electronic boost controller with 3rd gear boost setting?

Blazer406 · #1 (**permalink**) May 3rd, 2007, 04:24 PM

Does anyone make a boost controller that will control the boost electronically... and provide an input to change the boost to another setting when I go into high gear....

Internal wastegate

No CO2 ....... (daily driver capable... limited strip action)

I really want a controller that has an easy adjustment.... that will hit the same boost level regardless of temperature.... it needs to be where I can turn it down to a minimum setting (I assume this setting will be wherever the wastegate rod is set).... and be able to cut it back up to say 25 psi... no fiddling to tweak it to 25 psi.... and yet have a separate input... that when triggered... will scale the boost back to say 23 psi... when I trigger it.....

Oh.... reasonably priced would be a plus....

I was looking at the Greddy ProfecB SpecII, but it doesn't have third gear scaling I don't think.

BlackBandit · #2 (**permalink**) May 3rd, 2007, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blazer406

Oh.... reasonably priced would be a plus....

That's going to be the big hiccup!

The profec b spec II is a nice unit but you set the boost via wastegate duty cycle which requires a little trial and error to hit your desired boost. You could probably wire something up to activate it's high low feature to scale back the boost in third gear though. HTH james

Quick6'n'-K.C. · #3 (**permalink**) May 3rd, 2007, 08:17 PM

Well, controlling 3rd gear boost creep can be controlled with the BSTC controller, but also be cut down to a minimum with not cranking down on the wastegate rod and enlarging the diameter puck hole on the turbo exhaust housing.

If you enlarge your hole... man that sounds bad.... open your...dammit..

Alright, grind the wastegate puck hole in the turbo charger exhaust housing and do not crank down on the wastegate rod too tight to get the boost up.

Running a boost command controller has a knob on the back for 3rd gear knock down, Mike Licht sells these and i have it on my daily driver

They usually are on sale at BG.

If you run 2 boost solenoids (caspers sells the harness, maybe mike too) you will have 14psi of boost control from your low setting.

Are you going to be running that te60 turbo?

BW

TTA850 · #4 (**permalink**) May 3rd, 2007, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blazer406

I really want a controller that has an easy adjustment.... that will hit the same boost level regardless of temperature.... it needs to be where I can turn it down to a minimum setting (I assume this setting will be wherever the wastegate rod is set).... and be able to cut it back up to say 25 psi... no fiddling to tweak it to 25 psi.... and yet have a separate input... that when triggered... will scale the boost back to say 23 psi... when I trigger it.....

Sounds like you want a closed loop system, the only one I have experience with is the Innovative MSBC-1. It has it's own map sensor and will give you whatever boost you set it to every time, no guess work. It also has a launch stage and multiple stage functions along with timers and bent ramps that might accomplish what your looking to do and is good for a street car, I've been using one for the last 6 years.. The down side is the $695 price tag

Welcome to Innovative Turbo Systems

Also from Exile, same $695 price

http://www.exileturbo.com/products/i...sp?idProduct=4

HTH,
Steve

Blazer406 · #5 (**permalink**) May 3rd, 2007, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quick6'n'-K.C.

Are you going to be running that te60 turbo?
BW

The TE60 is going to be my backup turbo.... I am in the process of getting a Limit TE45A from a friend.... HD actuator.....

I was planning on running it turned all the way down.... (around 18 psi I guess?) and use a real boost controller to go up from there.... but I wanted a closed loop one I guess.... Otherwise... I don't see it any better (well much better) than using an adjustable manual controller... it would be pretty easy to make a two stage controller with two manual controllers and two wastegate solenoids...

But what I really want.... is if I am at the track... running say 23 psi..... and I am back in the pits.... and I desire to cut it up to 24 psi..... I can do that without making a pass and adjusting it while gassing on the car and watching the boost gauge... .that is not super smart... plus it is too easy to cut it up too much and maybe scatter the motor......

Like I said... don't know if there is a reasonably priced boost controller that will do what I am after.....

I was looking at the MSD about a year ago.... it seemed to have lots of adjustability with a laptop.....

I guess to have the best of everything... you have to go to CO2 control of your wastegate through a closed loop system.... then you could have say a 5 psi launch.... with a timed ramp up to full boost and then scale the boost back in high gear..... It seems this is not feasable for a primarily street driven car.....

Blazer406 · #6 (**permalink**) May 3rd, 2007, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TTA850

Sounds like you want a closed loop system, the only one I have experience with is the Innovative MSBC-1. It has it's own map sensor and will give you whatever boost you set it to every time, no guess work. It also has a launch stage and multiple stage functions along with timers and bent ramps that might accomplish what your looking to do and is good for a street car, I've been using one for the last 6 years.. The down side is the $695 price tag

Welcome to Innovative Turbo Systems

Also from Exile, same $695 price

http://www.exileturbo.com/products/i...sp?idProduct=4

HTH,
Steve

I am curious how it does that without C02 control of the wastegate actuator.... the way I see it (which could be wrong).... your minimum sustained boost while on the throttle... is never going to be any lower than the spring setting in your wastegate actuator.... unless you are controlling the actuator with some external pressure source (i.e. Co2)... through a fancy closed loop controller... with a MAP sensor...

Is this correct?

1BADDAM · #7 (**permalink**) May 4th, 2007, 01:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blazer406

I was looking at the Greddy ProfecB SpecII, but it doesn't have third gear scaling I don't think.

It has a hi/low setting that can be used to do this. I have it wired to my cruise control button.

Thread

I had the Boost Commander, which does the 3rd gear scaling. It worked fine, and is a great unit for the money, but even scaling back the boost in 3rd didn't cure my creep issues and found you still have to fine tune it all the time to get the boost you want.

