Arizona: This just gets better and better

[818GN]

Arizona immigration debate heats up with Gov Jan Brewer saying most illegal immigrants smuggle drugs


Just when you thought the illegal immigration fight in Arizona couldn't get any hotter, the governor lobbed a grenade into the fiery controversy, saying that most illegal immigrants are smuggling drugs across the border.

"We all know that the majority of the people that are coming to Arizona and trespassing are now become drug mules," Gov. Jan Brewer told the Arizona Republic Friday.

"They're coming across our borders in huge numbers. The drug cartels have taken control of the immigration."

Brewer made similar remarks last week during a televised debate between the states four Republican candidates for governor.

One of Brewer's opponents suggested the majority of people crossing the border illegally do so to feed their families. Brewer shot back: "They're coming here, and they're bringing drugs."

Illegal immigrants looking for work are being "accosted" by drug cartels, she said.

Brewer's comments Friday detonated outcries that the Governor's claims were exaggerated and racist.

University of Arizona history professor Oscar Martinez challenged Brewer to produce stats to back up her comments.

"If she has no data and is just mouthing off for political reasons, as I believe she is doing, then she must apologize to the people of Arizona for lying to them so blatantly," he said.

A spokesman for the U.S. Border Patrol also downplayed the comments.

"I wouldn't say that every person that is apprehended is being used as a mule," Mario Escalante said.

Crime rates in Arizona's border towns have been flat for the past 10 years, the Arizona Republic reports, even as drug violence in Mexico intensifies.

Border Patrol and the Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency were unable to provide data to support or dispute Brewer.

However, the president of the Border Patrol union said that since drug charges carry stiffer penalties, few illegal immigrants trying to find work were willing to take the risk of prison time.

"The majority of people continue to come across in search of work, not to smuggle drugs," T.J. Bonner said.

In April, Brewer signed the controversial SB 1070 law which allows law enforcement to question a person's immigration status if they have reasonable suspicion the person is in the U.S. illegally.

The law is scheduled to take effect July 29, barring any legal challenges.

The Department of Justice says it is exploring the possibility of suing the state.

According to a recent Rasmussen poll, 61% support Brewer in her race to win the Republican nomination for Governor. Further bolstering Brewer, 89% of GOP voters support the immigration law.

Wow, another major claim by Gov. Brewer, yet no facts to back it up. If what she says is true, and it may be, then were are the sources/stats/data to prove it. She currently has none.

It's odd that she would make such a claim, even though crime has not gone up in 10 years along the Arizona/Mexico border towns. I guess in Arizona, there is no connection between drugs and crime, at least according to her logic.

[krom]

Quoting from a New York newspaper that interviews Oscar Martinez a boycott advocate. He also appears on a racist La Rasa website.

http://nuevaraza.wordpress.com/

A Message From Boycott Arizona Re: May 29 Nat’l Day of Action


More from our Mexican friends.

21 killed in rival Mexican gang shootout near U.S.-Arizona border

[gordyzx9r]

Originally Posted by 818GN

Wow, another major claim by Gov. Brewer, yet no facts to back it up. If what she says is true, and it may be, then were are the sources/stats/data to prove it. She currently has none.

It's odd that she would make such a claim, even though crime has not gone up in 10 years along the Arizona/Mexico border towns. I guess in Arizona, there is no connection between drugs and crime, at least according to her logic.

Well, it could just be that they're transporting the drugs via AZ to the rest of the USA like a FEDEX hub.

[Chuck Leeper]

find out....Shoot the next 100, and see how many are mules!
As for the 21 in the shootout... Too bad it wasn't 2100.

[Nick Micale]

Originally Posted by 818GN

Wow, another major claim by Gov. Brewer, yet no facts to back it up. If what she says is true, and it may be, then were are the sources/stats/data to prove it. She currently has none.

It's odd that she would make such a claim, even though crime has not gone up in 10 years along the Arizona/Mexico border towns. I guess in Arizona, there is no connection between drugs and crime, at least according to her logic.

What planet are you from? Certainly one far removed from Arizona.

Just look at the crap you posted? A liberal professor says her "claims are not true and she is lying".

A spokesman for the Border Patrol, a federal agency under white house control " downplayed" the comments.

ICE, also a federal agency, will not provide data.

The lying, liberal, racist in reverse, newspaper Arizona Republic is all for illegals and so far to the left it is pathetic.

As far a crime not up, come here and try to convince a normal, regular citizen of that. The rag newspaper and media downplay and ignore illegals and crime even when innocent people are being, killed, kidnapped, shot at, robbed and so on.

