stage vs gn1r vs ta

[rag231]

This has been an ongoing battle over the years with the stage vs gn1r but I have recently given thought to the ta heads. I missed the nats and I wonder how well all heads fared in competition in their respected combos. Also we havent had a combo thread posted in a while.

[ttypewhite]

If you want to find answers to your questions call Dan at DLS. His info is in my sig. Everybody has a opinion on this so your answers can vary. But Dan has worked with all these heads, so there will be no guessing from him.

[1BADTT]

No expert here but, by what I've read...can't beat the S2 aluminum heads. Dan would know for sure.

[Ted A.]

Happy with the TA's from Dan at DLS.

[laz]

Theres a few things to consider i would say if your running twin turbo the stage 2 heads are the way to go . The pain to service the car and lack of headers out there make the gn1s and the ta's the best choices imho.

[slamming 6]

If all out horsepower is the goal the Stage II head will make anywhere from 125 to 150 More Horsepower then the GN1's or TA's.That is with the supporting parts to take advantage of the larger port and valve size.

[NCTURBOS]

Originally Posted by Ted A.

Happy with the TA's from Dan at DLS.

Champion vs T/A is a question we're going to have to answer here soon as well. We're actually hoping you put a few more passes on your car before that time comes... It might make our choice easier...


K.

[Nasty Wendy]

Originally Posted by NCTURBOS

Champion vs T/A is a question we're going to have to answer here soon as well. We're actually hoping you put a few more passes on your car before that time comes... It might make our choice easier...


K.

Don't the TA heads need those special $900 rockers only available from TA?
That would put them very close to Stage 2 pricewise.

[gnxtc2]

Originally Posted by Nasty Wendy

Don't the TA heads need those special $900 rockers only available from TA?
That would put them very close to Stage 2 pricewise.

No it wouldn't, the Stage heads have a trickle down effect.

The Stage 2 heads will also require....
-Different cam
-Stage specific rockers
-Custom headers (unless you find a set of used ones)
-Custom Intake (unless you find a used one)
-Custom Fuel Rails (unless you get a complete Stage intake)
-Fabricate a throttle body/upper doghouse/throttle cable

My vote is for the TAs

Billy T.
gnxtc2@aol.com

[Nasty Wendy]

Originally Posted by gnxtc2

No it wouldn't, the Stage heads have a trickle down effect.

The Stage 2 heads will also require....
-Different cam
-Stage specific rockers
-Custom headers (unless you find a set of used ones)
-Custom Intake (unless you find a used one)
-Custom Fuel Rails (unless you get a complete Stage intake)
-Fabricate a throttle body/upper doghouse/throttle cable

My vote is for the TAs

Billy T.
gnxtc2@aol.com

I thought about those things too Billy. That trickle down effect is why I'm not going to use them as I already have everything I need to run stock arrangement heads. BUT if you are building an engine from scratch you are going to need a cam either way so no added expense there. You have to have headers either way and stage2s can be found for the same (or less if you are lucky) as a set of stainless TAs (obviously they don't grow on trees though). Geno sold some nice ATRs here in the recent past for a steal. The Champion on-center intake for stock arrangement heads is $750. A quick search turns up intakes like this 4 BBL 1 Piece Stg.II Used that can be worked for much less (probably be close in price when all said and done). Those special rockers for the Stage 2s can be found through Odell or Booher or Roller Rockers Used.

I've never gone as far as pricing out the throttle body or elbow to fit the carb intake so I don't know what that runs. Everything else can be done with dang near identical money IF you are starting with a blank sheet of paper. I guess we all do what works for us huh.

[Mac in SD]

Originally Posted by gnxtc2

No it wouldn't, the Stage heads have a trickle down effect.

The Stage 2 heads will also require....
-Different cam - A cam's a cam. S2 roller costs no more than any other
-Stage specific rockers - Easy enough to find.
-Custom headers (unless you find a set of used ones) - Yup. That's the biggie, since ATR went away.
-Custom Intake (unless you find a used one) - Convert a 4v. They're cheap.
-Custom Fuel Rails (unless you get a complete Stage intake) - Not that big of a deal.
-Fabricate a throttle body/upper doghouse/throttle cable - Hemco with an aluminum plate adapter. Stock throttle cable works fine. Or one of several elbows from Edlebrock, PTE, etc.

My vote is for the TAs

Billy T.
gnxtc2@aol.com

I don't know if I'd have gone with the S2 heads if the TAs were available 8 years ago when I built my engine. I very well may have. That said, I do love my S2's.

[Quint]

I prefer the stage heads, for maximum horsepower over anything else. If it where a car that wasnt being used for that, then TA.

[Nick Micale]

Originally Posted by NCTURBOS

Champion vs T/A is a question we're going to have to answer here soon as well. We're actually hoping you put a few more passes on your car before that time comes... It might make our choice easier... K.

This question HAS been answered a few times over the past couple years.

The superior strength of the TA heads has been solidly verified when Ted/Dan switched from the Champions and set a benchmark for HP with them. We have flowed 300 CFM with them, and Dan must have also when he did the ones for Ted.

We have just finished an alum engine for a low 8/high 7 sec. big tire GN we are building. These heads flowed 320 CFM which is close to stage II territory. As more builders work with the TA heads, flow numbers like these will become common.

As far a valve train, all after market heads require roller rockers for proper pushrod geometry. The TA SE heads require paired rockers [Jessel style], and why would an engine capable of 8-9000 RPM deserve less.

[ttypewhite]

StageII heads are viewed now a days as Race only, because the results from the TA/GN1 stuff is capable of running bottom 8's in TSO. I had a set of StageII heads on my Staged motor back in the 90's and what a pain in the ass they were. Changing spark plugs, rerouting your spark plug wires and using heat wrap tubes so they don't burn when they come in contact with the header, modified throttle cables etc. I rather a cleaner more easier approach using factory style heads over the Staged stuff anyday. For the all out racer, Staged heads just make better sense because they sell for peanuts compared to what the TA/GN1 cost fully ported with valves, springs, retainers, valve covers and rocker assembly.

[Cheeseburger]

I looked into the TA heads a while ago and was told it would run me $5000 for a ported set with rockers etc, it was a no brainer and i went to stage II heads.
Do not be confused as the TA heads that some are running are "race only" heads, definitly not a slap em on and go cylinder head i.m.o.

[laz]

I looked into the TA heads a while ago and was told it would run me $5000 for a ported set with rockers etc, it was a no brainer and i went to stage II heads

What your gonna findout is stage 2 is great race twin turbo heads but on a street type car a wedge type (production gn1 or Ta) head is alot easier to live with . Stage heads are cheap but all the parts around it are 20 years old and beat up its not the same to campare them to new casting and rockers . I have both and i can tell you that stage heads are a pain in the azz they burn plug wires and those atr headers need lots of work and maintenance .

[Ted A.]

Originally Posted by NCTURBOS

Champion vs T/A is a question we're going to have to answer here soon as well. We're actually hoping you put a few more passes on your car before that time comes... It might make our choice easier...


K.

More passes, 8.43 with a 5.43 1/8th at 132 and change. No cracks no issues.

[laz]

I heard you got some new bodywork Ted .

[Cheeseburger]

Originally Posted by laz

stage heads are a pain in the azz they burn plug wires and those atr headers need lots of work and maintenance .

That does not surprise me, but what is'nt a p.i.t.a. with these cars.....everything hurts the pocket book at this stage!
I just want to add that i stayed with the stage II heads do to affordablity, i already had em, so i'm using them!