stage I cracking ? where?

norbs · #1 (**permalink**) August 14th, 2007, 08:32 PM

Does anyone havea pic where stage I;s usually crack? Anyway to prevent it from happening. I'm thinking maybe a way to reenforce the area?

Epitome · #2 (**permalink**) August 14th, 2007, 08:48 PM

I am no expert, but I have never heard of an issue with stage 1 blocks cracking.

Otto J · #3 (**permalink**) August 14th, 2007, 08:51 PM

I dont know of a fix,But i know they have been known to crack from freeze plug to freeze plug

Jeff Rand · #4 (**permalink**) August 14th, 2007, 11:53 PM

Make sure you pin the freeze out plugs. When it cracks it will cause the plugs to release. I would add Hard Block and fill it up to the mid point between the plugs. That might help to stabilize the block. It is important to have the area being filled level. Do the hard block before the machine work.
Jeff

norbs · #5 (**permalink**) August 15th, 2007, 03:16 PM

A bit too late for that Jeff, its almost ready to go in the car. I guess if it cracks i may have to go to a alum block one day. Your running the SI heads or the SE heads on that combo of yours? 76gts, that must need some big converter?

Jeff Rand · #6 (**permalink**) August 16th, 2007, 06:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by norbs

A bit too late for that Jeff, its almost ready to go in the car. I guess if it cracks i may have to go to a alum block one day. Your running the SI heads or the SE heads on that combo of yours? 76gts, that must need some big converter?

Please consider pinning the freeze out plugs. I lost mine doing 130 and the water got under the rear tire.
Jeff

750H.P.V6 · #7 (**permalink**) August 16th, 2007, 07:23 PM

Norbs,

3.8 liter Stage I and II blocks like to crack between the freeze plugs. Typically this will happen on the passenger side first. I experienced the same thing as Jeff, I had one come out of my block while doing some test and tune on a remote stretch of road. Pinning the freeze plugs is advisable or you could epoxy them in too. BTW, Jeff's block cracked at a much lower H.P. level than he is at currently mine did too.

Neal

Reginald West · #8 (**permalink**) August 17th, 2007, 08:40 AM

Norbs

Pin those freeze plugs. My stage 2 block cracked between the freeze plugs and like Jeff and Neal the plugs came out at the top of the track.I filled the block with hard block and pinned the plugs. That was 2 years ago and the motor is still running strong and it does not over heat.

REG

Jeff Rand · #9 (**permalink**) August 17th, 2007, 08:53 AM

Norbs,
My block was a virgin stage 1 3.8 and it not only cracked between the freeze out plugs but also in the lifter area on the passenger side. The crack started at the mid point of #2 cylinder and continued back to the #6 cylinder. It was like number 2,4,and6 cylinders were trying to separate from the main portion of the block. (at the time I was only running 24# of boost) That experience was so costly and time consuming that it almost forced me out of Buick's.
Jeff

norbs · #10 (**permalink**) August 17th, 2007, 07:13 PM

You guys are really scaring me about racing this engine at all. I already put the heads on with cometics and copper tack between all the gasket layers so i really dont want to pull it apart. Should i knock out the plugs and pour some hard block in there now? Then epoxy the plugs back in?

750H.P.V6 · #11 (**permalink**) August 17th, 2007, 07:22 PM

Norbs,

I don't think myself, Jeff or Reggie intended to scare you just to inform you what could happen based on our experience. As far as adding hard block to the bottom end I'd pull the heads off and do it that way myself. Pinning or epoxy on the freeze plugs would be the best all round fix.

Neal

blue2T · #12 (**permalink**) August 18th, 2007, 07:30 AM

Reg,

Did you rebore & hone after filling the block?

Earl

Reginald West · #13 (**permalink**) August 19th, 2007, 03:18 PM

Yes I did hone the block. But during the last rebuild I bored it 20 over.

REG

norbs · #14 (**permalink**) August 20th, 2007, 07:12 PM

Does anyone have any pics of how the plugs are pinned in? I'm not even sure where to buy the pins and how deep to drill?

Reginald West · #15 (**permalink**) August 20th, 2007, 07:29 PM

Norbs

Send jeff rand an email he knows where you can buy the kit to pin them with. I don't have pictures but if your not in a big hurry I might be able to dig some up.

REG

Dwayne · #16 (**permalink**) August 21st, 2007, 06:15 AM

Alot of good info here in this thread. I know of a stage block that is cracked in the same place. My ? is , has anybody had any luck getting the crack welded up before pinning, epoxy, or hard blocking ?

Jeff Rand · #17 (**permalink**) August 21st, 2007, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reginald West

Norbs

Send jeff rand an email he knows where you can buy the kit to pin them with. I don't have pictures but if your not in a big hurry I might be able to dig some up.

REG

Norbs,
I bought 6-32 stainless steel screws and washers; then drilled (high speed drill) and tapped the area around the freeze out plug. I used three screws for each and I tapped about 1/4" to 3/8" inch into the block. You would have to use a starter tap followed be a squared off tap to get to the bottom of the hole. I also used red locktite. Some of the holes I went too deep and into the water jacket, so I added sealer to those threads. You might want to put a mark on the drill to reference the depth.
Jeff

Reginald West · #18 (**permalink**) August 21st, 2007, 10:33 AM

Big Daddy

During the last rebuild i did have the block welded as a added precaution.Now its welded, pinned and filled with hard block. After my 130 mph sideways skid I don't belive you can be to safe when its you butt in the drivers seat..

Norbs
Jeff is right on drilling the holes they don't need to be very deep just mark the drill so you don't go to deep.

Reg

norbs · #19 (**permalink**) August 21st, 2007, 05:39 PM

I will have to come up with some metal plates maybe bolted and epoxy'd on across the plugs, with some tiny allen bolts? What you think? Keep looking for some pics so i know what to look for and where to add some metal plates?

Dwayne · #20 (**permalink**) August 22nd, 2007, 12:22 PM

Hey Reginald, have you pulled your motor since you had it welded ? The reason I ask is that the one we had welded cracked almost immediately once put back in service. I'm postive that the guy who did the weld was knowledgeable and does this for a living so I almost postive it was to no fault to him. Not trying to scare you, but the next time you pull that sucker, take a close look and see if it came back on you. Like you said, it's your ass in the seat and it wouldn't be fun to start leaking coolant out the back of the block at 130 + mph.

Reginald West · #21 (**permalink**) August 22nd, 2007, 02:23 PM

I have not pulled it apart since it was welded but I do look at it often and so far it looks good.The welder I used (like all of them claimed that he is a guru)anyway he said he used a real low heat and a high copper content rod. I think having the hard block in it takes a lot of the strain off the block and makes it much more ridged.