Dont Blame the oil companies...

[BlackoutDrunk]

Originally Posted by BlownZ

Whether you think its fair or not, our entire economic system is built around a free market.

If Exxon came on hard times and was losing money, would you be willing to send them a check to subsidize the loss?

I don't like paying high gas prices any more than anyone but facts are facts and either you are in favor of a free market economy or you aren't.

You can't pick and choose which companies should be allowed to make a profit and which companies shouldn't be allowed. We're paying the price for the government we've elected all these years.

We've been in bed with the Middle East and bowing to the environmentalist whackos that have lobbied for us not to be able to drill and develop our own oil supply.

We've let lobbyists kill any serious chances at alternative energy sources for the last 30 years.

If you want a culprit, look in the mirror, look around you. It's US. We keep letting our government let us down with no repercussions. We're more worried about who slept with who or who said what in church than we are about holding them accountable for their actions.

Every thread on here about Obama and his reverend or Hillary and Monica or McCain and his wife's taxes are a big pile of steaming dung that DOESN'T MATTER. It's STUPID.

What does matter is that we let lobbyists run this country, we let money rule the day, we let politicians have an absolute free ride and probably literally get away with murder.

We get what we deserve.

Now let's talk about whether Obama is a Muslim some more. That's super important.

I agree with most of what you say except the subsidize part...The government subsidizes a lot of companies with tax breaks and low rate loans. Look what they did for the airlines...

[BlownZ]

Can you discuss the details of these so called subsidies? Without using Google, tell us everything you know about them.

I am thinking it won't take long.

[whitehot84]

So let me see if I understand these economics.
I (big oil) am making, say, 8% or about 5 billion a year some time ago. Now crude goes up and my profit margin stays at 8%. My refining costs only go up marginally due to cost of living escalation. So my profits are essentially tied to the cost of crude. !!!!!
We are strapped as far as refineries are concerned and can only produce a certain amount of fuel. The same amount we produced when gas was $2.00 a gallon.
Now diesel fuel, which is a byproduct of gasoline production, is higher than gas. Where is the rational here. Is this in any way tied to the price of crude.
If in fact this is the case, wouldn't it be feasible for me to put some "speculators" on the payroll to drive the price of crude into never before highs. I have enough money to protect them in the case of a downturn.
Just wondering.

[a trail rider]

If things go remotely well in the plant world, we'll have bio-diesel in high amounts fairly soon. There are far better choices than soy beans or corn, and we're finally using some... AWESOME!

We have no urgent need to stop using fossil fuels for now, and we couldn't if we wanted to, unless we stop America almost completely. But if we use more and more plantlife, we can use less crude and it could be a major help, if we had more diesel powered vehicles too.

Anyway, "big oil" isn't making record profit margins, just record profit. Only idiots think we can simply ween ourselves off oil quickly.

We have more oil in America than ALL middle-eastern countries... Combined... All we need now is for our government to allow oil companies to do the job...

[BlackoutDrunk]

Originally Posted by BlownZ

Can you discuss the details of these so called subsidies? Without using Google, tell us everything you know about them.

I am thinking it won't take long.

No need to get harsh. What would be wrong with using google? Would I be dumb to use google or would I be dumb for not researching a topic I am fuzzy or maybe misinformed about? A smart man knows that he has much to learn. I'm not saying I'm smart. I'm merely not ignorant. Since by your statement you obviously don't need google for anything or don't need to research ANYTHING, why don't you enlighten me for I am a retard who knows nothing and apparently shouldn't use research material to form an opinion.

was that short enough for you Stephen Hawking?

[plowboy72]

Originally Posted by BlownZ

Whether you think its fair or not, our entire economic system is built around a free market.

If Exxon came on hard times and was losing money, would you be willing to send them a check to subsidize the loss?

I don't like paying high gas prices any more than anyone but facts are facts and either you are in favor of a free market economy or you aren't.

You can't pick and choose which companies should be allowed to make a profit and which companies shouldn't be allowed. We're paying the price for the government we've elected all these years.

We've been in bed with the Middle East and bowing to the environmentalist whackos that have lobbied for us not to be able to drill and develop our own oil supply.

We've let lobbyists kill any serious chances at alternative energy sources for the last 30 years.

