Grand National or LS1 F-Body???

[GNJesse]

i have an 87 Gn that i just restored. new paint, wheels, 550 h.p. motor, built trans etc. its alll done up right. but the thing is, ive owned 2 third gen f bodys and i loved them, they were nice and low and they handled pretty good. ive always wanted an ls1 trans am with a six speed and if i sold my gn i could afford a nice one. i just dont know what to do caus ei know i have a nice gn sittin in my garage but i wwant an f body soo bad. what do you guys think? i woould be doin all kinds of stuff to the trans am such as heads, cam, clutch, 12 bolt. but it seems like that car might end up being more expesive to build up then my gn and prolly not as fast. What do you guys think i should do? any help would be appreciated. thanks.

Jesse

[XLR8]

Get a TTA?

[Tin Man]

I have both. 87 GN in sig and a 2000 SS 6-speed. You really need to ask yourself what you want in the car. Here is how I see my cars.

LS1 - great daily driver, handles well, has been very reliable, all around great car, big (and growing) aftermarket, weak rear-end (if you want to drag and launch well you will break it), poor clutch.
GN - not a daily driver, doesnt handle near as well as the LS1, discontinued parts, fairly inexpensive to make fast, awesome straight line car.

I would never consider selling the GN but have considered selling the camaro for a truck.

FWIW

[INTERCOOLED]

Originally Posted by XLR8

Get a TTA?

I second that!

[72firebird]

Originally Posted by XLR8

Get a TTA?

yup I agree, but I'm kind of partial to them. Guess it just depends on what you plan on doing with the car. For a daily driver you can't beat the LS1, for a weekend cruiser a GN or TTA is more fun and more rare.

My brother has a 98 Trans Am 6 sp with heads, cam, 4.10 gears, and long tubes. The car is really nice and a good daily driver but doesn't get nearly the same attention as my TTA (well besides for when he's running open headers with a cam that has a 110 LSA). In town the LS1 gets much better gas mileage and it's a little better on the highway (my TTA and his TA are close though on the highway). For mods if you want to build something badass like low 10s I would go with an LS1 style car and use a truck 6.0L motor and build a nice single turbo setup. For a low 12s to mid 11s the TTA and GN are nice and don't require very much work.

[jdpolzin]

After noticing this trend for us TB guys, it's very funny that almost all of us want a LS1 car. In my opinion, we want them becuase we lack the GROWL that those cars have! Otherwise why woould we want one? Our cars are classic cars, only going up in value and nestalgia, extremely rare, and still blow the doors off of almost anything. I also say if I get an LS1 car, I would have to still have a TB because it's like anything else, once you have one for a while and you see that they are like as*holes in that everybody has one, the thrill will wear off and then you'll miss your old car!! -----Jeremy

[72firebird]

Originally Posted by jdpolzin

After noticing this trend for us TB guys, it's very funny that almost all of us want a LS1 car. In my opinion, we want them becuase we lack the GROWL that those cars have! Otherwise why woould we want one? Our cars are classic cars, only going up in value and nestalgia, extremely rare, and still blow the doors off of almost anything. I also say if I get an LS1 car, I would have to still have a TB because it's like anything else, once you have one for a while and you see that they are like as*holes in that everybody has one, the thrill will wear off and then you'll miss your old car!! -----Jeremy

Well if you drive an LS1 they're really fun. I enjoy driving my brothers TA and it's more comfortable than my TTA. I would like to have an LS1 for a daily driver to just do like heads, cam, and maybe a single turbo setup. What's really nice is even when you're running low 10s even high 9s the LS1 can be very streetable and still get 25 mpg on the highway.

[87 Pete]

Don't sell your GN to buy a TA. They have been depreciating like a rock. My bro just sold his '00 55k mile TA, still with a GM warranty for $9500.

I also have a '99 TA and a GN. I like both cars, they are about the best bang-for-the-buck GM ever made.

The TA is way cheaper to mod, parts are plentiful, and an LS1 has an awesome top-end charge, especially 6-speeds. They handle light-years better than the GN, and the seats kick ass. It is true that the rear-ends suck though. Also watch out for LS1 piston-slap on winter startups.

