TSE class in BG

[D.W.]

Some good comments on what can happen to a race class if things get out of control and what eventually happens to the original intent of the class.

http://www.t6p.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14187&page=3


D.W.

[laz]

Hey i have had friends race tse for years and had fun we did not always win .I for one cant see how someone can build a nice stock looking car that runs 9.50s and not have the safety equipment to be able to race it anywhere .I think the classes intent was stock appearing but some of us rather have a car we can race and drive and to race at any nhra track, you need a 10 point cage,5 point seat belts ,window net ,jacket, pants ,neck collar ,helmet and all the sfi stuff on the engine . Now if you want to build a car to race at the gs nats and there only you can run TSE without a cage or much safety equipment .

[TurboIndian]

laz that is why the class needs to be changed to TSR - Turbo Street Red

[BillyRValentine]

Originally Posted by TurboIndian

laz that is why the class needs to be changed to TSR - Turbo Street Red

C'mon now if he wasn't as good as he is at what he does no one would really have an issue with the man regarding this class would they. What is it that he does that always seems to bring this type of comment on?

Jim C.

[BillyRValentine]

Laz, congrats on the new times. I hope to see you and Roy in Reynolds in a few months.

Jim C.

[TurboIndian]

Originally Posted by BillyRValentine

C'mon now if he wasn't as good as he is at what he does no one would really have an issue with the man regarding this class would they. What is it that he does that always seems to bring this type of comment on?

Jim C.

Red is damn good at what he does, there is no question about it. have you been to the National the last 2 years to see why they protested the 2 cars that were major competition? they are protesting safty issues (not the lack of, but to much safty equipment). as for 2005 yes Lopez was in the wrong with the tire size, but that 1/10th of & " is petty BS. in other classes people had many more issues about being a legal car the the friends that they were said AHH hell let him race.

[BillyRValentine]

Originally Posted by TurboIndian

Red is damn good at what he does, there is no question about it. have you been to the National the last 2 years to see why they protested the 2 cars that were major competition?

Yes I have.

Originally Posted by TurboIndian

they are protesting safty issues (not the lack of, but to much safty equipment).

I am not sure I understand but then again when I let my hair grow out it is blonde.

Originally Posted by TurboIndian

as for 2005 yes Lopez was in the wrong with the tire size, but that 1/10th of & " is petty BS. in other classes people had many more issues about being a legal car the the friends that they were said AHH hell let him race.

I understand what you are saying but I also know that it wasn't Red that protested the car.

Jim C.

[Louie L.]

No it was not Red, he doesnt get his hands dirty with this stuff. But his "boys" do. The same ones that protested the Garcia car this time. My car and Garcias car are & were the safest cars in that class..bar none. Both cars had the necessary safety equipment for the speeds attained.

[BillyRValentine]

Originally Posted by Louie L.

No it was not Red, he doesnt get his hands dirty with this stuff. But his "boys" do. The same ones that protested the Garcia car this time.

Louie, just as you stated it was not Red and he didn't get anyone to do it either. The one thing that I learned this year by watching most of the stuff that I did while at the nats was that Red doesn't influence anyone. Everyone that hangs out with him is their own person and some of those same people peer tech to the Nth degree from what I saw. As I stated in another post the man mostly sits, watches and laughs. He has his opinion about things but then we all do and at least the man doesn't mince words unlike some that I watched while I was there. I had NO bias one way or the other regarding Red or the TSE class but did watch very closely the antics of a good many of the racers this year. I was surprised at some of the shucking and jiving going on in person and the petty high school sh*t that was said and done. Bystanders hear and see allot more than people think. You would be surprised how much I see by just blending in and watching the stuff around the pits.

Originally Posted by Louie L.

My car and Garcias car are & were the safest cars in that class..bar none. Both cars had the necessary safety equipment for the speeds attained.

I believe you but the issue wasn't safety to my knowledge. It was more related to asthetics and how they relate to the rules from what I saw. I wish you the best and take care.

Jim C.

[Boost]

I understand what you are saying but I also know that it wasn't Red that protested the car.