If you want a culprit, look in the mirror, look around you. It's US. We keep letting our government let us down with no repercussions. We're more worried about who slept with who or who said what in church than we are about holding them accountable for their actions.

Every thread on here about Obama and his reverend or Hillary and Monica or McCain and his wife's taxes are a big pile of steaming dung that DOESN'T MATTER. It's STUPID.

What does matter is that we let lobbyists run this country, we let money rule the day, we let politicians have an absolute free ride and probably literally get away with murder.

We get what we deserve.

Now let's talk about whether Obama is a Muslim some more. That's super important.

This sir is one very well said posts in any thread in quite some time!! You are saying the right thing here! It was never my point to say I wasn't for a free market. We (America) has gotten fat rich and lazy! Fat and rich I can live with lazy however I can't. Lobbyists are exactly the problem. Like when I said if oil people help you get elected, how do you pay them back. This is true everywhere in Washington. And certainly not limited to this admin. And certainly not limited to only oil people. When will we wake up and start voting for the people that want to do what's right for our country and not just for a party or industry? This was a major concern of mine when so many Dem. got voted into congress. It was change just for change, not because people thought they would be better for the job. This was also true about the last two Pres. elections. We voted a guy in because we wanted to have a guy in the oval office we wanted to have a beer with for god sake! Stupid! This starts with thinking for yourself, make the best decision with what information you have even if its a different party. Who cares about the stupid parties, get rid of the lobbyists and see how quickly we can change to old way of doing things because it just ain't working.

[Squeelr]

Originally Posted by BlownZ

Goth...why do you do this to yourself?

The cost of crude oil is up so the raw materials cost has actually doubled....despite what your Mr. Wizard pocket protector tells you.

Factories run on oil and fuel....another price increase.

Fuel needs to be transported to stations....on trucks....that use gas....which is way up.....another price increase.

If chicken is up because of fuel, then everything is up because of fuel, including fuel.

Please....seriously....count to 10 before you type any posts again.

I guess you don't understand after costs profits, which is what Goth is speaking of.

The "costs" related to the oil companies refining crude has stay relatively the same. Which is why their "profits" have soared through the roof. Or shall I find you some information on the net to show you how "after costs profits" are determined?

2nd, the futures markets are driving the price of crude per barrel. It's not a supply vs. demand thing the Republicans are trying to sell us. If you removed Wall St. from the whole picture, we'd see the real cost of what a barrel of crude costs us.

In its monthly market report, the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries said oil's recent volatility "reconfirms the view that current price levels do not reflect supply and demand realities."
Oil closes below $135 after OPEC questions prices - NewsFlash - mlive.com

What really tees me off about the Republicans in congress currently is, they say they need to drill more here in the U.S. Well, if that were the case, then why is most if not all of our domestic production going to China!?

It's all bull.

[Squeelr]

Originally Posted by V8Assassin

I've got an even better idea, why not just form a national oil company like Bahrain Petroleum Company, National Iranian Oil Refining & Distribution Company, or Kuwait Oil Company. Then the goverment could run the whole operation and Pelosi could decide which class of people deserve which energy resources and "redistribute them accordingly".

Yeah, a state run energy company to compliment the new Socialist way of life. Maybe her best bud Obama will send some much needed subsidies to our "friends" like Palestine, for that matter he could just have his new sit down buddy President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad to help him figure out how to run that big ole complicated energy company.

Well, in actuality we do have a state run oil company. Ever heard or seen when Cheney had those closed door meetings at the beginning of their tenure? Yup. Never before in history was the public kept out of knowing what an administrations energy polices were going to be. And now we know. Screw the little guy and the middle class, take HUGE tax incentives for basically doing nothing, and keep making record profits when the country is at war.

We're at war? Right? Aren't we? A time when a country is supposed to all pull together? No price gouging and stuff like that? Man, where ol' Harry Truman and his old Dodge when you need him.

I bet you were against the Anti-Trust laws that were fought for 100 years ago as well.

Do you see any similarities with todays uber corps and violations of anti-trust laws?

[UNGN]

Originally Posted by Squeelr

What really tees me off about the Republicans in congress currently is, they say they need to drill more here in the U.S. Well, if that were the case, then why is most if not all of our domestic production going to China!?

Because it isn't.