GN's probably launch a lot harder than a stock LS1, and are only going to go up in value. They are getting more and more rare. I say buy a cheap high-mileage LS1, and have the best of both worlds

Pete

[72firebird]

Originally Posted by 87 Pete

[b]
The TA is way cheaper to mod, parts are plentiful, and an LS1 has an awesome top-end charge, especially 6-speeds. They handle light-years better than the GN, and the seats kick ass. It is true that the rear-ends suck though. Also watch out for LS1 piston-slap on winter startups.


Pete

The piston slap is more common in the truck motors, especially the 6.0L. However no one has really been able to find the problem as far as I know. But it's beeen decided that it actually isn't hurting the car since there has been many LS1s and truck motors with well over 200k miles that have had the piston slap since day 1.

[daviss]

I'm kind of in the same boat. I sold my 98 SS when my first kid came along and I soon replaced it with my much cheaper TR. Now my wife wants the Camaro back. The biggest problem is I swore on my life that I will die with my Buick and there's not enough room in the two car garage for a TR, an SS and her car. I refuse to park the Camaro or the Buick in the driveway and she refuses to park her daily in the driveway. So I guess another Camaro is going to cost me about $250,000. ($10-$15k for the car, $240kfor a three car garage with a house attached)

Good Luck

[Pablo]

Thirdgen and a 4th gen are apples to oranges


I dont think theres a 4th worth looking at, the dash is like a mile long, you cant see a hood, you dont really have a feel for the enormity of the car, driving that thing feels like you are driving a car bigger than a TR.

Sure they perform because they have a good drivetrain, but handling wise, a thirdgen will outrun it if you compare two equally prepared chassis, thirds are lighter too

If i were you I would look for a 5 speed 87-92 LB9 car, preferebly a formula and just make it your handling car, you can pick up a real nice prospect for 2500 bux or less, still have a gen 1 sbc with super cheap parts, and if you want Ill sell you the .030 over 305 making 350 hp out of my old 89 firebird for 400 bux

[lieu910]

If you want an LS1 Fbody, just wait a little bit until the new Camaro comes out. They'll be giving 4th gen cars away at that point. The styling is going to look really dated at that point.

Honestly, I'd be leary of a 4th gen car unless you plan on keeping it a long time/forever. Financially, it's a losing proposition unlike your GN. The TTA is a great suggestion. To me a TTA still looks fresh because they really are not overstyled like 4th gen T/A's were. Just my opinion.

[Pablo]

Originally Posted by lieu910

To me a TTA still looks fresh because they really are not overstyled like 4th gen T/A's were. Just my opinion.

I agree 100%, 4thgen T/a's look like the designers were in the studio and one said "hey, lets add a bulge here!" and then another said "Lets add a scoop here!" and still another said, "Lets make the spoiler THIS much taller" and so on until you got what you see on the roads, looks like a bunch of decorative afterthoughts on a shape that wasnt pretty to begin with

[87 Pete]

Originally Posted by Pablo

I agree 100%, 4thgen T/a's look like the designers were in the studio and one said "hey, lets add a bulge here!" and then another said "Lets add a scoop here!" and still another said, "Lets make the spoiler THIS much taller" and so on until you got what you see on the roads, looks like a bunch of decorative afterthoughts on a shape that wasnt pretty to begin with

The styling looks dated because it is dated, it goes back to the late 80's... almost as old as our GN's

This 1988 GTO concept looks a lot like a 4th gen TA with no wing.
http://ls1fbody.netfirms.com/picture...oncept_GTO.jpg

IMHO, a black WS6 still looks badass, and cooler than a 3rd gen TA

Pete

[Pablo]

Originally Posted by 87 Pete

IMHO, a black WS6 still looks badass, and cooler than a 3rd gen TA

Pete

Nonsense!


and man those 80s car designers were a peice of work, they wanted everything to look like it came out of the movie total recall