I have lived here almost 40 years and have seen neighborhoods become violent and dangerous due to illegals, NOT whites, blacks, indians or any other race or group. My wife and I, as well as many others are now armed to be able to protect our homes and ourselves.

What is odd here, besides your smug attitude, is the willing of our governor and a few other politicians to stand up and do what is right, and NECESSARY, to make our state safe again, since the feds are so unwilling to do the right thing. Why do you thing the great majority of people here in the state, the ones that count, support her in what she continues to do.

Too bad many of the other politicians do not have the "balls" to do the right thing for the people of this country. She is upholding what is already a federal law that the jackasses want to ignore.

[818GN]

Originally Posted by Nick Micale

What planet are you from? Certainly one far removed from Arizona.

Just look at the crap you posted? A liberal professor says her "claims are not true and she is lying".

A spokesman for the Border Patrol, a federal agency under white house control " downplayed" the comments.

ICE, also a federal agency, will not provide data.

The lying, liberal, racist in reverse, newspaper Arizona Republic is all for illegals and so far to the left it is pathetic.

As far a crime not up, come here and try to convince a normal, regular citizen of that. The rag newspaper and media downplay and ignore illegals and crime even when innocent people are being, killed, kidnapped, shot at, robbed and so on.

I have lived here almost 40 years and have seen neighborhoods become violent and dangerous due to illegals, NOT whites, blacks, indians or any other race or group. My wife and I, as well as many others are now armed to be able to protect our homes and ourselves.

What is odd here, besides your smug attitude, is the willing of our governor and a few other politicians to stand up and do what is right, and NECESSARY, to make our state safe again, since the feds are so unwilling to do the right thing. Why do you thing the great majority of people here in the state, the ones that count, support her in what she continues to do.

Too bad many of the other politicians do not have the "balls" to do the right thing for the people of this country. She is upholding what is already a federal law that the jackasses want to ignore.

Wow, sure struck a chord with that one. Calm down, take a breath.

See this is what I am talking about. Am I denying that it's a problem? Hell no.

I am saying a politician should be held accountable for the words coming out of his/her mouth. That they should provide some FACTS for drafting/signing/implementing such a controversial law. Is that too much ask?

My smug attitude? No, not even. I am in California. Our immigration problem is the same, if not worse than yours.

Nick, let me ask you. What you done to make a difference, concerning protecting your state/city/home from this "invasion" of illegals?

Have you written to your elected officials?
Have you voted on any initiatives to curb the issue?
Have you joined the Minutemen Civil Defense Corps.?

If you want here is their contact info in Phoenix.

Phoenix Chapter

Chapter Director/Media Liaison
Phone: 520-829-3112


The USA has done too good of a job in extending Civil Rights to ANYONE on our soil, citizen or not. The same rights and liberties you take for granted, others have as well. The civil rights system is too good here and now everyone takes notice. Unfortunately, people are beginning to realize that you can undo a certain groups civil liberties with the stroke of a pen.

You are right in saying the problem is out hand, it is. Areas are going downhill, but throwing people out will never fly with the majority.

[BlownZ]

Throwing people out COMPLETELY flies with the majority. You need to google some stats on opinion polls when it comes to illegals. The politicians don't have the balls to do anything but the people of America do.

The Tea Party is gaining steam LARGELY in part due to the immigration issue.

[KITT1983]

Originally Posted by BlownZ

Throwing people out COMPLETELY flies with the majority. You need to google some stats on opinion polls when it comes to illegals. The politicians don't have the balls to do anything but the people of America do.

The Tea Party is gaining steam LARGELY in part due to the immigration issue.

i agree


the liberals moonbats dont want the illegals thrown out

[whitehot84]

[QUOTE=818GN;2536307]

Wow, sure struck a chord with that one. Calm down, take a breath.

Have you written to your elected officials?
Have you voted on any initiatives to curb the issue?
Have you joined the Minutemen Civil Defense Corps.?

This is supposed to be the Governments job. The elected officials don't care, initiatives haven't been put up for a vote and the Minutemen have no teeth.

The USA has done too good of a job in extending Civil Rights to ANYONE on our soil, citizen or not. The same rights and liberties you take for granted, others have as well. The civil rights system is too good here and now everyone takes notice. Unfortunately, people are beginning to realize that you can undo a certain groups civil liberties with the stroke of a pen.

Civil liberties are guaranteed to citizens and legal aliens. Illegals do not have the same protections.

You are right in saying the problem is out hand, it is. Areas are going downhill, but throwing people out will never fly with the majority.

That's funny. Over 70% of the Arizona population approves the bill and would just as soon throw all the illegals out.