Louie, just as you stated it was not Red and he didn't get anyone to do it either

Jim, I am not saying this to create any controversy, just to set the record straight. When I asked Bob to ask the racers for a "racers vote", to vote us in or out, Bob went to ask the protesting group and told them we wanted a vote and without Mr. Armstrong knowing that I was standing behind him, he told Bob and Ron that we were not legal and "that was it" ( he was defenitely amongst the protestors) and also, the racers could not get together to vote anybody in or out. The gentleman that headed the protest was Mr. Parvin, I beleive he was also Mr. Lopez's protestor the previous year. We were asked to "please" leave the class (TSE) to prevent controversy, at first I declined, to me our entry was just as, if not more legal than any other participant, the only thing that I could think about was all those long hours of work down the drain. Seeing that we were not wanted there, we asked the TSL group if they would adopt us and they ALL said gladly, come on up.(Thanks again guys !)

We've spent countless hours building our car to meet the rules, not walking a fine line, but to meet the rules as stated. To us what is "minor", "they" interpret as "major", to us "major" would be a "minitub". The holes in the bumper changes the appearance from stock appearing to a "race car". The main problem falls on "interpretation" of the rule and that is where we differ. We will make some aesthetic changes for next years BG, TSE participation to see if the RRA and us are on the same page.

No big deal with us, though, Jim...if the interpretation goes the other way, we'll ask the gentlemen in TSL if we can move up and adopt an orphan (again), and go play there, if not, we'll t&t, just to go and play with all you Buick gearheads, is worth the trip to us.

Laz, congrats on the new times. I hope to see you and Roy in Reynolds in a few months.

Thank you, Jim, I hope we can...getting closer...almost two months away.

[BillyRValentine]

Originally Posted by Boost

Jim, I am not saying this to create any controversy, just to set the record straight. When I asked Bob to ask the racers for a "racers vote", to vote us in or out, Bob went to ask the protesting group and told them we wanted a vote and without Mr. Armstrong knowing that I was standing behind him, he told Bob and Ron that we were not legal and "that was it" ( he was defenitely amongst the protestors) and also, the racers could not get together to vote anybody in or out. The gentleman that headed the protest was Mr. Parvin, I beleive he was also Mr. Lopez's protestor the previous year. We were asked to "please" leave the class (TSE) to prevent controversy, at first I declined, to me our entry was just as, if not more legal than any other participant, the only thing that I could think about was all those long hours of work down the drain. Seeing that we were not wanted there, we asked the TSL group if they would adopt us and they ALL said gladly, come on up.(Thanks again guys !)

From what I am understanding you are stating that he did not protest you but more-so stated his opinion and voted "no" when asked regarding the "racers vote"; yes?

Originally Posted by Boost

We've spent countless hours building our car to meet the rules, not walking a fine line, but to meet the rules as stated. To us what is "minor", "they" interpret as "major", to us "major" would be a "minitub".

Roy, I would not argue that you did in fact build your car to meet the rules. I would also say you have, as many have in all types of racing myself included, taken advantage of the supposed "grey" areas of the rules. While we may interpret rules differently we all know when we are walking the line and most realize that WHEN not IF we get protested what the outcome will be -the boot. It has happened to me several times when I ran the 5.50 classes. If we didn't then the car would be built to err on the side of caution and would be well within the specs not at the edge. The fact that you added metal into the wheel well in any area would leave some to believe that it is in fact a form of mini tubbing. How much overall area (width) did it add and how wide was the strip? It is my contention that when the rule was written it was meant as allowing beating the piss out of the inner wheel well with a hammer or removing the outer trim ring.

Originally Posted by Boost

The holes in the bumper changes the appearance from stock appearing to a "race car".

I believe that the class was meant to be a "Stock Appearing" class within reason. Having said that, I would venture to say yes that the holes in the bumper would make it appear as more of a TSL car but I do understand your point and again this is JMO.

Originally Posted by Boost

The main problem falls on "interpretation" of the rule and that is where we differ.

I agree.

Originally Posted by Boost

We will make some aesthetic changes for next years BG, TSE participation to see if the RRA and us are on the same page. No big deal with us, though, Jim...if the interpretation goes the other way, we'll ask the gentlemen in TSL if we can move up and adopt an orphan (again), and go play there, if not, we'll t&t, just to go and play with all you Buick gearheads, is worth the trip to us.

Glad to hear it and I wish ya'll well.

Originally Posted by Boost

Thank you, Jim, I hope we can...getting closer...almost two months away.

Look forward to seeing you there and I wish you luck no matter which class you run in. I know you will keep em on their toes at the tree.

JC