2007 Rules

[HighPSI]

Things have been kind of quiet here lately. Is everyone happy with the current rules?

[lrayzer]

I would like a clarification on the exhaust exit/dump location, in front of axel, over axel, "must exit from body" location etc, I have seen several different routes taken. I am starting fresh so that prompts the question.

[HighPSI]

The current rules state:

A 4”maximum size single or dual exhaust system is allowed. It must muffle and exit at/behind the rear axle tube(s), away from the car, equal to the lower body line

I interpret this to mean the exhaust must at least reach the rear axle and NOT point up towards the body.

[lrayzer]

That does help, as stated it would lead me to think it must exit the side, or go over, so a axle turnbdown is acceptable, Ala Mustang practice.

Will you be at Reynolds cal ?

[HighPSI]

Yes. I will be at Reynolds. Feel free to come by and you can discuss the rules with most of the current TSO guys

[Ted A.]

Originally Posted by lrayzer

I would like a clarification on the exhaust exit/dump location, in front of axel, over axel, "must exit from body" location etc, I have seen several different routes taken. I am starting fresh so that prompts the question.

The TSL rule state that the exhaust must exit WITHIN 2" of the axle tube. I'm sure the rules for TSO will allow this measurement.

Exit from body means by the use of a turndown.

[Ted A.]

Cal, I would like to propose a #3150 weight for a 109 block, limited to a 76MM turbo.

I want to see the 8 second barrier broke and lets give a place for it to happen.

[BLACKHAWK]

Originally Posted by Ted A.

Cal, I would like to propose a #3150 weight for a 109 block, limited to a 76MM turbo.

I want to see the 8 second barrier broke and lets give a place for it to happen.

got a question for u ted,have you cleared ur box yet

[HighPSI]

Originally Posted by Ted A.

Cal, I would like to propose a #3150 weight for a 109 block, limited to a 76MM turbo.

I want to see the 8 second barrier broke and lets give a place for it to happen.

Sounds good to me Ted. Only, why not just word it that a 109 block gets a 150 weight break. That way, you can run whatever turbo you want.

[JCotton]

Originally Posted by HighPSI

Sounds good to me Ted. Only, why not just word it that a 109 block gets a 150 weight break. That way, you can run whatever turbo you want.

I'm pretty happy with the current TSO rules, I think they should be pretty much left alone for at least another year, so as to not create anymore expense to rethink current combos. Unless someone can come up with a reason to give a weight break to a 109, I see no reason for that. If you can take all the same components out of a ST2 and put it into a stock block, don't we have the same performance capabilities..... hence, if someone wants to run a stock block, same rules should apply.

[turbobuick]

I definitely want to eliminate all the extra BS in the rules and don't want to go though another tech bitching session about inner fenders, horns, seats and other non-essential BS. This is what I proposed originally, at least for BPG:

1, Current turbo/weight rule 3300 82mm and smaller 3400 83mm to 88mm 100# penalty for T5 flange
2. Current tire and rear suspension rules
3. No liquid IC's
4. Current exhaust system rules
5. Regal body required stock firewall location with stock frame. Modifications for tire size and x-member clearance allowed.
6. No NOS or additional injection/spray of any sort in or on the motor, turbo, IC, drive train etc.
7. Gasoline only
8.Car must have all applicable safety equipment for speeds and times


A bunch of people have piped up about TSM/TSE combos being allowed and here are my suggestions:

INTENT: This a heads up class for 81-87 Buick regal bodied single turbo Buick V6 cars running stock style rear suspension and a 10.5" tire. The class is to be run on a .400 pro-tree and on a pro-ladder. No minimum qualifying times with a quick 8 format. Car must have all applicable safety equipment for speeds obtained and must be able to pass host track safety tech.

Class minimum weight is 3100#

1. BODY: 1981-1987 Regal body required with stock firewall location and stock frame. Frame modifications for roll cages, safety, tire size and cross member clearance are allowed. Functioning headlights and taillights required.

***Are we going to allow cutting the frame after the front suspension and allow pin on front ends? Do we want to put in wording for it or just leave it as is and see if someone shows up like this?

2. EXHAUST: Must be functional and extend to the rear axle and away from the body.

3. FRONT SUSPENSION: Must have stock mounting locations. Any aftermarket bolt on part is allowed. Rack and pinion conversions are allowed

4. REAR SUSPENSION: must maintain factory mounting locations on the frame. Coil over conversion allowed, sway bar and panhard bar modifications are allowed. Must maintain factory 4-link arrangement. Any automotive type solid axle housing allowed.