[madmax0]

Originally Posted by 818GN

I am saying a politician should be held accountable for the words coming out of his/her mouth. That they should provide some FACTS for drafting/signing/implementing such a controversial law. Is that too much ask?

Where are all your other posts asking for FACTS for things every single politician says with zero backup? I looked, you have not made any here. Seems like you've picked a specific person and a specific issue to dwell on.

[818GN]

Civil liberties are guaranteed to citizens and legal aliens. Illegals do not have the same protections.

Wrong. If that is the case, then why have the courts ruled different, IN FAVOR of illegal immigrants.

Vicente v. Barnett- Rancher forced to pay civil damages for assaulting illegals.

Morales v. Barnett- Rancher forced to pay $100,000 in damages to assaulting legal Mexican American citizens.

Immigrants Win Arizona Ranch- Illegal Salvadorian immigrants traveling into US through Arizona, detained and assaulted. Court ruled THAT THEY GET THE 70 ACRE RANCH THEY ILLEGALLY CROSSED!!

There is a legal precedent in this country of awarding the victim (legal citizen or not) the property, civil judgment, or monetary damages in an assault case. When it is known the attacker has an expressed dislike for that party based on race (Mexican, Black, White, Green, etc) then it automatically becomes a hate crime.

Here is the case that began that started it all: Donald vs. United Klans of America.

Her son was killed because of his race. She was awarded $7 million dollars. She was given ALL OF THEIR PROPERTY to satisfy the judgment.

SO go ahead guys, fire away when they cross. When you get sued for assaulting, killing, harassing a HUMAN BEING, regardless of legal status. they may own your home. BTW, even if most of the immigrants are dumb, as most seem to think, their lawyers aren't.

Where are all your other posts asking for FACTS for things every single politician says with zero backup? I looked, you have not made any here. Seems like you've picked a specific person and a specific issue to dwell on.

I barely have 100 posts, not several hundred, or a few thousand as others do. So far, this is the only issue that interests me, at this point. I'm sure I pop into some other topics sooner or later.

[818GN]

That's funny. Over 70% of the Arizona population approves the bill and would just as soon throw all the illegals out.

Not entirely true.


Nationally, 60% Favor Letting Local Police Stop and Verify Immigration Status

77% of REPUBLICANS support
62% Overall

So far you are correct, yes. However you left out 1 important detail. Here is the excerpt from the poll.

"At the same time, however, 58% of all voters are at least somewhat concerned that “efforts to identify and deport illegal immigrants will also end up violating the civil rights of some U.S. citizens.” That figure includes 29% who are Very Concerned about possible civil rights violations."

The American people are very concerned about the civil rights violations by going this route.

Your numbers only reflect Arizona residents, not the rest of the country.

Here is another poll, just for reference.

ABC News/Washington Post Poll

Most people, 57-61%, support a path to legal status for the illegals that are ALREADY HERE, as long as they pay a fine and meet other requirements.

The steps Arizona is taking is noteworthy are commendable, however with the civil rights protections this country offers, I am afraid it will be tied up in the courts for years to come.

[Nick Micale]

Originally Posted by 818GN

Wow, sure struck a chord with that one. Calm down, take a breath.

See this is what I am talking about. Am I denying that it's a problem? Hell no.

I am saying a politician should be held accountable for the words coming out of his/her mouth. That they should provide some FACTS for drafting/signing/implementing such a controversial law. Is that too much ask?

My smug attitude?

Nick, let me ask you. What you done to make a difference, concerning protecting your state/city/home from this "invasion" of illegals?..

Where the hell do you get off telling me to calm down and ask what I have done?

Smug attitude is only the start, pompus, arrogant and smart-ass are only some of the words to describe you.

Did you just join this board to stir crap here, or as a usual internet ass-clown hide behind a screen name so as not to expose whatever you are trying to hide.

How about YOU providing some "credible facts"?

I am here, and have been here lots of years because of the prime mission of the board - turbo Buick tech. But when I see stupidity, crap, lies and un-infomed critics, it does get me fired up.

You sir, continue to show you true colors, and continue to try and discuss in an area that you have presented no facts or actual knowledge of what the subject is all about. Because you are in Cali, and have illegals, makes you an expert of what Arizona is faced with and at least is trying to resolve the problem?

Yes, I am fired up because our good, productive citizens are not only being robbed by illegals, many are also being killed and injured, not to mention the heavy financial burden we are now facing.

[salvageV6]

I unlike Jan Brewer and the OP don't really care about the QUANTITY of laws that ILLEGALS are breaking.