With the Greddy, no creep, same rock solid boost setting everytime.

Quick6'n'-K.C. · #8 (**permalink**) May 4th, 2007, 09:00 PM

Just get that fancy 5 bar map sensor boost controller and point at it with your finger to tell it what to do.
It basically will do what ever you want it to do, as it has its own map sensor built into the control system and you will not get any boost creep.

Buddy of mine just put Julios meth kit and that 5 bar boost controller on his wicked fast EVO.. Pretty much do what its told.

Why not just tune it for set boost and not fiddle with controlling the boost?
BW

RatFink · #9 (**permalink**) May 5th, 2007, 12:24 AM

I've been using a HKS controller for about 15 years. Mine's an older version, I think they now have a boost controller that can work in conjuction with your fuel curve. Mine just controls boost. it's a digital/electronic controller that fits inside the car that runs to another piece under the hood that actually t's into the turbo. It has a valet setting, middle, high and manual. I set the manual knob to whatever I can get by with without knocking. Usually 22-23 lbs with alcy. When I hit 4th gear it tends to boost creep with the electric dump open so I hit the high setting and close the dump and it comes under control to about 18 lbs for a top end run. Scared to run high boost in 4th gear. It doesn't boost creep though on the manual setting if the exhaust is already closed. My TE44 with a 2800 stall C shoots to 22lbs of boost in less than a second, blows the Drag radials off. You may want to check into it. I've never seen another Buick running one, I think HKS is more popular with the ricers, but I think it works pretty good. I'll attach a photo of what it looks like in the car as well as a few links to hks's website. I like the unit and it's performed well since I got it. I think it spools faster too.
http://www.turbotransam.com/cgi-bin/...getimage&id=59

The following link is a PDF of my unit's manual

http://www.hksusa.com/content/pdf1739.pdf

Also, check out this link:
HKS USA EVC Boost Controller

TTA850 · #10 (**permalink**) May 5th, 2007, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blazer406

I am curious how it does that without C02 control of the wastegate actuator.... the way I see it (which could be wrong).... your minimum sustained boost while on the throttle... is never going to be any lower than the spring setting in your wastegate actuator.... unless you are controlling the actuator with some external pressure source (i.e. Co2)... through a fancy closed loop controller... with a MAP sensor...

Is this correct?

I use manifold pressure and your right, my minimum boost setting is what the spring in my wastegate is. In my case it's about 5 psi, and I have rock solid adjustable on the fly boost control from that point up, so far I've been to 28psi. I set my wastgate to the lowest possible setting and control the boost from there with the controller, it also minimizes any boost spikes.

Steve

Scott Atk · #11 (**permalink**) May 5th, 2007, 10:51 AM

The Greddy should do what you want. I use a microswitch on my shifter, but you could tap into the 3rd gear switch wires in the trans. just as easy.

Here's a little more info. There is a switch on the greddy that you toggle between hi and lo. You can also use an 1/8
" stereo plug and use an external switch, which is what I did.
Those with Greddy Probfec B and trans brake

Blazer406 · #12 (**permalink**) May 6th, 2007, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quick6'n'-K.C.

Just get that fancy 5 bar map sensor boost controller and point at it with your finger to tell it what to do.
It basically will do what ever you want it to do, as it has its own map sensor built into the control system and you will not get any boost creep.

Buddy of mine just put Julios meth kit and that 5 bar boost controller on his wicked fast EVO.. Pretty much do what its told.

Why not just tune it for set boost and not fiddle with controlling the boost?
BW

Are you talking about the Innovative? MSBC-1?

Quick6'n'-K.C. · #13 (**permalink**) May 7th, 2007, 06:56 PM

Im not sure of the exact model, but its very expensive. That one you listed has a 80psi pressure switch, so i would assume so.
I just havent seen the car in about a month.

BW

Blazer406 · #14 (**permalink**) May 7th, 2007, 07:10 PM

After some reading last night.... the Apexi AVC-R looks promising....

Similar to Greddy ProfecB except it is a closed loop system... you can set a target boost... and it will go from there.... once it "learns" your car... it is supposed to be sweet.

I see a few used ones on FleaBay...

Used is around $300
New ranges from $460 up to about $600

It is advertised as "closed loop" boost control. Now I need to figure out if I can externally trigger a low boost setting.... for when I hit high gear...

Also... I saw the HKS EVC IV is a closed loop type controller... it seems to be more cumbersome to fiddle with... small buttons that are poorly marked.... but still capable.

Obviously the newer controllers that replaced the two above would also work... but more $$

1BADDAM · #15 (**permalink**) May 7th, 2007, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blazer406

After some reading last night.... the Apexi AVC-R looks promising....

Similar to Greddy ProfecB except it is a closed loop system... you can set a target boost... and it will go from there.... once it "learns" your car... it is supposed to be sweet.

I don't know about the regular Greddy Profec B, but the Greddy Profec B spec II is a closed loop system - w/ a 4 bar map. Picked it up on "fleabay" for $200.

Blazer406 · #16 (**permalink**) May 7th, 2007, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1BADDAM

I don't know about the regular Greddy Profec B, but the Greddy Profec B spec II is a closed loop system - w/ a 4 bar map. Picked it up on "fleabay" for $200.

I haven't found any literature that mentions "closed loop"... or "target boost setting"

I want to tell it 24 psi.... and it will only boost to 24 psi.

I see the greddy mention "start boost" and "boost gain" ..... the boost gain is a % ...... at least from what I can read.....

It would be nice if the Greddy would adjust itself "closed loop".... it seems there are more Greddy ProfecB Spec II users on here than Apexi AVC-R users...... it is nice to have some real tech support available... here on the boards....