TH400 build-pictures

[87buickracer]

Here is a few pictures of my 400 build.It has the alto clutches/kolene steels,intermediate power pack,36 element sprag/drum,boost regulator/spring with shift kit.I will be running a vaccum bypass on the modulator for turbo/supercharged engines.and a b+m mega shifter.may change to reverse valvebody in the future,but for now going with street/strip shift kit for street use.

note-The vaccum bypass eliminates the need for a mechanical modulator and at 29.95 is a good deal.this piece is made by transgo.just check with your local dealer if you want to purchase one for your automatic 400.

[87buickracer]

more pictures

[jimski]

looks awesome, great pics thanks for sharing um

[DonWG]

Would you like some technical tips on your assembly?

[KWIKR 1]

Originally Posted by DonWG

Would you like some technical tips on your assembly?

YES !!!!!

[gnxtc2]

Subscribed

Donny post away or should make a thread on how to properly build the 400

Billy T.
gnxtc2@aol.com

[DonWG]

I just checked your sig. Sorry man. Don't want to put my nose in where it's not wanted.

[87buickracer]

Originally Posted by DonWG

Would you like some technical tips on your assembly?

Sure,no problem..We can all learn different tips on how to get better
performance out of our cars..I'm always open for suggestions and new ideas..
please do share,thanks..

[DonWG]

Sorry. I don't know what's wrong with me. I just can't resist trying to help if I can.

Let me start by asking about the reverse band lugs in the case. It's hard to tell on the front one in the picture. Both should be level with the part of the case closest to the top of the lugs. Sometimes they can have a tendancy to work their way into the case. I know it's probably close to level, but if I can run my finger across the case and feel that a lug is protruding, I'll hammer it back flush. I've seen them so far into the case that it caused the rear band to drag on the carrier.

[Otto J]

I always use a 2004r od snap ring to retain the intermediate clutch.

[87buickracer]

Originally Posted by Otto J

I always use a 2004r od snap ring to retain the intermediate clutch.

The alto intermediate power pack comes with a new heavy duty snap ring,but I will keep that in mind for builds without the power pack..

[87buickracer]

Originally Posted by DonWG

Sorry. I don't know what's wrong with me. I just can't resist trying to help if I can.

Let me start by asking about the reverse band lugs in the case. It's hard to tell on the front one in the picture. Both should be level with the part of the case closest to the top of the lugs. Sometimes they can have a tendancy to work their way into the case. I know it's probably close to level, but if I can run my finger across the case and feel that a lug is protruding, I'll hammer it back flush. I've seen them so far into the case that it caused the rear band to drag on the carrier.

good point,They seem to be pretty level,but I will double check to be sure..

[DonWG]

I noticed you have a HD snap ring for the Int. pack, but I don't like where the gap is. I stick to the OEM suggestion to put the snap ring gap 180 degrees from where you have it, or across from the Int. band case anchor. Keeping a solid section of snap ring across that wide gap of no retaining lugs will take some load off of the case snap ring retaining lugs at each end of the open gap. Those are the lugs that like to start breaking away first in high line, HD applications. Do all you can to help them out.

[DonWG]

What HP level are you building this for? What WOT in drive line pressure are you planning on using?

[DorianL]

Wow, I can see why 400 have the reputation they do...

[blackplague]

Get a TH 350 pump bearing and pump bearing shims in .010,.015.020.

Knock the case bushing up slightly so the pump bearing and pump shim have something to pilot off of.

Remove and discard the 3 tab case washer and the 4 tab TW on the output shaft.

Usually the .015 shim sets the endplay right where it needs to be.

The pump shim and bearing go down where the 3 tab washer use to be.

Now you have rollerized the output shaft.



(This is just my opinion, Flame suit is on)

I would suggest leaving the intermediate snap ring where it is in the pix. The reason why:: If you put the openings of the snap ring opposite of the intermediate band anchor lug, you effectly turn the snap ring into 2 half moon shapes that don't have the lug engagement compared to the way you have it. (tomato/tamato)

This is for OTTO: The snap ring in the pix is a Torqueflight 8 rear clutch snap ring in either .088 or .106 variation. They are easier to source.

Whatever you do ,and this will sound totally stuipd and counter productive; Run a wave steel in the intermediate clutch pack. It will be easier on the snap ring, pressure plate,and case lugs and will have no ill effect on the durability of the clutch pack.

