The Amnesty Fraud - Part Deux

[STAGE 2]

The Amnesty Fraud: Part II
By Thomas Sowell
May 23, 2007


Every aspect of the current immigration bill, and of the arguments made for it, has Fraud written all over it.

The first, and perhaps biggest, fraud is the argument that illegal aliens are "doing jobs Americans won't do." There are no such jobs.
Even in the sector of the economy in which illegal immigrants have the highest representation -- agriculture -- they are just 24 percent of the workers. Where did the other 76 percent come from, if these are jobs that Americans won't do?

The argument that illegal agricultural workers are "making a contribution to the economy" is likewise misleading. For well over half a century, this country has had chronic agricultural surpluses which have cost the taxpayers billions of dollars a year to buy, store, and try to get rid of on the world market at money-losing prices. If there were fewer agricultural workers and smaller agricultural surpluses, the taxpayers would save money.

What about illegal immigrants working outside of agriculture? They are a great bargain for their employers, because they are usually hard-working people who accept low pay and don't cause any trouble on the job.
But they are no bargain for the taxpayers who cover their medical bills, the education of their children and the costs of imprisoning those who commit a disproportionate share of crime.

Analogies with immigrants who came to this country in the 19th century and early 20th century are hollow, and those who make such analogies must know how different the situation is today. People who crossed an ocean to get here, many generations ago, usually came here to become Americans. There were organized efforts within their communities, as well as in the larger society around them, to help them assimilate.

Today, there are activists working in just the opposite direction, to keep foreigners foreign, to demand that society adjust to them by making everything accessible to them in their own language, minimizing their need to learn English.

As activists are working hard to keep alive a foreign subculture in so-called "bilingual" and other programs, they are also feeding the young especially with a steady diet of historic grievances about things that happened before the immigrants got here -- and before they were born.
These Balkanization efforts are joined by other Americans as part of the "multicultural" ideology that pervades the education system, the media, and politics.

The ease with which people can move back and forth between the United States and Mexico -- as contrasted with those who made a one-way trip across the Atlantic in earlier times -- reduces still further the likelihood that these new immigrants will assimilate and become an integral part of the American society as readily as many earlier immigrants did.

Claims that the new immigration bill will have "tough" requirements, including learning English, have little credibility in view of the way existing laws are not being enforced. What does "learning English" mean? I can say "arrivederci" and "buongiorno" but does that mean that I speak Italian?
Does anyone expect a serious effort to require a real knowledge of English from a government that captures people trying to enter the country illegally and then turns them loose inside the United States with instructions to report back to court -- which of course they are not about to do?

Another fraudulent argument for the new immigration bill is that it would facilitate the "unification of families." People can unify their families by going back home to them. Otherwise every illegal immigrant accepted can mean a dozen relatives to follow.

"What can we do with the 12 million people already here illegally?" is the question asked by amnesty supporters. We can stop them from becoming 40 million or 50 million, the way 3 million illegals became 12 million after the previous amnesty.

The most fundamental question of all has not been asked: Who should decide how many people, with what qualifications and prospects, are to be admitted into this country? Is that decision supposed to be made by anyone in Mexico who wants to come here?

[Gothmog]

The GOP (big business), wants cheap labor
The DEM are pandering for the latino vote.

they both win, and the american people lose.

[The Blob]

Originally Posted by STAGE 2

.

You're the President and you can handle the situation any way you want... what's the plan?

[Gothmog]

Originally Posted by The Blob

You're the President and you can handle the situation any way you want... what's the plan?

arrest anyone here illegally, then sieze all their assests to pay for their incarceration. Then deport them.

[STAGE 2]

Originally Posted by The Blob

You're the President and you can handle the situation any way you want... what's the plan?

Simple. Its called 20/20. Employers that are caught hiring illegals for a first offense are fined 20% of their gross yearly earnings. A second offense gets the owners/managers 20 years.

At the same time we also start rounding up illegals. Beef up border security and post armed BP at points used by smugglers and you'll see a dramatic drop.

This isn't rocket science.

[BlownZ]

As an employer..I have to disagree......it is rocket science.

The problem being that their isn't any method to verify citizenship in place right now.

Too often illegals have assumed identities of actual citizens or they have a forged SS card etc. The fake SSN you can always find out down the road but when they assume identities their is no avenue for an employer to verify who it is standing in front of you if all of their documents appear legitimate.

Unless we have some kind of system to be able to positively verify the identity of an employee then it is rocket science.

[TURBOTWIN2]

Blown, have you tried background checks?

[STAGE 2]

Originally Posted by BlownZ

As an employer..I have to disagree......it is rocket science.

As an employer you should also know that your field isn't the popular one with illegals. Things like textile factories, farms and construction sites are what should be targeted because most use day/weekly labor. By in large this isn't a situation where the illegal fills out a job application, and presents his credentials.

These people don't exactly blend in very well.

[Drew L]

come on, these illegals are just occupying 27% of the jail space that Americans just can't be bothered occupying

[The Blob]

Z is right... until there is a better identification system in place it is not the slam dunk people think it is to tell who is illegal and who's not.

And as far as rounding them up... there is not enough law enforcement officers to make a dent in 12 million even if that's all they worked on full time.

Originally Posted by Stage 2

Things like textile factories, farms and construction sites are what should be targeted because most use day/weekly labor.

So you shut down the textile factories, farms, and construction sites... now what have you accomplished?

If you went to New Orleans and rounded up all the illegals, the rebuilding effort (or what passes for the rebuilding effort ) would come to a screeching halt. How would that benefit anybody?

And don't tell me that American workers would jump right in because while the Mexicans are working their asses off (for a minimum of $10 - $15/hr) there are still the "Homeless - Please Help" guys plying the intersections.