5. TIRES: Slicks w/ sidewall designation up to a 29.5” x 11.50” -15” size tire w/ a maximum measured footprint of 11.25” is allowed, W tires are allowed. ** Phoenix Brand 11.5”standard and W sidewall designation tires are not allowed do to tread width restrictions. DOT street tires w/sidewall designations up to a 30.0” x 13.50”-15” size tire are allowed

6. TURBO: Only one allowed. Any commercially available turbine or compressor housing is allowed. No external modifications or welding is allowed. No hybrid or custom housings are allowed. Commercially made housing must be available by November 1 of the prior year. Maximum turbo size is 88mm to be checked with a plug**See below.

7. FUEL: Gasoline fuel only, no additives, alcohol, or nitrous oxide injection allowed. No additional injection/spray of any sort in or on the motor, turbo, IC, drive train etc.

8. WEIGHTS:
3200# for any turbo up to an 82mm
3300# for a 83mm to an 88mm turbo

ADDITIONS:
-50# for any stage or aftermarket block that utilizes a 14 head bolt configuration
-50# for any motor over 250 CID
-100# for a T5 flanged turbine housing
-100# for a liquid IC to be assessed with car at full weight and IC reservoir full ** I don't care one way or another if liquid ICs are allowed. This is a pretty stiff penalty because it is going to be over whatever the car already weighs.

DEDUCTIONS: (Car can not weigh less than 3100#)
-100# for iron production heads no stage 2.
-100# for turbo smaller than 71mm

This should keep all the current participants at the same weight and allow new combos to be competitive. Your typical TSM car with a 76 mm turbo would have to weigh 3200# and should be very competitive at that weight. There are no weight breaks for a 109 block but weight penalties for additional head bolts and CID which do affect performance. If you take Dave Bamford's car and shave it down to 3100 with a 70mm turbo mathematically it could run 8.84@153 with the same TSM combo so that should make things interesting. These are pretty simple rules with the bare necessities so if I missed something please speak up. I know I re-worded a lot of stuff but these are essentially still the same rules from this year just with added weight breaks for different combos. So far we have BPG and Norwalk and Bill mentioned Cecil. The Q8 format should make things quick and easy for the race promoters and to date we haven't had more than 8 cars show for an event on race day. It would be nice to have a points series with sponsors and payouts.

So lets hear the opinions and suggestions!

PS: Cal I put a few calls into you give me a buzz.

[odell4o8]

Originally Posted by JCotton

I'm pretty happy with the current TSO rules, I think they should be pretty much left alone for at least another year, so as to not create anymore expense to rethink current combos. Unless someone can come up with a reason to give a weight break to a 109, I see no reason for that. If you can take all the same components out of a ST2 and put it into a stock block, don't we have the same performance capabilities..... hence, if someone wants to run a stock block, same rules should apply.

I agree with jack, oc,

[Ted A.]

Originally Posted by JCotton

Unless someone can come up with a reason to give a weight break to a 109, I see no reason for that. If you can take all the same components out of a ST2 and put it into a stock block, don't we have the same performance capabilities..... hence, if someone wants to run a stock block, same rules should apply.

Reason(s)

1. 8 bolts per cylinder,
2. Cubic inch limitations less than 4.1 blocks.
3. Nobody has EVER made the kind of power with the 109 even close to take the TSO field at the #3150 weight.
4. Maybe others who already have 109 engines, and can come play with the TSO cars. Some don't have big budgets, so lets give them some weight to take advantage of.
5. It won't hurt to try.

[Ted A.]

Originally Posted by BLACKHAWK

got a question for u ted,have you cleared ur box yet

Yes, sorry.

[Ted A.]

Originally Posted by HighPSI

Sounds good to me Ted. Only, why not just word it that a 109 block gets a 150 weight break. That way, you can run whatever turbo you want.

Fine by me. I have a special 76 turbo that I have kept put up on a shelf for a special occasion like this!!!

