A Serious Set of Questions for Serious Liberals

[TT/A1233]

These questions are only posed for one reason; to gain insight into the thought process of the liberal mind. It's not written to argue, debate or endorse ANY candidate. I won't respond, nor should anyone else to inflammatory posts. Just tell me why you feel the way you do to support the concept of Liberal ideals.

For those Conservatives in this forum please refrain from personally attacking anyone who responds in the positive. It only diminishes Conservatives.

- What gravitates you to the Democrat party?

- What is it about Liberalism that makes you vote for those who espouse such ideals?

- What supports Liberalism you can point to in the Declaration of Independence or United States Constitution that supports your cause?

This is a very sincere set of questions and am only trying to understand. I'll be VERY happy to respond in kind to a separate thread that poses these same questions to me on the Conservative side.

[No Tie]

That was either pin dropping or crickets.Im not sure.Must be above their
pay grade?I hope your not expecting logical answers.

[quickerthanmost]

What is it about Corporate Socialism and trickle down economics that make an average COP like you kiss GOP a$$?

What is it about applying the "boot straps" theory to every american, even the truly needy? ( absolutely no social conscious)

What is it about( especially being a man) that you want Goverment to be involved with women's reproductive rights even when she is RAPED!? ( who are you to tell a woman what she can or can't do with her body? and meddle in your bedroom? especially when most of the perverts are republicans ( the do as I say not as I do approach)? ( I don't aprove of abortion

Why is VIAGRA covered by insurance and not Birth control for women?

Why is it OK for women to make less than men for the same JOB?

Why is a being lied into a war OK? even after the Fact when documents PROVE it?????????

Why is a made up story of adam and Eve ok to be taught as FACT vs. evolution?

Why is ithe middle class the enemy of the GOP? shipping jobs overseas and continuing tax breaks for those same companies?

With record Billions of $$$$$ in profits why do we need to give BIG oil MORE tax breaks?

WTF??????????

[STAGE 2]

Originally Posted by quickerthanmost

What is it about Corporate Socialism and trickle down economics that make an average COP like you kiss GOP a$$?

What is it about applying the "boot straps" theory to every american, even the truly needy? ( absolutely no social conscious)

What is it about( especially being a man) that you want Goverment to be involved with women's reproductive rights even when she is RAPED!? ( who are you to tell a woman what she can or can't do with her body? and meddle in your bedroom? especially when most of the perverts are republicans ( the do as I say not as I do approach)? ( I don't aprove of abortion

Why is VIAGRA covered by insurance and not Birth control for women?

Why is it OK for women to make less than men for the same JOB?

Why is a being lied into a war OK? even after the Fact when documents PROVE it?????????

Why is a made up story of adam and Eve ok to be taught as FACT vs. evolution?

Why is ithe middle class the enemy of the GOP? shipping jobs overseas and continuing tax breaks for those same companies?

With record Billions of $$$$$ in profits why do we need to give BIG oil MORE tax breaks?

WTF??????????

Why dont we start off easy and begin with "why can't you ever answer a straight question".

[Ttype83]

There is such a thing as a serious Liberal?????
oh wait you are expecting a liberal to answer a question that is put before them...Serious questions for serious liberals...holy crap I can't stop laughing...

[SGRIM]

A lib can only answer a questions like that with arguments about what the bad guy conservatives have done.....

[boostmaster]

Originally Posted by TT/A1233

These questions are only posed for one reason; to gain insight into the thought process of the liberal mind. It's not written to argue, debate or endorse ANY candidate. I won't respond, nor should anyone else to inflammatory posts. Just tell me why you feel the way you do to support the concept of Liberal ideals.

For those Conservatives in this forum please refrain from personally attacking anyone who responds in the positive. It only diminishes Conservatives.

- What gravitates you to the Democrat party?

- What is it about Liberalism that makes you vote for those who espouse such ideals?

- What supports Liberalism you can point to in the Declaration of Independence or United States Constitution that supports your cause?

This is a very sincere set of questions and am only trying to understand. I'll be VERY happy to respond in kind to a separate thread that poses these same questions to me on the Conservative side.

First off let me start by saying although I don't consider myself a liberal but by most of you guys standards I will be labled as such.