[SuzyQ]

Originally Posted by The Blob

And don't tell me that American workers would jump right in because while the Mexicans are working their asses off (for a minimum of $10 - $15/hr) there are still the "Homeless - Please Help" guys plying the intersections.

This is where you offer those collecting food stamps and welfare for a living the opportunity to work or starve

[Vector]

The current immigration bill stinks. It is the bill that the President wants passed; the President is wrong with regard to the current immigration bill before Congress.

[salvageV6]

" come on, these illegals are just occupying 27% of the jail space that Americans just can't be bothered occupying "

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

[STAGE 2]

Originally Posted by The Blob

Z is right... until there is a better identification system in place it is not the slam dunk people think it is to tell who is illegal and who's not.

But it really is. Not every illegal has fake documents. In fact according to some of the people I talk to at DHS and ICE, a majority of these people don't have fake documents.

I agree that a system need to be in place to verify identity, however there are plenty of people that can be caught without needing this system. So much so that by the time a system would be up and running we would still probably be going after those without documents.

And as far as rounding them up... there is not enough law enforcement officers to make a dent in 12 million even if that's all they worked on full time.

But again your logic here is the same as before. Namely "because we can't do it 100% we shouldn't do anythign at all". This isn't a way to accomplish things since there really isn't anything we ever can do 100%. Right now in my county alone I can take you to 3 large cardboard cities where illegals are squatting. I can take you to countless places where these people hang out in broad daylight looking for work.

We aren't talking about officers busting down doors searching for these people. They are easy to find. We simply need to actually enforce the law.

So you shut down the textile factories, farms, and construction sites... now what have you accomplished?

If you take the stats from the article to be true then the largest percentage of illegals in any particular industry is 24%. If we were able to snap our fingers and remove all of these illegal workers immediately, agriculture wouldn't come to a screeching halt. Prices would rise and then level off with time.

But thats not how things would happen. Enforcement takes time, and after a couple of large busts, farms would start policing themselves for fear of being caught. This would make the change far more efficient and be far more effective than anything law enforcement could do. Furthermore, the costs of these changes would be distributed over time minimizing the effect further.

If you went to New Orleans and rounded up all the illegals, the rebuilding effort (or what passes for the rebuilding effort ) would come to a screeching halt. How would that benefit anybody?

As someone who lived in Texas during those two storms, I have first hand knowledge of the hoards of people that volunteered their time and money going to NO to help rebuild. Add that to the federal and state employees already there and I'm skeptical at the impact that illegals have had there.

Even if there were armies of illegal rebuilding there, this is not the case of "a job americans won't do". Millions of people work in construction and there is no shortage of american workers willing to do that job.

And don't tell me that American workers would jump right in because while the Mexicans are working their asses off (for a minimum of $10 - $15/hr) there are still the "Homeless - Please Help" guys plying the intersections.

I just did.

[Weester]

How are you going to find 12 million illegals?

How are you going to detain 12 million illegals?

How are you going to transport 12 million illegals?

It aint gonna happen, so quit your whinning!

[BlownZ]

Originally Posted by TURBOTWIN2

Blown, have you tried background checks?

If it's an assumed identity what good does that do?

[BlownZ]

Originally Posted by STAGE 2

But it really is. Not every illegal has fake documents. In fact according to some of the people I talk to at DHS and ICE, a majority of these people don't have fake documents.

I agree with that. Many don't if not the majority...but it's because they don't need em yet. If they need em they can get em.

I agree that a system need to be in place to verify identity, however there are plenty of people that can be caught without needing this system. So much so that by the time a system would be up and running we would still probably be going after those without documents.

Yeah but in your earlier post you were talking about a 20% profit penalty and then a 20 year jail sentence for an employer......as a lawyer....you know we need to be tight before we can implement legislation of any kind.

But again your logic here is the same as before. Namely "because we can't do it 100% we shouldn't do anythign at all". This isn't a way to accomplish things since there really isn't anything we ever can do 100%. Right now in my county alone I can take you to 3 large cardboard cities where illegals are squatting. I can take you to countless places where these people hang out in broad daylight looking for work.
We aren't talking about officers busting down doors searching for these people. They are easy to find. We simply need to actually enforce the law.

See my response above. I am all for rounding up and enforcing laws....I am not for putting employers in jail when we have no system to identify illegals.

If you take the stats from the article to be true then the largest percentage of illegals in any particular industry is 24%. If we were able to snap our fingers and remove all of these illegal workers immediately, agriculture wouldn't come to a screeching halt. Prices would rise and then level off with time.

But thats not how things would happen. Enforcement takes time, and after a couple of large busts, farms would start policing themselves for fear of being caught. This would make the change far more efficient and be far more effective than anything law enforcement could do. Furthermore, the costs of these changes would be distributed over time minimizing the effect further.




As someone who lived in Texas during those two storms, I have first hand knowledge of the hoards of people that volunteered their time and money going to NO to help rebuild. Add that to the federal and state employees already there and I'm skeptical at the impact that illegals have had there.

Even if there were armies of illegal rebuilding there, this is not the case of "a job americans won't do". Millions of people work in construction and there is no shortage of american workers willing to do that job.




I just did.

[STAGE 2]

Originally Posted by Weester

How are you going to find 12 million illegals?

How are you going to detain 12 million illegals?

How are you going to transport 12 million illegals?

It aint gonna happen, so quit your whinning!

Your response demonstrates your complete lack of intelligence on this issue. I never said we are going to find ALL of the illegals in this country. What I DID say is that we should deport those illegals that are easily found.

Give me a good reason why we shouldn't round up illegals squatting on private property or standing around looking for work. You simply can't.