Do Libs just make upfacts? Is that how to become a Lib?

If you really think that "most if not all of our domestic production going to China" you are complete dumbass and not worth even arguing with, so please go away. You have nothing to add.

At least 30% of the oil we use in the US is from domestic sources. If "most if not all" were going to China, it would mean the US could be energy independent, if only we weren't giving all our oil to the Chinese

If ANY oil is going to China its because our current emission laws don't allow us to refine it because the sulfur content is too high. The Chinese have never been too concerned about emission laws.

Even your argument is stupid. If the Chinese will pay $140/bbl nobody in the US will, ALL of the oil will go to China until they are swimming in it and either 1) they don't want to pay $140/bbl and the price goes down or 2) Somebody else wants to pay $140/bbl for it and then it might go there instead of china and the price holds or goes up.

If the "Republicans" got the Democrats in Congress to say "No more US Oil shipments to China" the Price in the US would go UP and the supply in the US would go down because an artificial limit would be placed on the supply.

duh.

[Turbo RX-6]

Originally Posted by Squeelr

then why is most if not all of our domestic production going to China!?

It's all bull.

You got the last part right, about your answer. That must have been painful, pulling that out of your ass and all.

We produce about 10 million barrels a day domestically, we export a little over a 1 million barrels a day, we do less than 2 million of crude, gas, diesel, jet fuel and other refined products a day, combined, and China's not even in the top 15.

Energy Information Administration
Official Energy Statistics From The U.S. Goverment

Yes, despite its role as the world’s largest importer of oil and refined products, the U.S. also exports fossil fuels. As of March, the latest data available, U.S. oil refiners were exporting more than 1.8 million barrels a day of crude oil, gasoline, diesel, jet fuel and other refined products.

Total Crude Oil and Products Exports by Destination

In fact, as of March 2008, we were exporting a grand total of 25 thousand barrels of crude a day to China, thats out of 10 million, so yes, your right, it's all a big Republican cover up. And wake up, it's not just the Republicans who want us to drill for more oil, it's about 80% of the citizens who want to drill also, including the residents of Alaska who have been begging for congress to allow drilling for years now.

Hell we send 44 thousand barrels to the Bahamas a day, thats almost twice what we send to China.

[ekafrawy]

Originally Posted by Gothmog

just contact the RNC and ask for the talking points

this is all day everday on Hannity, Oreilly Rush, and Fauxnews

Don't forget that the cost of fuel has affected the cost to ship crude oil half way around the planet so that it can be refined here.

Oil companies over head has increased with the cost of fuel. Plus the cost of diesel to transport gasoline across the US has skyrocketed. So their costs are going up just like everyone elses.

But yes they are still very profitable. Which doesn't bother me one bit, and I pay over $5.00/gal for diesel. Its not the oil companies fault the price of oil is up, but if they bennefit from that, then good for another American company.

[whitehot84]

A revelation!!!!! It seems that we send most of it to Mexico. Could it be that they are paying with MEXICANS....???????

[Squeelr]

I stand corrected. Something I heard a Democrat say on the house floor in the energy debate. I should have fact checked it.

But here an interesting story I found while fact checking your information.

May 29, 2008, 12:00 pm
Those Amazing Shrinking Oil Exports
Posted by Mark Gongloff

As crude oil slumps despite an Energy Department report of surprisingly weak inventory growth, it’s worth revisiting the must-read story today from Neil King about a key factor that had been driving oil prices into the toposphere: the fact that the world’s biggest petroleum exporters are increasingly keeping the stuff at home.

As the story notes, last year was the first time that the majority of the world’s top 15 net exporters experienced shrinking exports. Total net exports from this group, which provides about 45% of the world’s supply, fell by nearly a million barrels per day in 2007.

But this isn’t a trend that just started last year. Total net exports from the world’s top 15 exporters first turned negative in 2006, reinforcing the sense of a systemic paradigm shift.

And net exports from major producers Mexico, Norway and Venezuela have fallen in every year since 2005, resulting in a total export loss of about 1.3 million barrels per day from those three countries alone. Net exports from Saudi Arabia, the world’s biggest oil producer, have dropped by a total of nearly 1.2 million barrels since 2006.