One is enough for complete and quick deportation or jail time.

After all it's in the EXISTING laws, hence the name ILLEGAL.

[818GN]

Originally Posted by Nick Micale

Where the hell do you get off telling me to calm down and ask what I have done?

Smug attitude is only the start, pompus, arrogant and smart-ass are only some of the words to describe you.

Did you just join this board to stir crap here, or as a usual internet ass-clown hide behind a screen name so as not to expose whatever you are trying to hide.

How about YOU providing some "credible facts"?

I am here, and have been here lots of years because of the prime mission of the board - turbo Buick tech. But when I see stupidity, crap, lies and un-infomed critics, it does get me fired up.

You sir, continue to show you true colors, and continue to try and discuss in an area that you have presented no facts or actual knowledge of what the subject is all about. Because you are in Cali, and have illegals, makes you an expert of what Arizona is faced with and at least is trying to resolve the problem?

Yes, I am fired up because our good, productive citizens are not only being robbed by illegals, many are also being killed and injured, not to mention the heavy financial burden we are now facing.

First of all, I've read your posts on TB tech. You know your stuff and are extremely knowledgeable. Some of your posts have help me solve some issues with my own 87 GN.

This is a political forum and , at times, tempers flare and tensions rise. All part of having a political debate. I mean no disrespect to ANYONE, in any way, shape, or form. I have not, nor will I, call some one an ass, ass clown, etc. I'm not here to name call.

I have already proved, citing numerous court rulings, that immigrants, legal or not, have basic civil rights. When those rights are violated, the other parties pay. In all do respect, have you read any of my posts? Have you failed to see all the sources I have listed, both here and in the "Press 1 for English" thread? I have cited opinion polls, 2000 Census, 2010 Census, numerous court rulings, etc.

I referenced an article where Gov. Brewer states that the majority of illegals are drug smugglers. Yet there is not 1 source that she provides. Pure opinion on her part. Show me 1 source that states, with a number or percentage, that most illegals crossing the border are drug smugglers and I will retract my statement. That is my point.

This topic is so sensitive that one must provide a source to back up their opinion, in order for both sides to debate effectively. If someone debates based on pure opinion, then nothing will be solved.

I am not arguing the point as to whether coming here illegal and mooching off the system is right. It is not. Everyone should contribute their fair share. Like I said before, the civil rights protection is this country is too good. So good in fact, that it is impeding progress in dealing with this problem.

[cruzn57]

facts? stats?
she gets her information from AZ - city, county, and state law enforcement.
NOT from Biased federal BS,
if you wanna listen to a hispanic professor who want to lower the quality of the US to that of mexico, and bring in all his relatives, ........
do me a favor, head on down to Nogales or tucson, see for your self,
walk up to some ILLEGALS ( law breakers) and see if you live thru that!

if thats not enough?

A Mexican drug cartel has threatened police officers in Arizona who confiscated a marijuana shipment, prompting the small town department to warn its officers to remain armed and have radios with them at all times, and keep their body armor handy. Police and experts believe the warning against the Nogales, Ariz., cops marks the first time that powerful Mexican drug cartels, used to bribing and bullying police south of the border, have targeted U.S. officers.

Read more U.S. News: Latest Headlines, Video and Photos from Across the United States - ABC News

in the middle east they call them TERRORISTS, and we are at war with them!!
not here, obuthole calls them democrats/ voters
__________________

[818GN]

facts? stats?
she gets her information from AZ - city, county, and state law enforcement.
NOT from Biased federal BS,

Here is the article, again.

Arizona immigration debate heats up with Gov Jan Brewer saying most illegal immigrants smuggle drugs

Where do she cite any facts behind such an inflammatory accusation? Any stats? Studies? Anything?

I don't see anything any mention to back up her claim.

do me a favor, head on down to Nogales or tucson, see for your self,
walk up to some ILLEGALS ( law breakers) and see if you live thru that!

I agree it's a problem. I am not denying that.

in the middle east they call them TERRORISTS, and we are at war with them!!
not here, obuthole calls them democrats/ voters

I forgot, the Mexicans took down the Twin Towers. The Mexicans beheaded our American Journalist(s) (i.e. Nick Pearl). I forgot, Richard Reid, "The Shoe Bomber", and let's not forget Tim McVeigh, "The OKC Bomber".

Nope don't see any "Mexican Terrorists" here.

Are seriously comparing the damage these genuine terrorists have done to the Mexicans crossing our borders? Sorry to say, but you are completely WRONG in your comparison.

Point is there are not even close to a terrorist.