I don't consisder myself soley as neither Demorcrat or Republican but tend to lean more towards the Democratic party on most issues. But if you must have a sincere answer here it is.

1) Most conservatives tend to have the clouded belief that everyone is equal in this country and if you just work hard enough you can be whatever you strive to be. This is a clouded view of what America should be but not what America is . The fact of the matter is some people just can't and won't ever achieve the American dream no matter how hard they work. For some it may be socio-economic reasons beyond there control and for others maybe because they just don't have the capacity to achieve those goals. What do most conservatives believe you should do with them "I know let them sink or swim". Let me end this by saying that it does'nt mean welfare is the answer for all but for some the system needs to be reformed so we can put functional people back to work. How do you propose we fix it? If we snatch the rug out from under these people they will survive one way or another.... get my drift.

2) Conservatives stand for smaller government and to keep it out of our personal lives (wrong) more and more the Republican party is trying to legislate every personal morality law in existance. If we really have a right for to free will as long as it falls within the guidelines of our basic written laws why can't we just stick to the concept of writing laws that enhance peoples lives instead of making Roe vs Wade a platform for everything this country is about. Ex. in many Republican states if you own a motorcycle and you want to ride without a helmet it's your right to take the risk to kill yourself. The government stays out of your personal freedom to do what you wish. But at the same time thoses same legislators will tell a woman what to do in her own bedroom and with her own body. I say we all have to face judgement one day so let God be the judge of my sins. You guys just don't get it that legal abortion is for the protection of those woman that not matter what the circumstance or the alternative they will get an abortion at any risk keeping it legal minimizes that risk.

3) You can't deny the fact that many so called conservatives echo the voice of racial undertones in everything that your party stands for, most of them disgruntled white males that jumped ship from the Democratic party which why Republicans own the south. And for the party of Abraham Lincoln that should include all Americans only include the privelaged and the elite. Even on this board that is predominately conservative you do nothing to chastise or rebuke your brothers that support these ideals which means you support it (freedom of speech I guess) which you strongly support. So do I. I don't believe in political correctness but I do believe in speeking out against separadist propagander whether it be from the right or left.

1st Amendment freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom of the press, freedom of assembly,freedom of petition.

I'll agree that freedom of speech is under fire form far left liberals.

Will you agree that freedom of religion is under fire from conservatives. You guys want to legislate Christainity. I know that the basic principles we subcribe to are based on the basic Judeo/ Chritsian morals and ethics but the law strictly says you can't promote one religion over the other. With that being said that does'nt mean I agree with removing God from everything in government for the word God itself transpires beyond all religions. Even in this forum there are countless bashes on Muslims and Jews which reflect the true undertone of the conservatives on this board so it must be mainstream.

Freedom of the press only goes to show that everything you read or hear may not be true.

2nd amendment the right to bare arms ok I'm cool with that have all the guns you want, but why do you need an Ak-47, AR-15, grenades, bazooka's etc,etc, just to hunt with what are you hunting for or are you storing up arms for the next civil war.

I won't get into the others because these are the two most debated.

So with that being said you as a conservative can't be a proponent of equal rights for all, family values, less government, and equality when so many in your party echo the sentiment of the total opposite of what you proclaim to stand for and you do nothing to dispell this sentiment. As a proposed liberal that's why I like Huckleby his was one of the few conservatives that was above the bull*** and was'nt afraid to call it like it was. And you see what happened to him!!!!

[boostmaster]

Originally Posted by SGRIM

A lib can only answer a questions like that with arguments about what the bad guy conservatives have done.....

Usually when you take a pole it is a fraction of what the majority of people think. If you take poll on what you just wrote and apply it to this forum you would say that the bad guy is in the mainstream.