The only countries enjoying gains in net exports every year since 2005 are Algeria, Angola, Kazakhstan, Libya and Russia. They’re substantial producers, but not enough to stop the bleeding.

This is another hint that oil’s rise has less to do with easy Fed policy or nefarious speculators than some in the market think. And it means oil’s rise could be long-lasting.

MarketBeat : Those Amazing Shrinking Oil Exports

[UNGN]

Originally Posted by Squeelr

I stand corrected. Something I heard a Democrat say on the house floor in the energy debate. I should have fact checked it.

But here an interesting story I found while fact checking your information.


MarketBeat : Those Amazing Shrinking Oil Exports

...

Originally Posted by UNGN

duh.

[Gothmog]

Originally Posted by ekafrawy

But yes they are still very profitable. Which doesn't bother me one bit, and I pay over $5.00/gal for diesel. .

thats an understandment, Exxon just made the biggest profit in the history of the world. While it may not be their fault that oil has skyrocketed, I'm sick of them crying poverty, and every rep. agreeing with them

[BlownZ]

Originally Posted by BlackoutDrunk

No need to get harsh. What would be wrong with using google? Would I be dumb to use google or would I be dumb for not researching a topic I am fuzzy or maybe misinformed about? A smart man knows that he has much to learn. I'm not saying I'm smart. I'm merely not ignorant. Since by your statement you obviously don't need google for anything or don't need to research ANYTHING, why don't you enlighten me for I am a retard who knows nothing and apparently shouldn't use research material to form an opinion.

was that short enough for you Stephen Hawking?

No my point is people like you RAIL on about crap they don't even KNOW ABOUT! If you are so upset about these oil subsidies then I think you should know about what you are quoting.

Message boards are making America stupider everday because some nitwit posts something that he doesn't even know anything about, but because it's on the internet it must be true, then 100 other nitwits turn around and post the same thing.

Research is great.....that IS my point......you should try it before you cite something you don't know anything about.

That's your free lesson how to NOT be a nitwit anymore.

[BlownZ]

Originally Posted by Squeelr

I guess you don't understand after costs profits, which is what Goth is speaking of.

I guess you don't understand basic math. Let me help you.

The "costs" related to the oil companies refining crude has stay relatively the same. Which is why their "profits" have soared through the roof. Or shall I find you some information on the net to show you how "after costs profits" are determined?

The costs of ANY company in ANY industry have SKYROCKETED the last 5 years. I don't need any information to determine profits....I manage P&Ls everday. What I would like you to do is try something completely different....find me the facts that tell us that the oil companies "costs" have stayed the same over the last 5 years. I am sure since you have such a deep understanding of this issue then it will be easy.

2nd, the futures markets are driving the price of crude per barrel. It's not a supply vs. demand thing the Republicans are trying to sell us. If you removed Wall St. from the whole picture, we'd see the real cost of what a barrel of crude costs us.

It matters diddly what is to blame for the price of a barrel of oil. We have a futures market, it isn't the oil companies fault, so the price of a barrel of oil has doubled. Which that ALONE materially impacts the operating costs of the oil companies.

In its monthly market report, the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries said oil's recent volatility "reconfirms the view that current price levels do not reflect supply and demand realities."
Oil closes below $135 after OPEC questions prices - NewsFlash - mlive.com

You can interpret that quote in many ways. OPEC is saying they have plenty of oil to last a long time, they just won't release any. A few days after your quote the Saudi King agreed to increase production 2 million barrels a day to stabilize prices. He surely wouldn't have done that if he doesn't think it will impact the price.

Is this the best you have?

What really tees me off about the Republicans in congress currently is, they say they need to drill more here in the U.S. Well, if that were the case, then why is most if not all of our domestic production going to China!?

It's all bull.

You are right about one thing...there is a lot of bull.

PS..."after costs profits" is a term that doesn't even exist in the financial world. See my post above and take that advice too. Quit trying to talk about crap you KNOW NOTHING ABOUT. It will make you seem much smarter.

If that was your attempt to come off like you know something......you missed.

[BlackoutDrunk]

Originally Posted by BlownZ

No my point is people like you RAIL on about crap they don't even KNOW ABOUT! If you are so upset about these oil subsidies then I think you should know about what you are quoting.