BTW, here is a link to U.S. cities with the highest Hispanic populations.

List of U.S. cities with large Hispanic populations

California takes up 33 out of the 61 cities w/ 30k or more people.
Arizona has 1, Tucson at number 38 out of 61.

For the last time, I agree that illegal immigration is a serious problem for this country. However the attitude of "Shoot first, ask question later", "BUild a Wall", and "Just throw them all out" just isn't realistic. Given today's rapid use of the internet, civil rights groups, legal precedents, many suggestions on this board just are not realistic.

They are logical, yes, but not realistic.

[GKMOZ]

Police force threatened by Bandidos Mexican Drug Cartels Issue Threat to Arizona Cops - Patriotic Resistance

[T- Type Tim]

818 your an idiot..... why don't you find something else to do?

[madmax0]

Originally Posted by 818GN

I barely have 100 posts, not several hundred, or a few thousand as others do. So far, this is the only issue that interests me, at this point. I'm sure I pop into some other topics sooner or later.

I doubt it.

You're making a lot of claims about their civil rights being violated by this law. If the law specifically forbids it (and it does) then you should know the law is not the issue, and is therefore not unconstitutional.

[madmax0]

Originally Posted by 818GN

Not entirely true.

Actually, it is. He said "70% of the Arizona population"
From your own link (that is apparently the same report he read), it says

Not surprisingly, support for the law authorizing local police to arrest illegal immigrants is a bit higher in Arizona than it is nationwide. As one of the states most impacted by illegal immigration, 70% of voters statewide favor the new law.

You also ignored the title of the article

Nationally, 60% Favor Letting Local Police Stop and Verify Immigration Status

So you can say 58% are concerned about civil rights, but 60% say go ahead and stop em and ask. In previous polls from Rasmussen this number was as high as 70%, and as low as 55%.

So we can sit here and cherry pick all day long, but the fact is the majority in both AZ and the US support the law and support asking the question, apparently regardless of the possible consequences.

77% of REPUBLICANS support
62% Overall

That isnt correct either. The article does not say 62% overall. Go back and read it again. HINT:Try reading the headline/title.

Here's another interesting fact:

Additionally, 77% of voters nationwide oppose drivers’ licenses for undocumented immigrants.

So they're concerned about civil rights, but they dont want them driving.

Would be best to not stick too much faith or anything else into poll results, IMO.

[injdinjn]

I gonna take a wild a$$ guess here and state that someone living in Phoenix, AZ knows a WHOLE LOT more about the illegal immigrant problem there then some liberal from the SFV in CA.

AZ DID NOT PASS A RACIST LAW. All they did was say "We are going to enforce currant laws". Laws the Federal govt is ignoring and in doing so cost the taxpayers of this country $billions every year.

[GSTOY]

I completely applaud Arizona in putting their foot down on illegal's. It's about time someone make a stand! We finally have someone with the guts to put some teeth into laws to protect true US citizens. I find it amazing how people bitch about Arizona's law, yet have you read what Mexico does to illegals? Have you? It makes the Arizona laws tame. How bout some damn support for people trying to make a differance. The bottom line here is they are entering this country illegally. If you want to be a citizen of the US, then go about it the right way. I'm tired of working my ass off, only to see my tax dollars pay for their food stamps and other entitlements this gov't hands out to these people.

[Nick Micale]

*
Immigration Law Success - Video - FoxNews.com

[whitehot84]

[QUOTE=818GN;2536945]

Arizona immigration debate heats up with Gov Jan Brewer saying most illegal immigrants smuggle drugs[/URL]

Where do she cite any facts behind such an inflammatory accusation? Any stats? Studies? Anything?

I don't see anything any mention to back up her claim.



I agree it's a problem. I am not denying that.



I forgot, the Mexicans took down the Twin Towers. The Mexicans beheaded our American Journalist(s) (i.e. Nick Pearl). I forgot, Richard Reid, "The Shoe Bomber", and let's not forget Tim McVeigh, "The OKC Bomber".

Nope don't see any "Mexican Terrorists" here.

Are seriously comparing the damage these genuine terrorists have done to the Mexicans crossing our borders? Sorry to say, but you are completely WRONG in your comparison.

Point is there are not even close to a terrorist.

BTW, here is a link to U.S. cities with the highest Hispanic populations.



California takes up 33 out of the 61 cities w/ 30k or more people.
Arizona has 1, Tucson at number 38 out of 61.

The question should not be how many but rather what percentage of the population of the city.

