at the starter, but it is subject to the same heat as the starter.
James

[GNandTTA]

All that is needed to fix it is a larger gauge wire from the VATS relay to the solenoid. You can even tuck the wire in the factory loom so no one will know. Mine has been fixed for over 10 years now and I've done this to 2 other TTA's. Problem solved for about $2 in wire.

[Lee_Burough]

As our cars get older, this issue may come up more often. Is this a TTA specific fix? Or, does the TR have this same issue with starting?

[turbotaone]

Hey GNandTTA would you please explain in a little
more detail how to run the larger wire from the VATS
relay to the starter. I would like to try this but I'm not
even sure where the VATS relay is located. What gauge
wire should I use and do I just put it on the larger post
of the solenoid along with the factory wires ?

Thanks James

[GNandTTA]

The VATS relay is inside the cavity behind the drivers side kick panel. There may be some black insulation covering the hole. Remove this and you will see the relay. There is a heavy gauge yellow and purple wire. The purple one is the one you want. I would start at the solenoid. I put a ring terminal on the end of the new 10g wire so I could attach it correcty to the solenoid stud. The purple wire is inside a black wire loom. It's been a while but I believe the purple wire goes into the black wire loom a few inches from the solenoid. The loom is routed toward the passenger side. Just tuck your new wire inside that loom. It will take a while to correctly hide the wire inside the loom. The loom ends up going toward the heater box and finally inside the cabin near the steering shaft. Right before the loom goes through the firewall have your new wire exit the loom and run the wire through the firewall via the big rubber plug near the steering shaft. Solder your new 10g wire to the purple wire right by the relay. It is crucial to get a good connection otherwise you may as well not even bother doing it. When you are done you will always be able to start your car. And it only cost a few bux.

[turbota]

Same problem at 37,000 miles. Ran the 10 gage wire --- Problem Gone. Turbota

[turbotaone]

Thanks for the detailed instructions GNandTTA. I'm
going to get some 10g wire tomorrow and give it a try.

James