[86NYGN]

You seem to be sincere in posing this question so let me ask you this, What do you consider a "serious liberal"? If you read this "forum" you will see that anyone who doesn't agree with Bush's policies or has a different point of view on any subject is immediately labeled a "lefty,faggot,tin-foil,traitor,pu$$y,limp-wristed,etc", so if that is also your "idea" of what a "serious liberal" is then do you really expect to have an honest, open give and take "intelligent" discussion with what few members with differing views who even bother coming to this site let alone post in the "Hate Forum"? Go back and look at what has occured in this forum over the last 6-12 months and the pure "hatred" spewed by certain "members" towards others and the almost total lack of any "moderation" from those that are supposed to keep the "discussions" at least semi-civil. Whenever someone posts a dissenting view point to something that is posted by a supposed "conservative" they are immediately called,faggot,liar,liberal,etc. so why would you expect someone to attempt to give you a "serious" answer to the question you posed in starting this thread. If a point is made against something Bush or another "conservative" has done then the immediate retort from the "conservs" is BUT look at Carter or Clinton or Kennedy and what they did. I am sure that you will understand why you won't get any responses from any members here who consider themselves "liberal" if you read thru the "hate forum" and see the vileness of some here towards anyone who doesn't believe the absolute garbage that is posted by some here.
I don't consider myself "liberal nor conservative" so I can't give you an answer to your legitimate question but I can give you my "opinion" on why you will not get any serious responses to your sincere question.

[quickerthanmost]

Originally Posted by STAGE 2

Why dont we start off easy and begin with "why can't you ever answer a straight question".

I have ideals, you have a party. My questions answer yours. but you on the other hand have no answer except blind party loyalty.

What question have you answered? I told you my view of your Michelle obama thread. You have failed to answer SH!T

[TT/A1233]

Originally Posted by quickerthanmost

What is it about Corporate Socialism and trickle down economics that make an average COP like you kiss GOP a$$?

What is it about applying the "boot straps" theory to every american, even the truly needy? ( absolutely no social conscious)

What is it about( especially being a man) that you want Goverment to be involved with women's reproductive rights even when she is RAPED!? ( who are you to tell a woman what she can or can't do with her body? and meddle in your bedroom? especially when most of the perverts are republicans ( the do as I say not as I do approach)? ( I don't aprove of abortion

Why is VIAGRA covered by insurance and not Birth control for women?

Why is it OK for women to make less than men for the same JOB?

Why is a being lied into a war OK? even after the Fact when documents PROVE it?????????

Why is a made up story of adam and Eve ok to be taught as FACT vs. evolution?

Why is ithe middle class the enemy of the GOP? shipping jobs overseas and continuing tax breaks for those same companies?

With record Billions of $$$$$ in profits why do we need to give BIG oil MORE tax breaks?

WTF??????????

As usual, you go on the personal attack bandwagon because I posted my profession (which gives me unique perspective) and factually stated Obama would miserably fail an Employment Background Investigation. You also failed to answer any questions but instead twist things around. Answering questions with questions isn't an answer at all. Give it a try (as I already posted) and give serious answers and drop the attitude and I'll respond in kind with pointed and sincere answers from my perspective on the things you posted here.

Originally Posted by boostmaster

First control and for others maybe because they just don't have the capacity to achieve those goals. What do most conservatives believe you should do with them "I know let them sink or swim". Let me end this by saying that it does'nt mean welfare is the answer for all but for some the system needs to be reformed so we can put functional people back to work. How do you propose we fix it? If we snatch the rug out from under these people they will survive one way or another.... get my drift.

This is what I was seeking.... A SERIOUS, PHILOSOPHICAL DISCUSSION....I thank you Sir!

I don't think my belief that everyone IS equal isn't clouded whatsoever. Everyone IS equal but have different needs and abilities. The Founding Fathers felt this nation should be ruled by LAW, not man. It's also a fact not everyone can or will achieve the American dream...that's life. Some fail and some flourish but the opportunity is there, just look at Obama. I can't speak for all Conservatives but I do believe it's most certainly not the government's responsibility to provide those who don't achieve permanent sustenance. The Constitution and Declaration of Independence doesn't slant toward forced socialism where wealth is re-distributed, quite the contrary. The problem is FDR's "New Deal" has changed society to make those who don't achieve anything in life federal government will give to them. This only promotes reliance on a hand out instead of pride in working and earning something for yourself. Just look at what happened to victims (of all races) of Katrina. Most of them screamed for the federal government to help them instead of them helping themselves. This is what happens when we train folks not to rely on themselves and rely on the government for almost everything. The answer?...slowly wean them off the government's teat.