[denn454]

having owned both (even if for not very long) i would really have to say stick with the gn. the ls1's are better cars all around but next time your out count how many camaros and t/a's you see, then count how many gn's you see. i'm going to take a stab at this, i'd say for every gn i see, i probably see 300 fbodys. thats my real selling point, the gn is much much more uncommon, its cool having a car that not everyone knows about also.

everyone says the ls1's have great potental and take very little to make them fast, that might be true but compared to a gn, its not even close (i'm sure that doesn't apply in your case, but if someone else reads this it might help them)

and there is a TON of handeling upgrades out there for the g body, open up a summit or jeggs and there is as much handeling stuff for a g-body as anything else (unfortunatly thats about all they have in their catalog for a gn) a set of blisteins, cross braces, and some of the polywhatever end links on the swaybars will help handeling tremendiously. they have plenty of potental, most everyone just goes the drag car route and you don't hear about handeling very often.

i'd love to get an ls1 t/a but thats only because i want something i can put a ton of miles on and not really have to worry about too much, for a toy a gn is definatly the way to go.

[Grumpy]

I'd take the newer Ram Air Trans Am !!! my daughter's latest halucination

[GNJesse]

well, what i really wanna do is build a 9 second car. Im not sure if i wanna do it to a gn tho. seems like gn's are too much up keep when you get them goin that fast. Im really interested in doing a 9 second all motor six speed trans am. i know it will be costly and take a while but i love the look of a WS6 with slicks and skinnies and i think it would be awesome if i could go that fast with a six speed. There has been plenty of people that have done it with a manual. Im just kind of sick of the auto trans. I like to shift and have fun on the streets and stuff. The biggest reason i want the trans am is becasue i can get it with a manual trans, its just more fun then the automatic GN.

[turbosam6]

Having owned both, and modded both, I feel I have a valid opinion here:

1st, if your goal is a 9 second pump gas streetable car, an f body is going to be easier and cheaper to build, and more reliable. Either way 9 second car is expensive though.

One thing I used to agree with: F bodies are like *******s, everyones got one, but GN's are rare. True, and I could never cut my pristine Gn to make a 9 second car. I will cut the damn fenders off my f body with scissors for a tenth or 2. But I don't know about where you live, but I'm not seein' a ton of F bodies on the road, especially modded ones. My 2002 Z is more of an eye catcher and attention getter than my Gn ever was, and I really feel (even today) it was a much nicer car. But no one knows what a GN is anymore, and although I loved being different, I was also paranoid of driving it for the fear of theft or damage. My Z28 has some big n' littles and a cowl hood, and trust me, more people are scared of it than my GN and more people notice it. What kills me is you hear buick guys talking about being unique then you go to a buick event and have to read plates to see which car is yours. Being unique is easy with any car, just personalize it.

My Z is waaay more reliable than my GN, sadly. But I have bought good parts for it too, 12 bolt rear, tranny, etc. I'll go mid 10's in my Z this year on pump gas and drag radials, full weight with a loaded car, carrying the wheels a little. I spent over 40K on my GN and never hit a 10. Never close. I have about $24K in my Z TOTAL. Thats car, 2 sets of rims and tires, tranny, rear, driveshaft, roll bar, everything. And I'm on the higher end of the budget it could be done for. Also I'm at 3700 lbs. race weight. Guys are gutting their cars and going much faster, but its not worth it for me. I could go 9's with serious weight reduction, but then its a race car and I don't want a race car.

The GN is an awesome car and an important part of automotive history. To build one takes alot of money and sometimes parts aren't readily available. Also finding shops to work on them is hard too. If I own another it will stay stock-ish. I enjoyed my GN so much when it was a low 13 second stocker. Then I got greedy and spent too much money to go slow. If ET's are your goal, look away from TR's. Their are much easier ways to go fast for less. If you want a rare fast car that will get you a little more respect from fellow racers, a buick will do it, but you'll spend alot more time and money than most.

I still don't miss my Gn and my LS1 continues to impress me all the time. Plus, I don't watch my oil pressure gauge like 90% of the time I drive, I don't worry when I park it outside, and I love the growing competitive aftermarket. Parts are cheaper, motors are cheaper, and the blocks will take some abuse!