Mike.

[Otto J]

Originally Posted by blackplague

This is for OTTO: The snap ring in the pix is a Torqueflight 8 rear clutch snap ring in either .088 or .106 variation. They are easier to source.

Mike.

Thanks for that info.

[jlbuick]

Originally Posted by gnxtc2

Subscribed

Donny post away or should make a thread on how to properly build the 400

Billy T.
gnxtc2@aol.com

that would be a great idea..step by step, include how to make your own tools so you dont have to buy such expensive special ones, list of kit or part numbers, with pics along the way. also the tips needed for the turbo cars and anything needed to install, i think just a new mount and dif. driveshaft..my 2004r done blown up and rather just go with the 400 if I can build..

[chris718]

put an axode final drive sun gear bearng on your forward clutch hub.now your rollerized and have less front end play

[comp]

Originally Posted by jimski

looks awesome, great pics thanks for sharing um

i agree

[DonWG]

Originally Posted by blackplague

Get a TH 350 pump bearing and pump bearing shims in .010,.015.020.

Knock the case bushing up slightly so the pump bearing and pump shim have something to pilot off of.

Remove and discard the 3 tab case washer and the 4 tab TW on the output shaft.

Usually the .015 shim sets the endplay right where it needs to be.

The pump shim and bearing go down where the 3 tab washer use to be.

Now you have rollerized the output shaft.

Yep. Very good tip. That back thrust washer can take a beating if lube supply becomes marginal. That's another story. Mike explained the retrofit very well. Keep the rear unit end play to a book minimum. I also see that the lube orifice in the mainshaft is still in there. Knock it out.

Originally Posted by blackplague

(This is just my opinion, Flame suit is on)

I would suggest leaving the intermediate snap ring where it is in the pix. The reason why:: If you put the openings of the snap ring opposite of the intermediate band anchor lug, you effectly turn the snap ring into 2 half moon shapes that don't have the lug engagement compared to the way you have it. (tomato/tamato)

No flame suit needed here. Every builder has different ideas on how to do things. Some very explainable, some not. This is one of the procedures that is not explainable because the engineers that decided on how to seat the snap ring never published why they wanted it that way. I totally agree with your explanation of why the snap ring should be open in the wide open area. When you install the snap ring the OEM way, you do lose engagement with one case lug. I fight with this one as well. But, there must have been a very good reason for the factory manual to specifically outline this procedure, as kooky as it seems. If I had to guess, I would say that you want the gap portion of the snap ring surrounded by case lugs, because it's less likely the snap ring will collapse inward when pressure is applied to it. Try putting the snap ring in the case the way OEM suggests. Then try to take it back out. PAIN in the ARSE, isn't it. Now put the snap ring in the case with the open end at the band anchor side. Now see how easily you can pry the end of the snap ring inward to remove it. The reason why a thicker snap ring is suggested in this spot in the first place is to keep the snap ring seated in its groove when its loaded with high line pressure. When the stock snap ring pinches inward when the int. pack is applied, it puts more load at just the tips of the case lugs. That is what fatigues them and eventually causes them to snap off. Sure the high line pressures also fatigue them. But, loading them at the tip only fatigues them faster. Also. notice how the first few case lugs to start breaking are always closest to the large open gap? Try removing the snap ring by prying near one of the lugs bordering the open area gap in the case with the snap ring installed the OEM manner. Then try prying the snap ring inward at the same spot with the open end of the snap ring installed incorrectly. See how much easier the snap ring moves inward. When the snap ring is loaded under normal operation, you can see the snap ring will collapse inward near the open gap area in the case much easier when installed incorrectly. That means shorter life for those bordering snap ring case lugs. I hope I explained this well enough.

Originally Posted by blackplague

Whatever you do ,and this will sound totally stuipd and counter productive; Run a wave steel in the intermediate clutch pack. It will be easier on the snap ring, pressure plate,and case lugs and will have no ill effect on the durability of the clutch pack.

Good tip for a lower HP build. If your doing 1,000HP+ you better do all you can to help the int. and direct live. Sure that shocks things more, but at that level, racing is sacrificing the weak. Running a wavy in that pack at high HP levels will always seem to overheat the wavy steel at the points that first contact the friction. That's localizng heat buildup too much for my taste. It most assuredly ends up in an overheated friction element.