[baadgn]

Originally Posted by turbobuick

I definitely want to eliminate all the extra BS in the rules and don't want to go though another tech bitching session about inner fenders, horns, seats and other non-essential BS. This is what I proposed originally, at least for BPG:

1, Current turbo/weight rule 3300 82mm and smaller 3400 83mm to 88mm 100# penalty for T5 flange
2. Current tire and rear suspension rules
3. No liquid IC's
4. Current exhaust system rules
5. Regal body required stock firewall location with stock frame. Modifications for tire size and x-member clearance allowed.
6. No NOS or additional injection/spray of any sort in or on the motor, turbo, IC, drive train etc.
7. Gasoline only
8.Car must have all applicable safety equipment for speeds and times


A bunch of people have piped up about TSM/TSE combos being allowed and here are my suggestions:

INTENT: This a heads up class for 81-87 Buick regal bodied single turbo Buick V6 cars running stock style rear suspension and a 10.5" tire. The class is to be run on a .400 pro-tree and on a pro-ladder. No minimum qualifying times with a quick 8 format. Car must have all applicable safety equipment for speeds obtained and must be able to pass host track safety tech.

Class minimum weight is 3100#

1. BODY: 1981-1987 Regal body required with stock firewall location and stock frame. Frame modifications for roll cages, safety, tire size and cross member clearance are allowed. Functioning headlights and taillights required.

***Are we going to allow cutting the frame after the front suspension and allow pin on front ends? Do we want to put in wording for it or just leave it as is and see if someone shows up like this?

2. EXHAUST: Must be functional and extend to the rear axle and away from the body.

3. FRONT SUSPENSION: Must have stock mounting locations. Any aftermarket bolt on part is allowed. Rack and pinion conversions are allowed

4. REAR SUSPENSION: must maintain factory mounting locations on the frame. Coil over conversion allowed, sway bar and panhard bar modifications are allowed. Must maintain factory 4-link arrangement. Any automotive type solid axle housing allowed.

5. TIRES: Slicks w/ sidewall designation up to a 29.5” x 11.50” -15” size tire w/ a maximum measured footprint of 11.25” is allowed, W tires are allowed. ** Phoenix Brand 11.5”standard and W sidewall designation tires are not allowed do to tread width restrictions. DOT street tires w/sidewall designations up to a 30.0” x 13.50”-15” size tire are allowed

6. TURBO: Only one allowed. Any commercially available turbine or compressor housing is allowed. No external modifications or welding is allowed. No hybrid or custom housings are allowed. Commercially made housing must be available by November 1 of the prior year. Maximum turbo size is 88mm to be checked with a plug**See below.

7. FUEL: Gasoline fuel only, no additives, alcohol, or nitrous oxide injection allowed. No additional injection/spray of any sort in or on the motor, turbo, IC, drive train etc.

8. WEIGHTS:
3200# for any turbo up to an 82mm
3300# for a 83mm to an 88mm turbo

ADDITIONS:
-50# for any stage or aftermarket block that utilizes a 14 head bolt configuration
-50# for any motor over 250 CID
-100# for a T5 flanged turbine housing
-100# for a liquid IC to be assessed with car at full weight and IC reservoir full ** I don't care one way or another if liquid ICs are allowed. This is a pretty stiff penalty because it is going to be over whatever the car already weighs.

DEDUCTIONS: (Car can not weigh less than 3100#)
-100# for iron production heads no stage 2.
-100# for turbo smaller than 71mm

This should keep all the current participants at the same weight and allow new combos to be competitive. Your typical TSM car with a 76 mm turbo would have to weigh 3200# and should be very competitive at that weight. There are no weight breaks for a 109 block but weight penalties for additional head bolts and CID which do affect performance. If you take Dave Bamford's car and shave it down to 3100 with a 70mm turbo mathematically it could run 8.84@153 with the same TSM combo so that should make things interesting. These are pretty simple rules with the bare necessities so if I missed something please speak up. I know I re-worded a lot of stuff but these are essentially still the same rules from this year just with added weight breaks for different combos. So far we have BPG and Norwalk and Bill mentioned Cecil. The Q8 format should make things quick and easy for the race promoters and to date we haven't had more than 8 cars show for an event on race day. It would be nice to have a points series with sponsors and payouts.

So lets hear the opinions and suggestions!

PS: Cal I put a few calls into you give me a buzz.

Chris,

Looks good You covered a lot of combos!!!!!

[HighPSI]

I too am happy with the current rules, but am open minded to other ideas/thoughts. I think the controversy starts when exceptions are made to the rules. It's simple, if someone plans on racing a class they need to read the rules and comply to them. When you eliminate the 9.99 qualifying time, it also means that a car may not have to have a certain safety items i.e. cage, license, etc.. This opens up a whole new can of worms, what hapens if that car runs faster during eliminations

Chris: Sorry, I'll call you today.

[V6gofast]

Cal,
I forgot to mention this yesterday, I would like to see the exhaust rule
dropped completely. Just have it exit at the passenger seat line . That
way there are no gray areas .