Message boards are making America stupider everday because some nitwit posts something that he doesn't even know anything about, but because it's on the internet it must be true, then 100 other nitwits turn around and post the same thing.

Research is great.....that IS my point......you should try it before you cite something you don't know anything about.

That's your free lesson how to NOT be a nitwit anymore.

Tact, witt and charm!!! You're a triple threat.

Do you not feel that tax breaks and low rate loans are a type of subsidy? Do you feel it's fair that our government is giving large tax breaks to oil companies and letting the working man of this country (truckers, the middle class, cab drivers, etc etc.) work harder for less money?

Our government subsidized airlines during their time of great need and thats fine because the airline industry as a whole was in dire need. They are also giving huge tax breaks to oil companies which is a type of subsidy. If the oil companies are making huge profits why should they reap the benefits of our governments help while they are sticking it to us? How are they sticking it to us you might ask. There have been instances of oil companies buying refineries to shut them down thus lowering the supply and raising the demand. I had a post that some links on it that showed evidence of that type behavior.

Also I never "railed on" I said I agreed with most of what you said except subsidies. The reason I don't agree on the subsidies part is that a truly free market wouldn't get help from a government. However companies are more than happy to take said help when it is offered so in my eyes they should have to answer or adjust their methods if the government comes knocking. This is America last time I checked and in essence WE are the government.

Here's a free lesson for you. People respond better to constructive criticism and thoughtful debate not chest pounding and an elitist attitude. When for no good reason you call someone a "nit wit" and act like they are dumb you just look like a jerk off and no one respects the point you are trying to make whether you are right or wrong. If you truly care about your stance and want to change peoples minds you would treat them with at least a little respect.

[Gothmog]

Originally Posted by Squeelr

Well, in actuality we do have a state run oil company. Ever heard or seen when Cheney had those closed door meetings at the beginning of their tenure? Yup. ?

You mean those meetings where they were rumored to have been dividing up Iraqs oil fields (before 9/11) and now AS WE SPEAK, these companies are on the verge of receiviing NO BID contracts for Iraqis oil fields..http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/19/wo...ss&oref=slogin

The republicans will call you a conspiracy theorist for that


sometimes people just want to bury their heads in the sand and not see the truth

[IEATV8S]

Originally Posted by Gothmog

You mean those meetings where they were rumored to have been dividing up Iraqs oil fields (before 9/11) and now AS WE SPEAK, these companies are on the verge of receiviing NO BID contracts for Iraqis oil fields..http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/19/wo...ss&oref=slogin

The republicans will call you a conspiracy theorist for that


sometimes people just want to bury their heads in the sand and not see the truth

Perhaps you should listen to the NEWS!!!!!

The NO BID contracts were given for 2 YEARS ONLY and given to American companies by the iraq Gov't because the American Co. have been working for the Iraq gov't for the last 2 years with NO PAYMENTS TO THE COMPANIES FOR THEIR WORK!!

The deals for the four companies will be service contracts, in which they are paid for their work rather than offered a license for Iraq's oil deposits.

Leave it to the LEFTARDS to get anything correct!

[Turbo RX-6]

Originally Posted by IEATV8S

Leave it to the LEFTARDS to get anything correct!

Don't say anything, they have their moments, except maybe Goth.

[IEATV8S]

Originally Posted by Turbo RX-6

Don't lump them all in there, they have their moments, except maybe Goth.

Perhaps we should call them regressives (a play on their current mantra of being progressive)? They want us back to the Stalinist times!

[BlownZ]

Originally Posted by BlackoutDrunk

Tact, witt and charm!!! You're a triple threat.

Do you not feel that tax breaks and low rate loans are a type of subsidy? Do you feel it's fair that our government is giving large tax breaks to oil companies and letting the working man of this country (truckers, the middle class, cab drivers, etc etc.) work harder for less money?

Here you go again. WHY do they give the tax breaks or loans that you say they give but know nothing about?

Our government subsidized airlines during their time of great need and thats fine because the airline industry as a whole was in dire need. They are also giving huge tax breaks to oil companies which is a type of subsidy. If the oil companies are making huge profits why should they reap the benefits of our governments help while they are sticking it to us? How are they sticking it to us you might ask. There have been instances of oil companies buying refineries to shut them down thus lowering the supply and raising the demand. I had a post that some links on it that showed evidence of that type behavior.

