Fuel Question? In-tank Double Or External

nailheadpowered · #1 (**permalink**) November 27th, 2006, 11:56 PM

As Read Im In A Delima, I Will Be Running A Pt-72 83lb Inj Ported Heads And Intake With Alky Etc. Etc. My Question Is I Have A New Reds Double Pump In-tank Fuel Pump Or Should I Go To An External Fuel Pump Setup And Not Look Back? I Was Looking At The Barry Grants. The Reason Im Inquiring Is That Im Worried If For Some Reason One Of The Pumps On The Internal Goes Out It May Lean My Motor Out Turning It Into An Expensive Paper Weight, Im Looking To Get Into The 9's And Want To Be Sure That Fuel Won't Become A Problem. Thanks For Your Info.

nailheadpowered · #2 (**permalink**) November 28th, 2006, 12:14 PM

Ted A. · #3 (**permalink**) November 28th, 2006, 06:27 PM

I would not risk my investment on a double pumper with your power levels. I would go with the Weldon or Aeromotive pump. Lots of guys have had major engine damage from a pump quitting with the double pump setup.

Jeff Rand · #4 (**permalink**) November 28th, 2006, 06:43 PM

I am running the same setup in my car and a few days ago at the West Coast Nats. I had the second pump's fuse go out. On the data log it showed the 83# injectors at 100% duty cycle and EGT's at 1800F(I was lucky and did not blow it up). I have a light in the car to show when the second pump comes on but I did not have a chance to look at it during the run. I now check that fuse before every run but in the future I will be going to a Pro Series Aeromotive external pump.
Jeff

BLACK MAGIC RACING · #5 (**permalink**) December 8th, 2006, 08:10 AM

If you do a lot of streed driving is another factor to consider. If you do, you'll need a pump controller with the weldon or the aeromotive, otherwise you'll burn it out.

HighPSI · #6 (**permalink**) December 8th, 2006, 08:14 AM

The Weldon 2015 is rated as a "continuos duty pump". Some of the Aeromotives are too.

BLACK MAGIC RACING · #7 (**permalink**) December 8th, 2006, 08:59 AM

I stand corrected Cal

By the way, i'm gonna need a manual brake setup...can u hook me up?

Dusty Bradford · #8 (**permalink**) December 8th, 2006, 07:35 PM

Go with an external. We just upgraded to 83's and a -8 feed line on a TSM car. We had 72's and a stock feed and were out of fuel at 9.90's. The car went 9.79 on it's first pass with the new fuel system but burnt the #1 piston and blew the headgasket in lots of places. It has a Red's double pumper. We checked the second pump before the pass and everything was working properly. We're swapping to an external......it's not worth chancing your motor with the intanks.

nailheadpowered · #9 (**permalink**) December 8th, 2006, 07:59 PM

thanks i just picked up an aeromotive pump and filter and also are you running a pump controller? or just using the factory pressure regulator? as im not sure what the difference is between the two or if i need the controller for street use along with track. thanks mike.

Dusty Bradford · #10 (**permalink**) December 9th, 2006, 07:55 AM

Some of the bigger pumps are rated for continuous duty. The need for a pump controller will depend on which pump you have. If you have one of the larger pumps and want to drive it on the street for any amount of distance you'll want a voltage controller. The problem is they pump lots of fuel and the fuels gets hot....leading to vapor lock.

The pump controller has nothing to do with the pressure regulator. The pump controller will lower the voltage to the pump so it won't pump as much fuel, allowing you to drive for longer distances on the street.

You'll still use the factory pressure regulator. I hope you have a -8 feed line also. There's no reason to use an external pump with the restrictive stock feed line. You'll want a bigger feed line and use the factory feed line as the return from the regulator.

nailheadpowered · #11 (**permalink**) December 9th, 2006, 06:03 PM

that was my plan on the fuel lines, also im using an aeromotive A1000 pump and what did yall do with the intake setup do you just remove the pump itself? as i need the hanger for the fuel level indicator and are you going with -8 right to the hanger or did you sump the tank as i was assuming i would need to sump the tank. mike.