If the int. shift is too firm, I prefer to start installing more int. piston return springs. A4LD direct return springs work good there.

[DonWG]

Originally Posted by chris718

put an axode final drive sun gear bearng on your forward clutch hub.now your rollerized and have less front end play

That's a neat tip. Understand that the front unit of the 400 sees very little longitudinal loading so the benefit of the needle bearing there will be very small.

If you study the 400 to identify the locations of high longitudinal loading, you will notice that the factory has already installed needle thrust bearings at those locations.

[DonWG]

I notice from the pics that the case did not have a case saver previously. You should modify the center support so you can use a case saver snap ring.

Cases that were run without a case saver snap ring can sometimes wear in an uneven fashion. More bounding into the case at one side than the other. This will allow the center support to sit in the case tilted off center line. Everything should run true centerline. Another thing to help that is to replace all bushings. Watch out for some aftermarket center support bushings that have too much shaft clearance.

[DonWG]

Do you have a picture of the complete piston cavity of the direct drum?

Metal sealing rings. How much line pressure are you planning to use?

HP level and torque converter stall? Need to know this to get a picture of intermediate sprag loading.

[chris718]

Don i thought I was the only person that paid attention to the band lugs Also we machine the face of the center support so that the direct drum rides on a bearing installed in the support face. This reduces seal ring and sealing problems when the center support or drive tube bushings wear out.End play tip.install the rear thrust bearing,output shaft with snap ring ,front and rear carriers and center support with rear washer into the case.leave out the 3 3 piece needle bearing assemblies,sun gear ,drive tube ,and rear ring gear and intermediate shaft.Adjust clearance to .008 by shimming rear case bearing or using a larger selective 4 tab plastic washer between the two carriers.They come in .060, .065, .070, .080 ,and .085.Once set remove and reinstall these items with omitted parts and pull up on the intermediate shaft .adjust clearance with pinion shims under the sun gear bearing till you have .008.IMill a slot into the front pump boby to exhaust the cavity between vent and pressure to drain to the case to reduce oil blowout from the vent tube under load or units with max line pressure all the time.add a th 350 style plastic vent to the rear governor cover on t brake applications as well.we sell an aluminum cover with the vent installed as well.518 converter bearing works well between the 2 carriers if you have a lathe to machine it.return spring assemblies from 4l80e shouls be used in all clutch packs for quick assembly as well as the likelyhood of them being stiffer than the worn out original.

[DonWG]

There is a better way to stabilize the direct drum. Pretty trick, really. I reserve that mod only for my personal transmission.

[Otto J]

Originally Posted by DonWG

There is a better way to stabilize the direct drum. Pretty trick, really. I reserve that mod only for my personal transmission.

why not share?

[DonWG]

Originally Posted by Otto J

why not share?

Com'on now. I've got to keep some things to myself.

[chris718]

Green locktite on the drive tube?steady rest on the support?

[DonWG]

Originally Posted by chris718

Green locktite on the drive tube?steady rest on the support?

Green locktite on the tube???

[chris718]

Green loctite is put on the splines of the drive tube and the tube is then put/pressed into the high drum and left in a press overnite.Now its 1 piece and is inserterted in to the trans together.the shaft now supports the drum and youd be surprised how stable the drum becomes.

[DonWG]

Originally Posted by chris718

Green loctite is put on the splines of the drive tube and the tube is then put/pressed into the high drum and left in a press overnite.Now its 1 piece and is inserterted in to the trans together.the shaft now supports the drum and youd be surprised how stable the drum becomes.

I find the splines to be too loose fitting to do that.

[chris718]

interesting.the way I support the drum it is actually is supported by the center support on the id and rear face.we also bore out the id of the support for a billet piston finished to the same od as the direct drum to raise clamping force at the clutch while keeping line down.Id like to know how you support it but if its a secret then so it is.

[blackplague]

Originally Posted by chris718

put an axode final drive sun gear bearng on your forward clutch hub.now your rollerized and have less front end play

But if you machine .070 off of the hub face before you put the bearing down, you can run the 700-R4 rear planet bearing on the pump.

Man , i've gotten some more good 400 tips from this thread. Thanks Chris and Don.

Mike.

[turbo bitt]

Originally Posted by DonWG

Com'on now. I've got to keep some things to myself.

I like the ATI center support with the bearing modifcation