And still you do it. The airlines and many industries USED to be regulated. They aren't now.

Do you have any facts about oil companies buying refineries to shut them down or did you read it somewhere and just decided to parrot it...which is my whole point.

I can see you are taking none of my advice and want to continue to be like every other nitwit that argues based on emotion rather than on actual facts. I don't like paying higher prices for gas either.....count me in, but facts are facts.

Also I never "railed on" I said I agreed with most of what you said except subsidies. The reason I don't agree on the subsidies part is that a truly free market wouldn't get help from a government. However companies are more than happy to take said help when it is offered so in my eyes they should have to answer or adjust their methods if the government comes knocking. This is America last time I checked and in essence WE are the government.

You don't even know what the subsidies are for or if they even exist. You don't know anything about the alleged tax breaks that may or may not exist but yet you will "rail on" about things you admittedly don't know anything about.

Do you not see the irony just dripping from your every reply??

I made the assertion that you don't know what you are talking about, you admitted that you didn't and that I was right...and then keep right on yammering on about tax breaks and subsidies that you just said you know nothing about.

Here's a free lesson for you. People respond better to constructive criticism and thoughtful debate not chest pounding and an elitist attitude. When for no good reason you call someone a "nit wit" and act like they are dumb you just look like a jerk off and no one respects the point you are trying to make whether you are right or wrong. If you truly care about your stance and want to change peoples minds you would treat them with at least a little respect.

I could care less whether you change your mind. The world needs nitwits, it makes the rest of us look smarter.

I wouldn't ever mock someone who truly didn't understand something or even wanted to understand, but someone who admits they don't and then goes on the attack with their lack of knowledge is definitely gittin it.

Let me return the free lesson....smarten up.

[Turbo RX-6]

Originally Posted by BlownZ

I could care less whether you change your mind. The world needs nitwits, it makes the rest of us look smarter.

Now thats funny, I don't care who your are thats some funny stuff there Ill tell ya.

[BlackoutDrunk]

Originally Posted by BlownZ

Here you go again. WHY do they give the tax breaks or loans that you say they give but know nothing about?



And still you do it. The airlines and many industries USED to be regulated. They aren't now.

Do you have any facts about oil companies buying refineries to shut them down or did you read it somewhere and just decided to parrot it...which is my whole point.

I can see you are taking none of my advice and want to continue to be like every other nitwit that argues based on emotion rather than on actual facts. I don't like paying higher prices for gas either.....count me in, but facts are facts.



You don't even know what the subsidies are for or if they even exist. You don't know anything about the alleged tax breaks that may or may not exist but yet you will "rail on" about things you admittedly don't know anything about.

Do you not see the irony just dripping from your every reply??

I made the assertion that you don't know what you are talking about, you admitted that you didn't and that I was right...and then keep right on yammering on about tax breaks and subsidies that you just said you know nothing about.



I could care less whether you change your mind. The world needs nitwits, it makes the rest of us look smarter.

I wouldn't ever mock someone who truly didn't understand something or even wanted to understand, but someone who admits they don't and then goes on the attack with their lack of knowledge is definitely gittin it.

Let me return the free lesson....smarten up.

Just keep wandering in the dark thinking you know all. Don't question anything for you obviously know all and don't need to provide data to prove your points either. Your word must be good enough. I have yet to see any data points you have provided to prove me wrong. At least I put up a few links to give you something to ponder.

I don't give a crap if you think I'm a nitwit because it's people like you who find out who the real nitwits are at the worst possible time. You must of accomplished all there is in life. Where is your autobiography? I want to read up on how to acquire all knowledge about everything.

You don't want to debate you just want to degrade people and be harsh. You don't know me or anything about me and from the little I know about you I'm glad we'll never meet because your personality shines through. You're the type of guy who thinks the person who screams the loudest wins the argument. Prove me wrong.

Apparently the world needs jerk-offs too.

[BlackoutDrunk]

Originally Posted by BlownZ

Here you go again. WHY do they give the tax breaks or loans that you say they give but know nothing about?



And still you do it. The airlines and many industries USED to be regulated. They aren't now.

Do you have any facts about oil companies buying refineries to shut them down or did you read it somewhere and just decided to parrot it...which is my whole point.