For the last time, I agree that illegal immigration is a serious problem for this country. However the attitude of "Shoot first, ask question later", "BUild a Wall", and "Just throw them all out" just isn't realistic. Given today's rapid use of the internet, civil rights groups, legal precedents, many suggestions on this board just are not realistic.

They are logical, yes, but not realistic.

BS

GOV. BILL RICHARDSON: Well, on the American side I believe very strongly that there is no immigration policy, there is not enough resources at the border, Border Patrol, the 9/11 Commission recommends 2,000 Border Patrol agents, the administration proposes 200. Clearly in my stretch of 180 miles in New Mexico there's very little patrolling going on, and as Gov. Napolitano said in her clip, the traffic of human beings is spawning smuggling of drugs, desecration of property.

And as for your statement about Mexicans not being terrorists>>>>>>>
Much has been in the news recently about La Raza, what a military intelligence acquaintance recently dubbed “a mestizo terrorist organization.” Republican congressman Charlie Norwood of Georgia’s ninth district has called La Raza a “radical…pro-illegal immigration lobbying organization that supports racist groups.”

What is La Raza? The National Council of La Raza (its full name) is a pro-mestizo advocacy organization. The title “La Raza” is Spanish for “the race,” and its underlying rational is to support the interests of the mestizo race (people who are mostly Amerindian blood with a little Spaniard blood mixed in – people mostly from Mexico, Central America, and neighboring areas).

La Raza is anti-European in the sense that it opposes European Americans (whites) and favors the interests of indigenous mestizos. La Raza is notorious for supporting causes like amnesty, illegal immigration, birthright citizenship, chain migration, attempting to censor white journalists (most famously, Lou Dobbs), and removing white authors from schools to be replaced by mestizo authors.

[Chuck Leeper]

Originally Posted by injdinjn

I gonna take a wild a$$ guess here and state that someone living in Phoenix, AZ knows a WHOLE LOT more about the illegal immigrant problem there then some liberal from the SFV in CA.

AZ DID NOT PASS A RACIST LAW. All they did was say "We are going to enforce currant laws". Laws the Federal govt is ignoring and in doing so cost the taxpayers of this country $billions every year.

Should read his states law regarding illegals. AIRC, it's 832B??
Basically it says the exact same thing as AZ law.. Been on the books for a while.. Obviously, never enforced. [A look at the illegal pop #'s will verify that.]
818, what is it you do in SFV??

[cruzn57]

Originally Posted by Chuck Leeper

Should read his states law regarding illegals. AIRC, it's 832B??
Basically it says the exact same thing as AZ law.. Been on the books for a while.. Obviously, never enforced. [A look at the illegal pop #'s will verify that.]
818, what is it you do in SFV??

Day laborer at home depot?
La Raza union steward?
anchor baby supporter?
coyote?????

[salvageV6]

He mops the floors after Weepie sweeps up at the "Museum".

[818GN]

Originally Posted by madmax0

Actually, it is. He said "70% of the Arizona population"
From your own link (that is apparently the same report he read), it says



You also ignored the title of the article



So you can say 58% are concerned about civil rights, but 60% say go ahead and stop em and ask. In previous polls from Rasmussen this number was as high as 70%, and as low as 55%.

So we can sit here and cherry pick all day long, but the fact is the majority in both AZ and the US support the law and support asking the question, apparently regardless of the possible consequences.



That isnt correct either. The article does not say 62% overall. Go back and read it again. HINT:Try reading the headline/title.

Here's another interesting fact:


So they're concerned about civil rights, but they dont want them driving.

Would be best to not stick too much faith or anything else into poll results, IMO.

I agree, which is why I don't only rely on polls to support my argument. You are correct in saying that the majority of people are against illegal immigration. However, one point that can not be ignored, is that the majority (58%) see that there is a civil rights risk as well, in dealing with this problem.

Originally Posted by Chuck Leeper

Should read his states law regarding illegals. AIRC, it's 832B??
Basically it says the exact same thing as AZ law.. Been on the books for a while.. Obviously, never enforced. [A look at the illegal pop #'s will verify that.]
818, what is it you do in SFV??

I am a wholesaler in the wireless industry.

Originally Posted by cruzn57

Day laborer at home depot?
La Raza union steward?
anchor baby supporter?
coyote?????

I am against the anchor baby strategy. That is one loophole that needs closed.

[madmax0]

Originally Posted by 818GN

I agree, which is why I don't only rely on polls to support my argument. You are correct in saying that the majority of people are against illegal immigration. However, one point that can not be ignored, is that the majority (58%) see that there is a civil rights risk as well, in dealing with this problem.

And yet they are still in favor of doing something about it. The law also forbids violations of civil rights. There is really nowhere to go or argue that this law violates civil rights, it CLEARLY does not.