Originally Posted by boostmaster

2) Conservatives stand for smaller government and to keep it out of our personal lives (wrong) more and more the Republican party is trying to legislate every personal morality law in existance. If we really have a right for to free will as long as it falls within the guidelines of our basic written laws why can't we just stick to the concept of writing laws that enhance peoples lives instead of making Roe vs Wade a platform for everything this country is about. Ex. in many Republican states if you own a motorcycle and you want to ride without a helmet it's your right to take the risk to kill yourself. The government stays out of your personal freedom to do what you wish. But at the same time thoses same legislators will tell a woman what to do in her own bedroom and with her own body. I say we all have to face judgement one day so let God be the judge of my sins. You guys just don't get it that legal abortion is for the protection of those woman that not matter what the circumstance or the alternative they will get an abortion at any risk keeping it legal minimizes that risk.

Conservatives like me believe the federal government needs to stay out of the personal lives of everyone since that's the way it was intended. Our Founding Fathers FEARED an all powerful central government who sacrificed everything to rid themselves of a tyrant king. Now look what we have. A government that dictates everything either through law, administrative regulation or other mandates. This IS NOT what our system of government was supposed to have. Our Constitution gave the federal government something called ENUMERATED POWERS but over time they've assumed more and more power over everyones lives through numerous way, mostly by poor US Supreme Court decisions, but that's another discussion. Motorcycle helmet use, same sex marriage, abortion and many other issues should be left up to the states to decide since the federal constitution doesn't give Congress or President the power to dictate these issues. Remember, "ENUMERATED" (aka specific) powers?

Originally Posted by boostmaster

3) You can't deny the fact that many so called conservatives echo the voice of racial undertones in everything that your party stands for, most of them disgruntled white males that jumped ship from the Democratic party which why Republicans own the south. And for the party of Abraham Lincoln that should include all Americans only include the privelaged and the elite. Even on this board that is predominately conservative you do nothing to chastise or rebuke your brothers that support these ideals which means you support it (freedom of speech I guess) which you strongly support. So do I. I don't believe in political correctness but I do believe in speeking out against separadist propagander whether it be from the right or left. 1st Amendment freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom of the press, freedom of assembly,freedom of petition.

I'll agree that freedom of speech is under fire form far left liberals.

Will you agree that freedom of religion is under fire from conservatives. You guys want to legislate Christainity. I know that the basic principles we subcribe to are based on the basic Judeo/ Chritsian morals and ethics but the law strictly says you can't promote one religion over the other. With that being said that does'nt mean I agree with removing God from everything in government for the word God itself transpires beyond all religions. Even in this forum there are countless bashes on Muslims and Jews which reflect the true undertone of the conservatives on this board so it must be mainstream.

Freedom of the press only goes to show that everything you read or hear may not be true.

2nd amendment the right to bare arms ok I'm cool with that have all the guns you want, but why do you need an Ak-47, AR-15, grenades, bazooka's etc,etc, just to hunt with what are you hunting for or are you storing up arms for the next civil war.

I won't get into the others because these are the two most debated.

So with that being said you as a conservative can't be a proponent of equal rights for all, family values, less government, and equality when so many in your party echo the sentiment of the total opposite of what you proclaim to stand for and you do nothing to dispell this sentiment. As a proposed liberal that's why I like Huckleby his was one of the few conservatives that was above the bull*** and was'nt afraid to call it like it was. And you see what happened to him!!!!

First and foremost I'm NOT a Republican but am a conservative. However, I see NO organized effort with regard to "racial overtones". While both parties have racial issues and you brought it up can you point to any wide-spread or organized effort on behalf of Republicans to fester "racial overtones"?? I vote for both major parties every election depending on the office. I simply can't speak for what other people do and for the record since I've been active in here again HAVE rebuked "republicans" but not on the board. I've done it via PM because I believe poor behaviour reflects on all of us. Name calling, denigrating people with opposite opinions and acting like a jerk does no service to anyone.

I'm sure how to take your comment that the freedom of religion is being attacked by conservative. What I object to is the attack on religion by organizations like the ACLU. The quote "Separation of Church and State" is nowhere to be found in our Constitution. If you read the Federalist Papers by Alexander Hamilton and research the amendment it was only supposed to prevent a STATE RELIGION as they had in England in the 1700s. So forcing the removal of nativity scenes in town squares, CHRISTMAS lights on government buildings and so on is a total bastardization of our Bill of Rights. I resent the twisting and changing what our Founders intended.