I can see you are taking none of my advice and want to continue to be like every other nitwit that argues based on emotion rather than on actual facts. I don't like paying higher prices for gas either.....count me in, but facts are facts.



You don't even know what the subsidies are for or if they even exist. You don't know anything about the alleged tax breaks that may or may not exist but yet you will "rail on" about things you admittedly don't know anything about.

Do you not see the irony just dripping from your every reply??

I made the assertion that you don't know what you are talking about, you admitted that you didn't and that I was right...and then keep right on yammering on about tax breaks and subsidies that you just said you know nothing about.



I could care less whether you change your mind. The world needs nitwits, it makes the rest of us look smarter.

I wouldn't ever mock someone who truly didn't understand something or even wanted to understand, but someone who admits they don't and then goes on the attack with their lack of knowledge is definitely gittin it.

Let me return the free lesson....smarten up.

Just keep wandering in the dark thinking you know all. Don't question anything for you obviously know all and don't need to provide data to prove your points either. Your word must be law. I have yet to see any data points you have provided to prove me wrong. At least I put up a few links to give you something to ponder.

I don't give a crap if you think I'm a nitwit because it's people like you who find out who the real nitwits are at the worst possible time. You probably voted for our nitwit president.

You don't want to debate you just want to degrade people and be harsh. You don't know me or anything about me and from the little I know about you I'm glad we'll never meet because your personality shines through. You're the type of guy who thinks the person who screams the loudest wins the argument. Prove me wrong.

Apparently the world needs jerk-offs too.

[BlownZ]

Originally Posted by BlackoutDrunk

Just keep wandering in the dark thinking you know all. Don't question anything for you obviously know all and don't need to provide data to prove your points either. Your word must be good enough. I have yet to see any data points you have provided to prove me wrong. At least I put up a few links to give you something to ponder.

This will be my last post.....my whole point is DONT WANDER around in the dark. If you're going to spew crap then have some facts to back it up. I don't need to provide any data to prove my point because I haven't made any off the wall allegations.

How many ways can you spell Duh.

I don't give a crap if you think I'm a nitwit because it's people like you who find out who the real nitwits are at the worst possible time. You must of accomplished all there is in life. Where is your autobiography? I want to read up on how to acquire all knowledge about everything.

You can be as big of a drama queen as you want but the simple fact is, you made a bunch of baseless allegations, you admitted you didn't know what you were talking about and yet you CONTINUED to try and defend your points. Even after ADMITTING you didn't know what you were talking about.

I don't claim to know everything and when I don't know I just won't comment. It's an easy thing to do.

You don't want to debate you just want to degrade people and be harsh. You don't know me or anything about me and from the little I know about you I'm glad we'll never meet because your personality shines through. You're the type of guy who thinks the person who screams the loudest wins the argument. Prove me wrong.

Yeah....scream. That's me. You must be new here.

Apparently the world needs jerk-offs too.

Well Duh...that's why we keep Blob around.

[BlackoutDrunk]

Originally Posted by BlownZ

This will be my last post.....my whole point is DONT WANDER around in the dark. If you're going to spew crap then have some facts to back it up. I don't need to provide any data to prove my point because I haven't made any off the wall allegations.

How many ways can you spell Duh.



You can be as big of a drama queen as you want but the simple fact is, you made a bunch of baseless allegations, you admitted you didn't know what you were talking about and yet you CONTINUED to try and defend your points. Even after ADMITTING you didn't know what you were talking about.

I don't claim to know everything and when I don't know I just won't comment. It's an easy thing to do.



Yeah....scream. That's me. You must be new here.




Well Duh...that's why we keep Blob around.

You don't have to walk away. If you like I can show you some data to back up my "baseless allegations" but my guess is that you won't read it. If you like you can start with one of my baseless allegations and I will provide you data points to ponder. You can call me a drama queen for expecting someone to act like courteous, well adjusted human being but if you don't feel you have to then that's your right. I never admitted I didn't know anything about the points I was trying to make why don't you go back, read and comprehend.

I welcome a point, counter-point discussion as I want to learn and the current gas prices interest me. So step up, refrain from using insults, show everyone you're not just a know-it-all chest pounder who can easy tell people they are wrong without offering a reason and let's talk. I am ready to back up my stance and I am open to being proved wrong. If I feel I am wrong I can and will admit it, it wouldn't be the first and certainly won't be the last.

