Head bolts and Heads

[prokeep15]

First off are the headbolts torque yeild(?)? And secondly since the heads are off the car are is there anything special I need to do to them? What I mean is I went into an engine builders shop and was just asking them how much a hot tanking would be but the owner of the shop went on and on about how I have to sign a wavier if I got them hot tanked since they're not going to be doing anything with the valves, something about a furnace, and blah blah blah. So is there some sort of danger of just getting the heads cleaned and putting them back on?

[Jan Larsson]

Head bolts are torque yeild, most people change to the ARP bolts. Johnsperformance.com carries the ARP head bolt set.

[macatoni]

I took no risks and had the heads milled to make sure they where flat! Did u blow a headgasket? Why are the heads off the car. Personally i say do everything while its off instead of dealing with it after. I did a valve job, seals, and new springs all for under $250 at my local machine shop. Not to mention u cant beat how these things look clean!!!!

[prokeep15]

Well the tranny's out for a while getting rebuilt and I fugured now would be a good time to change all the gaskets, the headgasket never blew ever and everything in there is in pretty good shape, I just wanted to refresh everything since its going to be getting beat on when everythings back together. The motor had some significant leaks in due to old gaskets.

[1BADDAM]

Originally Posted by prokeep15

the headgasket never blew ever

You broke the factory seal....................

[prokeep15]

LOL whats wrong with that??

[Razor]

For those in the future.. Dont Break The Factory HG seal.

You will now have a better likely hood of blowing a head gasket. The stock head gaskets would of probably held up to 30+ PSI boost.. not any more.

Your machine shop is rite.. if you tank the heads, they'll need to be gone through. Valve job, surface, seals, guides, seats, etc..

You just opened pandora's box...

[prokeep15]

So what if factory headgaskets are going back on? I guess I don't understand if its still staying stock.

[Quiky One]

What Razor is saying and everybody else is too is that the factory headgaskets could not of been put on better. They were all torqued down at the same time so they were "crushed" to the head equally. Not one bolt at a time increasing the chance of a leak or head lift. There is no way you can torque them down at the same time again.

HTH Jason

[TClassic]

Originally Posted by 1BADDAM

You broke the factory seal....................

Yea, I've been saying this for YEARS, and everytime I happen to mention it on TBS.com they jump ALL OVER ME!! JO's....

Anyhow I agree Wholeheartedly jason

[prokeep15]

so then whats the best way to get close to how the factory did? just tighten them slowly and keep it relatively even?

[Razor]

Originally Posted by prokeep15

so then whats the best way to get close to how the factory did? just tighten them slowly and keep it relatively even?

She was an 18 year old virgin till you got your hands on her.. now its gonna be hard to keep her under control

Put new gaskets, follow procedures, cross your fingers, click your heals twice.. hope your assembly was done correctly.

You will get 100 different opinions on how to do this, as will there be 100 different theories.

Clean, absolutely flat, smooth, oil free surfaces(deck/heads) and a calibrated TQ wrench.. The ARP bolts will require modifications to the headers, the factory bolts are TQ to yield and must not be re-used..

Stock car, Felpro PT9441 and ARP bolts TQ to 85 ft lbs in 3 steps. This is how I do them. 40,60,80,85.

Pandoras box...

You created 200 dollars worth of un-needed headache.

[Razor]

Originally Posted by Razor

You created 200 dollars worth of un-needed headache.

I could be wrong on this figure due to any issues that can pop up.

Gaskets are 60
bolts are ~70
Surface heads ~60
Stuff that pops up....???$$$ from improper surfacing, prep, header clearancing, leaks, etc..

[prokeep15]

what about cometic gaskets...head rebuilder recommended them. I know I asked this before but he said the multi layer steels will pop the same without stressing the cylinder wall from the metal o-rings.

[Quiky One]

Cometics are tough. They will not blow as easy as the felpros will. In fact many guys say you will blow a piston through the block before you blow the headgasket. Ask Grumpy, he ran the cometics and showed pics of the carnage.


Jason

[prokeep15]

haha k...thanks a lot guys on give me such feedback! Hey razor it sounds like you've done the headgasket before to...is it really as bad as you make it sound to be after removing heads, like constant trouble? when you say do it in stages what do you mean? do each bolt 40 40 40 40...then 60 60 60 60...etc? I was thinking to get another buddy and start on the out side bolts first farthest from each other then just take our time(alot of time) and keep it as even as possible....on another note is taking off virgin heads on any car really bad since I'm figuring all machines perfectly spec them? oh yea and what do you mean by headers modification for the arp bolts?

[Razor]

Do a search under head gasket on this site.. you'll see plenty.

Get a manual to work on the engine, it will show you the TQ sequence. Then follow the TQ sequence start at 40 all bolts, then 60, then 80, then 85.

You'll need a grinder to make the arp head bolts work due to the height of the washer and bolt head being taller than the stock GM bolts. Hence the grinding on the headers. Some will install the bolts without the washers to gain clearance, ARP recommends the washers. It will be your call what you want to do.

IF assembled properly, it shouldnt give you any issue. Do some reading on the board using the search function.
HTH

[prokeep15]

Well I just got off the phone with cottons, RJC,and Century tranny, and their all swearing by cometics...So I think I'll stick with them till my bottom end sh*ts out (knock on wood) Whats a better scan tool than t-link cause all i'm getting right now is like .7fps? anyone else had this problem? Actually I have a good question...when everyone saying use felpro and not the other brands cause they'll blow your bottom end...how much knock are we talking about? is it like 7-8 and the cometics blow your read end, or something thats going to blow a HG no matter what? I guess boost factors in here, so lets say something hypothetical like 7-8knock at 27psi? Is a cometic gonna destroy my motor?

[Quiky One]

At 27 psi stuff happens fast. Theoretically, anything that will blow a felpro gasket and not a cometic gasket, can blow the entire motor. Get direct scan instead of Tlink. DS offers up to 18 updates per second with more than 60 data points per frame. Like you said .7 is slow.

HTH

[Razor]

Look at TTA1092.. been on Felpro's since Nov '04 and a bazillion track passes.

Look at Joejr.. torched the felpro.. went to the cometic.. torched a piston. And Joe is a smart guy.. pays attention.. but the fuse didnt let go..

If you have forged pistons.. run a stronger HG.. if not.. then why do you want a fuse with a higher rating than GM recommended.

You dont have experience tuning one of these cars. If you did.. you would of left the HG's alone, and not been asking all these questions. Put the car back to stock.. and figure it out/have fun.

careful what you ask for. And careful on tuning when you start cranking on the boost rod. Very very easy to burn a hole into a piston.

HTH

[prokeep15]

Do the felpro's need any sealant? By the way thank you all for helping educate me! Julio especially you, I really must be running your patience short! I just like to know all options and why people suggest what. At least the next time some guy thinks about doing heads on a perfectly fine car he'll see all of this!!