Dusty Bradford · #12 (**permalink**) December 10th, 2006, 07:25 AM

Sump the tank and keep the hanger for the sending unit. Remove the pumps from the hanger. We also cut the power wires to the pump outside of the tank near the weatherpack.

TurboBuRick · #13 (**permalink**) December 10th, 2006, 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dusty Bradford

Sump the tank and keep the hanger for the sending unit. Remove the pumps from the hanger. We also cut the power wires to the pump outside of the tank near the weatherpack.

Whats your thought on two pumps on one line? Internal and an external.

Dusty Bradford · #14 (**permalink**) December 10th, 2006, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick87GN

Whats your thought on two pumps on one line? Internal and an external.

Never tried it. I would personally never try it because I can't see how an undersized pump in the tank would adequately feed a bigger external. I know it has been done but I don't have any info on doing it myself.

I could see it working if the intank supplies enough volume but not enough pressure and the external would boost the pressure. In a case where the intank cannot supply enough volume then I can't see how an external inline would be any help. Your still restricted in the size of the hanger.

I would think twin intanks could work with a modded hanger (bigger line size for more flow)

TurboBuRick · #15 (**permalink**) December 10th, 2006, 02:43 PM

My car came with this set up. The pump in the tank was stock and the pickup was untouched. I replaced it with a high volume walboro and cut the step off the pickup tube. Thats got to help a little. I will go down and snap a picture of the external pump. Mabye you can tell me what it is.
Is there a gpm test that can be done? Thanks for you knowledge.
Rick

al shapiro · #16 (**permalink**) December 10th, 2006, 02:45 PM

when you say sump the tank are you meaning that there should be a bung welded in the bottom of the tank in the center and then a AN fitting screwed into the bung? If this is done would the external pump have any trouble picking up a prime? If this is not what you mean can you please explain? Also would you run AN -8 from the tank to the fuel pump and then AN -8 from the fuel pump to the fuel rail or would you run AN -10 to the pump with AN -8 from the pump to the fuel rail? Also does it matter if the filter is before or after the pump? Thanks for your help.

Dusty Bradford · #17 (**permalink**) December 10th, 2006, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick87GN

My car came with this set up. The pump in the tank was stock and the pickup was untouched. I replaced it with a high volume walboro and cut the step off the pickup tube. Thats got to help a little. I will go down and snap a picture of the external pump. Mabye you can tell me what it is.
Is there a gpm test that can be done? Thanks for you knowledge.
Rick

You can search and maybe come up with some gpm #'s. I generally go by what the pump is rated for. Now I'm saying 9.9 or slower with dual intanks. A custom T on the pumps and a larger line size from the T all the way to the rail should help.

Look for a part # or some markings on the pump. I won't be able to tell by a picture. Chances are it's a bosch of some kind.

Dusty Bradford · #18 (**permalink**) December 10th, 2006, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by al shapiro

when you say sump the tank are you meaning that there should be a bung welded in the bottom of the tank in the center and then a AN fitting screwed into the bung? If this is done would the external pump have any trouble picking up a prime? If this is not what you mean can you please explain? Also would you run AN -8 from the tank to the fuel pump and then AN -8 from the fuel pump to the fuel rail or would you run AN -10 to the pump with AN -8 from the pump to the fuel rail? Also does it matter if the filter is before or after the pump? Thanks for your help.

There are sump kits available from Jeg's and other speed shops. It's a well that you weld to your tank. This well has -an outlets on it for your pump feed line. Most of them are -8 or -10. I run the pump behind the tank near the bumper so it has no problem getting prime.

Generally you'd want a -10 to the pump and a -8 to the rail but a -8 will work to the pump. I always run a filter on both sides of the pump. If you run pump gas a lot you need to check the suction filter regularly. Pumps from the older in ground tanks have a lot of trash in them and with a sump all that trash goes directly to the filter. I run a 100 micron suction filter and a 10 micron discharge filter.

nailheadpowered · #19 (**permalink**) December 10th, 2006, 09:57 PM

thanks for that info as i have one filter already so i will pick up another one and also where exactly did you mount your pump as i have the A1000 aeromotive and was thinking the frame rail or as you did the rear bumper support if that is where you put yours thanks mike.