I might be considered new here (I joined last year) but I'm not new to this planet. I know what's right and wrong.

[BlownZ]

Ok I'll bite.....Sure Chuck....show us your data.

[BlackoutDrunk]

ah ha I knew I would getcha to bite...

Where do we start? What point should we start at and what do you consider reputable news/data sources? I really am sincere when I say I want to give you something to think about. I know I have no chance in hell in changing your stance but this will be good times.

Sometimes arguing is fun. Come on smile I can tell you like a good debate.

[The Blob]

Originally Posted by BlownZ

Well Duh...that's why we keep Blob around.

A-hole!


(Actually... good one!)

[BlackoutDrunk]

Let me just say this I have been doing a lot of reading and have found only one thing to be absolutely true and that is you can find as much info as you like leaning one way or the other. I tend to lean on the side that feels we are getting screwed so here are some links to articles I have found. I don't agree with everything in these articles, for example I don't agree that windfall taxes levied against oil companies are the answer. I think in the long run the money will come out of our pockets. I believe competition creates innovation and lower prices. I don't think flex fuels are the answer but a piece of the puzzle.

Like I said I know I won't change your mind but I would hope to give you something to think about. The energy situation we are in is nobodies fault but our own, we have been short sighted and greedy. We have not pushed for technological advances and competition until we were being hit in the pocket book. We have allowed lobbyists and big business to rule us rather than serve us.

...and yes I have read all of these articles.

http://www.senate.gov/~gov_affairs/0...t/sectioni.pdf

Public Citizen | Energy Program | Energy Program - U.S. Senate Testimony on Gasoline Prices

Arizona Attorney General Terry Goddard

Attorney General: Testimony Of Attorney General Richard Blumenthal Before The Senate Committee On Govermental Affairs

http://hsgac.senate.gov/public/_files/052008Masters.pdf

testimony

TESTIMONY

Nieman Watchdog > Ask This > How the refiners are profiting from your pain

http://www.ftc.gov/os/testimony/0510...2006Senate.pdf

http://www.citizen.org/documents/oilmergers.pdf

Democrats.com Archive: oil industry

http://www.tradewatch.org/documents/House08.pdf

http://judiciary.senate.gov/testimon...43&wit_id=4957

http://www.ftc.gov/reports/gasprices...spricesrpt.pdf

Friends of Senator Carl Levin · Senate Floor Statement on Oil and Gasoline Prices

AP Analysis: Firms Crimping Oil Supplies

US oil stocks evaporate to 27-year low | Business | The Guardian

AGI/AIPG Geoscience & Public Policy Intern Article

http://wyden.senate.gov/issues/wyden_oil_report.pdf

[a trail rider]

We all agree we're getting screwed in one way or another. The issue is how we go about stopping that screwing. The long term answer is several fuel sources. Removing oil is none of the answers, though that would please millions.

The oil companies aren't at all the only place to lay blame, but they desrerve some of it and sadly, bare most of it regularly. Our Congress deserves at least that amount, if not more. No, it isn't because they didn't control the oil industry. It's more because they made things difficult on everyone through all processes.

And the problem today is COST! That cost is largely composed of the price per barrel. Since our Congress refuses to allow drilling for ALL our oil, we can't rightfully get to enough of it to scare any other producer and so, they won't lower prices. Meanwhile, we face conclusive problems nationally. Namely, rising cost of living... FAST! And since we're not making more per person, we need to control that rise... FAST! The only way to instantly affect any change is to open our sources and refineries, along with continuing to build and use as many alternatives as it takes to find the ones we really find will work for most. The oil companies cannot control all the different aspects or approaches or have all the answers. Congress can't either. The problem is, Congress THINKS it can!

[BlackoutDrunk]

Hey BlownZ, nothing huh? I was just getting warmed up. I was ready to tackle government subsidies and then move on to the airline industry. I guess you don't want to play.

oh well take care.

[BlownZ]

uh no....you posted 27 links and failed to tell anyone exactly what it was you were trying to prove or were arguing about.

Hard to debate someone like that so I guess moving on is the right thing to do.