Stage1/stage2

[NJTurbo]

Is a Stage 1 better than a Stage 2?

[Ted A.]

Answering your question, No.

I'd not pass one up if the price was right.

[NJTurbo]

I found a guy and ran the casting number and it is telling me it is a Stage 1 block 4.1. He has steel cran brand new, intake, roller cam, Stage 2 heads, oil pan, oiling system. He want's $5000.00. Everything is new but block, block is machined and ready to go. The problem is i really do not now much about a stage 1?

[86gn]

I thought Stage 1 is a 3.8

[KendallF]

Originally posted by 86gn
I thought Stage 1 is a 3.8

No. As somebody else posted in another thread today, S1 and (offcenter) S2 blocks share a common casting number (casting #25500012 for 3.8 and 25500016 for 4.1). The difference is in the machining. S1 blocks have conventional oiling and 2 bolt cast caps. S2 off centers have a relocated oil pickup and 2 steel center 4 bolt caps. Later, The S2 was revised and the S1 eliminated to produce the "on-center" castings. These again came in 3.8 and 4.1 varieties; the most common casting # for the 4.1s ends in 153.

[NJTurbo]

The ending number on this block is 16. Looking that part number up, tells me this is a stage 1 block 4.1 Is this a good motor.

[KendallF]

Originally posted by njturbo
The ending number on this block is 16. Looking that part number up, tells me this is a stage 1 block 4.1 Is this a good motor.

Did you read my last post?? Apparently not. The casting number for both S1 and S2 4.1 offcenter blocks will end in 16. The part number GM used will not appear anywhere on the blocks; it was 25500015 for a 4.1 S1 and 25500017 for a 4.1 S2 off-center. Look at the caps, look at whether it's been drilled for 14 bolt heads..that will determine whether it's a S1 or a S2.

If it is a S1 then the caps will limit it to perhaps 600 HP safely (? open to debate, but weaker than the 4 bolt caps). Go buy the thing or not already!

[NJTurbo]

Geezzzz Just asking. Here is the number off block 25500016 now if i go to turboregal.org that Ken M sent me, this part number shows it being a stage 1 block off-center.

[NJTurbo]

Go to.


http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/pic...blockguide.html



This number 25500016 is a stage 1 block-off center.

http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/pict...lockguide.html

I still don't fully understand after reading all this, except that the stage motors are much stronger, and better balanced (?), and therefore can take a broader RPM range (?) and are more tunable...it that even close?

[Ted A.]

Buy a Buick Powersource book. This will tell you in great detail about the Off-center stage parts and a lot of thier applications.

I have only seen a 25500016 in both the stage I and stage II forms, I'm not saying there isn't a 25500017. Looking at the GN-Ttype board there is a stage II 25500017 block that is a stage II. I don't honestley know what the casting differences(if any), but the 25500017(in the picture) recieved ALL steel caps even in 1 and 4 position and note that the oil pickup was not originally machined ,but added. I have a 25500016 off-center stage II and it HAD 1 and 4 cast caps with wet sump provisions. I had a stage I 4.00" block and am still kicking myself in the a$$ for selling it every day.

If my memory serves me correct oiling revisions were made throughout the evolution of the stage blocks.

[NJTurbo]

Hell with it, i bought it anyway. It has the casting number of 25500016 has the power 6 logo on both sides and 4 bolt mains. I could not pass it up, i found 1 guy in Ohio with 2 virgin off-center blocks however one has a bur in the cylinder and the other one he wanted $3500.00 for a bare block. I bought this one with stage 2 heads, intake, crank, pistons, rings, Pletuim, roller cam, roller rockers and valve covers. $5300.00 a little pricy however if you bought all these new parts seperate it would cost around 8$8,000 therfore i am happy. Good winter project. Thanks for the help.

[Ted A.]

Originally posted by njturbo
Hell with it, i bought it anyway. It has the casting number of 25500016 has the power 6 logo on both sides and 4 bolt mains. I could not pass it up, i found 1 guy in Ohio with 2 virgin off-center blocks however one has a bur in the cylinder and the other one he wanted $3500.00 for a bare block. I bought this one with stage 2 heads, intake, crank, pistons, rings, Pletuim, roller cam, roller rockers and valve covers. $5300.00 a little pricy however if you bought all these new parts seperate it would cost around 8$8,000 therfore i am happy. Good winter project. Thanks for the help.

$3500 for a block? That guy needs to put the crack pipe down.

You did O.K. on your purchase. You can bust your butt trying to get the prices down, but it really comes down to what is for sale at the specific time you are in the market to buy. The biggest thing is that you got quality parts and they are as advertised. Welcome to the pull your hair out and 1 month turns into a year club.

[NJTurbo]

That was the best i could do. Been shopping for awhile, i priced the block if i got it for 2k and added all these parts on-top of it, i would have still spent 5k just for pistons,rods,pins,crank,heads,intake. So i guess it was not bad. Now like you said, the fun begins, who to build it Where to get misc bolts nuts and brackets. Oh well no rush, my 87gn runs fine. Stage 2 engine gets done when it gets done. But i got one

WoW $3500 for a virgin STGII block!
I guess I got a steal @ $2100 shipped for my virgin stgII block!man he must be keeping up with the TA block project.

[RealFastV6]

Hopefully this will clear this up for everyone. (And to echo the same thing Kendall Said)

0017 is the GM Part number for a 0016 casting machined to a Stage 2 Block (Divorced Lifter Gallerys, 4 bolt mains, 14 bolt heads), you'll never find the number 0017 cast into anything.

0015 is the GM Part number for a 0016 casting machined to a Stage 1 Block (Oiled lifters, wet sump, 2 bolt cast main caps, 8 bolt heads), and again, you'll never find 0015 cast into anything.

The GNTTYPE site is misleading.

[NJTurbo]

Thanks for the information. I got the deal then. Mine is 25500016 it has the power 6 on the block, has 4 bolt main and 14 bolt head provisions. Now the fun starts with the bucks