[818GN]

[QUOTE=whitehot84;2537213]

Originally Posted by 818GN

The question should not be how many but rather what percentage of the population of the city.

BS

GOV. BILL RICHARDSON: Well, on the American side I believe very strongly that there is no immigration policy, there is not enough resources at the border, Border Patrol, the 9/11 Commission recommends 2,000 Border Patrol agents, the administration proposes 200. Clearly in my stretch of 180 miles in New Mexico there's very little patrolling going on, and as Gov. Napolitano said in her clip, the traffic of human beings is spawning smuggling of drugs, desecration of property.

And as for your statement about Mexicans not being terrorists>>>>>>>
Much has been in the news recently about La Raza, what a military intelligence acquaintance recently dubbed “a mestizo terrorist organization.” Republican congressman Charlie Norwood of Georgia’s ninth district has called La Raza a “radical…pro-illegal immigration lobbying organization that supports racist groups.”

What is La Raza? The National Council of La Raza (its full name) is a pro-mestizo advocacy organization. The title “La Raza” is Spanish for “the race,” and its underlying rational is to support the interests of the mestizo race (people who are mostly Amerindian blood with a little Spaniard blood mixed in – people mostly from Mexico, Central America, and neighboring areas).

La Raza is anti-European in the sense that it opposes European Americans (whites) and favors the interests of indigenous mestizos. La Raza is notorious for supporting causes like amnesty, illegal immigration, birthright citizenship, chain migration, attempting to censor white journalists (most famously, Lou Dobbs), and removing white authors from schools to be replaced by mestizo authors.

A mestizo terrorist organization? Really? So just because on Republican Congressman, labels them a "mestizo terrorist organization", they are terrorists? You are wrong.

Have you checked State Department's terror watch list? I have, and no sign of La Raza. Same with American Extremist groups, not listed there either.

State Department Terror List
American Extremist Group List

Also take note of La Raza's current financial donors as well. Here are just the one's that have committed to a multi year, multi-million dollar commitment.

Corporate Partner list
The Allstate Corporation
Bank of America
The Coca-Cola Company
Citi
Fannie Mae
Freddie Mac
Ford Motor Company
General Motors Corporation
PepsiCo Foundation
The PMI Group, Inc.
State Farm Insurance Companies
UPS
Univision
Wal-Mart Stores, Inc.

Not to mention other Fortune 500 companies that have committed to La Raza, but in smaller amounts.

Corporate Partners
Best Buy
Chevron Corporation
Clear Channel Communication
Coors Brewing Company
Hershey Foods Corporation
The McGraw-Hill Companies
Plus many more......

They are definitely not a terrorist organization.

Now concerning the following quote on Hispanic education:

removing white authors from schools to be replaced by mestizo authors.

Arizona's school system is attempting to pass a law, omitting most, if not all, Hispanic history references for the 19th century to present under HB 2281. The state is choosing which historical events the schools are allowed to teach, all the while neglecting the true history of the state. Events being being wiped from the history calendar induce:

- Mexican laborers contributions in building Arizona's railroads
- origin of Mexican settlement in Arizona
- History of the Border Patrol
- Mexican laborers contributions to World War 2
etc......

So again, who is being censored here? The "white authors" or the historical contributions of the Mexican people. After all, Arizona did belong to Mexico before the U.S. purchased it after the Treaty of Guadalupe in 1849.

BTW, I am aware that HB 2281 has not gone into effect yet.

AZ DID NOT PASS A RACIST LAW. All they did was say "We are going to enforce currant laws". Laws the Federal govt is ignoring and in doing so cost the taxpayers of this country $billions every year.

The ACLU currently has a case in court, Friendly House et al. v. Halliday et al, that has been filed by a Mexican American citizen who was stopped solely based on the color of his skin. The only way for the law to be effective is to employ racial profiling, which is a violation of the 14th Amendment (equal protection under the country's laws) and a person's civil rights. SB 1070 targets people that are not white, that is obvious.

ALL PEOPLE, LEGAL OR NOT, IN THE UNITED STATES ARE COVER BY THE CONSTITUTION AND HAVE CIVIL RIGHTS PROTECTION.

The Supreme Court has determined this over 100yrs ago.

Yick Wo v. Hopkins (1886)- "the Court ruled that the 14th Amendment's statement, "Nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws," applied to all persons "without regard to any differences of race, of color, or of nationality," and to "an alien, who has entered the country, and has become subject in all respects to its jurisdiction, and a part of its population, although alleged to be illegally here."