There's a lot of history behind the writing of the 2nd Amendment. Clearly, there must be limits on this right just as there are on other rights. Bazookas and grenades have no place in a civilized society however an AK-47 is nothing more than a mean looking rifle. Many people overlook the fact one major reason we have the 2nd Amendment was to protect ourselves from a rogue government. Our Founding Fathers were VERY fearful of an all-powerful government and built in safety features with words and this amendment to help protect themselves from another oppressive government.
If I may, I'd direct your attention to the following excerpt:

• That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness.

I enjoy discussions of this nature, let's hope it continues.

[PowerSics]

Originally Posted by boostmaster

1) Most conservatives tend to have the clouded belief that everyone is equal in this country and if you just work hard enough you can be whatever you strive to be. This is a clouded view of what America should be but not what America is . The fact of the matter is some people just can't and won't ever achieve the American dream no matter how hard they work. For some it may be socio-economic reasons beyond there control and for others maybe because they just don't have the capacity to achieve those goals. What do most conservatives believe you should do with them "I know let them sink or swim". Let me end this by saying that it does'nt mean welfare is the answer for all but for some the system needs to be reformed so we can put functional people back to work. How do you propose we fix it? If we snatch the rug out from under these people they will survive one way or another.... get my drift.
!

Yeah, we get your drift. You're actually going to sit there and whine and play the victim after white America has spent some $7 Trillion on hundreds of failed projects since the War on Poverty was initiated during the Johnson Administration during the 1960s. How do you ever expect these minorities to get off the dole if they continue to treat them like helpless children? After all this……Medicaid, food stamps, Section 8 housing, forced busing, Affirmative Action, race norming, integration, out-reach programs, No African Left Behind, EEOC, anti-Jim Crow laws, anti-miscegenation laws, sensitivity training, owering academic standards, Magnet schools , War on Poverty, Head Start, free breakfast, free lunch, free day care free after-day care, Earned Income tax credits, sub-prime mortgages, subsidized phone service, subsidized electric service, subsidized home heating fuel, free health care at any emergency clinic, Brown-vs-Board of Education, free legal clinics, Peace Corp, Rainbow Coalition Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, and lately, Rev. Wright. But still .......

….the life of the average African American is worse than it was in 1950.

And, what was the color of the people who enacted these programs? You act like we just left you out there to fend for yourselves.

Poor things.

[TT/A1233]

Originally Posted by boostmaster

1) Most conservatives tend to have the clouded belief that everyone is equal in this country and if you just work hard enough you can be whatever you strive to be. This is a clouded view of what America should be but not what America is . The fact of the matter is some people just can't and won't ever achieve the American dream no matter how hard they work. For some it may be socio-economic reasons beyond there control and for others maybe because they just don't have the capacity to achieve those goals. What do most conservatives believe you should do with them "I know let them sink or swim". Let me end this by saying that it does'nt mean welfare is the answer for all but for some the system needs to be reformed so we can put functional people back to work. How do you propose we fix it? If we snatch the rug out from under these people they will survive one way or another.... get my drift.

Let me ask, if someone fails to attend school and take advantage of what EVERY ONE of our people is offered IS IT MY JOB AS A RESPONSIBLE TAXPAYER TO PROVIDE FOR THEM SINCE THEY MAKE CHOICES, AND CAN'T or DON'T PROVIDE FOR THEMSELVES??

Question 2; If you feel I should pay for their unproductive/irresponsible lifestyle how long should I have to pay for it?

Wasn't the entire concept of America designed to provide a place where anyone and everyone can choose their own lot in life and have religious freedom to prosper??

Where do you find the concept of "socialism" in ANY of our founding documents? Please point to it.

Why is it OK for Obama to want to confiscate 40% of my capital gains? Isn't that MY money?

Why is it OK to take money from people who work their azzes off, make responsible/sound life decisions, earn a living and give it to others who refuse to? Or to give my $ to people who CHOOSE to have children they know they can't support?

[stack1]

Bush had control, why didn't he reform welfare or do something? Do you think social programs are the reason our taxes are so high? It's only a fraction of the budget. I agree that we should remove incentives for people not to work. The pork is a bigger problem.