Wong Wing vs U.S. (1896)- Court, in the case of Wong Wing v. US, further applied the citizenship-blind nature of the Constitution to the 5th and 6th amendments, stating ". . . it must be concluded that all persons within the territory of the United States are entitled to the protection guaranteed by those amendments, and that even aliens shall not be held to answer for a capital or other infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property without due process of law."

Plyler v. Doe (1982)- Supreme Court struck down a Texas law prohibiting enrollment of illegal aliens in public school. In its decision, the Court held, "The illegal aliens who are plaintiffs in these cases challenging the statute may claim the benefit of the Equal Protection Clause, which provides that no State shall 'deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.' Whatever his status under the immigration laws, an alien is a 'person' in any ordinary sense of that term… The undocumented status of these children does not establish a sufficient rational basis for denying them benefits that the State affords other residents."

Even the Pledge of Allegiance, is quite broad in it's profound statements.

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.



So yes, even illegal aliens have the same access to the court system, same protections against civil rights violations, ans the same Constitutional rights as we Americans have.

[madmax0]

Originally Posted by 818GN

The only way for the law to be effective is to employ racial profiling

That is just personal opinion, and not fact. The law forbids profiling. Did you bother to read it? Go read it. Its quite clear. In the case it happens, its like everything else. You sue for damages. That is your reparation.

[T- Type Tim]

Well I guess there's no changing anybodys mind . Tell you what, lets just sit back and watch what happens at the end of the month when the law takes effect in AZ. Should be an interesting time.

[WeAreVenom]

Some people may not agree with 818 but you've got to appluad his efforts at least.

[818GN]

Feds to file lawsuit over Arizona immigration law

Suing over the Supremeacy clause in the Constitution, stating Federal law supersedes state law. This is the same tactic used in California when the Feds sued over the Medical Marijuana laws and they have won using that strategy.

Governor files motion to dismiss Tucson officer's lawsuit to block SB1070

Also a Tucson police officer, Martin Escobar, is suing Arizona as well to block the law on the basis that it violates Constitutional rights. The city of Tucson has also joined the lawsuit on his behalf.

That is just personal opinion, and not fact. The law forbids profiling. Did you bother to read it? Go read it. Its quite clear. In the case it happens, its like everything else. You sue for damages. That is your reparation.

In this case, Friendly House et al. v. Halliday et al (no pun intended), it DID happen, and the ACLU is suing for alot more than damages or reparation as you say. All it takes is one person to feel "racially profiled" and to be able to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt.

Yes SB1070 the forbids racial profiling, in context. However, when everyone getting popped is of one race, one color....does one really need to connect the dots on that one? Arizona has made it known, that this law is about Mexican immigrants only. That is why Mexico petitioned the court, and is submitting their own brief to a Federal judge presiding over the case(s)

Judge lets Mexico have voice in suit on Ariz. law

So far this law, not even in effect yet, has really done great things to Arizona.

Tourism is up:
Arizona tourism damaged by SB 1070 illegal immigration fight, drug violence along Mexican border

People are flocking to state for Business, Conventions, and Events:

More Artists Boycott Arizona Over Immigration
Arizona Boycott List Continues to Grow
Arizona Law Continues to Spur Debate and Convention Cancellations

Way to go Gov. Brewer. Unemployment is at 9.6% locally, foreclosure rate is very high, and she managed to drive business AWAY from the state due to a nationwide boycott. The state is getting sued by the Feds, one of the its own cities (Tucson), and Mexico has joined the battle and the boycott.

Some people may not agree with 818 but you've got to applaud his efforts at least.

Illegal immigration is a problem and threat to this country's well being. However, it will take a very long and intricate process to solve it. You can't just pass laws, not taking into account Civil Rights and the Constitution. People nowadays are always looking for loopholes to get around laws, statutes, etc. The entire immigration system needs to be reformed, not bits and piece, and especially not in such a controversial way like this.

BTW, unless your Republican and/or Conservative on this board w/ these topics, the only applause you will get, is a slap to the back of your head.

And yet they are still in favor of doing something about it. The law also forbids violations of civil rights. There is really nowhere to go or argue that this law violates civil rights, it CLEARLY does not.

Max, I am afraid several lawsuits, a nationwide boycott, and a declining tourism market disagree with you opinion. However, your opinion, is protected by the same piece of paper that is the main defense in these lawsuits.

Will the law get struck down? Maybe,maybe not.

I would say, at the very least, an injunction will pass, keeping this thing in the courts for the next few years.

Last, whitehot84, I am still waiting on your rebuttal on your claim of Mexicans being terrorists.