John McCain Gives the US effort in Iraq a "D"

[jshilli1]

Does critisism make someone a traitor?

I'm not sure McCain deserves the R beside his name. He needs to shut up and get behind the president. Terrorist lover? Someone should ask Scott McClellan what mark, on a scale from one to ten, President Bush gives the US effort in Iraq.

From http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20050621...NlYwMlJVRPUCUl

"I think democracy and freedom is spreading throughout the Middle East. I think it's a direct result of the events in Iraq, at least partially," said McCain, who said on a scale of one to 10, he would give the US effort in Iraq a "six."

I still don't understand the media and policians efforts at comparing events of the past to events of the preset. Its like we say, well Y is not as bad as X so why try to improve?

[TTAfreak]

John McCain is definately no republican.

but he did serve this country honorably and for that he has my respect.

I definately wouldnt vote for him though.

[BlownZ]

Originally Posted by jshilli1

Does critisism make someone a traitor?

I'm not sure McCain deserves the R beside his name. He needs to shut up and get behind the president. Terrorist lover? Someone should ask Scott McClellan what mark, on a scale from one to ten, President Bush gives the US effort in Iraq.

From http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20050621...NlYwMlJVRPUCUl



I still don't understand the media and policians efforts at comparing events of the past to events of the preset. Its like we say, well Y is not as bad as X so why try to improve?

I don't understand when it became fashionable to bash John McCain?

If you actually read the article...and not just the headline.....the real villain of it is Hagel. McCain gave the US effort a 6....and I frankly would have to agree. Hagel on the other hand gives us ZERO credit.....why not bash him?

In hindsight (which makes it easy) we could have done and should have done a better job on some things. Is that bashing the president....I don't think so. I think even Bush or Cheney or Rumsfeld would admit they have made mistakes.

Why is this worthy of calling McCain a traitor......?? I don't get why some of you find it so fashionable to jump on a bandwagon when it is passing by.

[BlownZ]

Originally Posted by TTAfreak

John McCain is definately no republican.

What exactly makes him not a Republican?

[jshilli1]

BlownZ, I apologize for using perhaps a little too thinly veiled sarcasm in my first post.

My feeling is that the ploy both sides are using is to label anyone who doesn't agree with them anti-American or a traitor, which I certainly don't agree with. It is a poisonous political tactic that should only be used when the person in question is seriously approaching something realisticly labeled as treason- such as using intercepted intelligence for political gain, or leaking inteligence information.

I think McCain is truly a moderate republican, who operates against his party for three reasons:
1. Resentment towards Bush for, real or perceived, dirty tricks in the 2000 election.
2. Sometimes, he does what is right since it is right, regardless of the political cost.
3. He may run again in the future and wants to be seen as someone that can work with both sides.

I think John McCain served his country honorably. I would NEVER, in any case say anything negative about his service in Vietnam. However, I do not believe being a hero grants the man a free pass as a politician.

I like to raise these kinds of issues to highlight the differences in how some people see things based on who said it. If Ted Kennedy had said he gives the US effort a 6 out of 10, there would be a huge outcry demanding he apologize.

On the other issue, I think Bush or Cheney would say 9, or more likely, avoid answering the question altogether. Keep in mind, we're talking about the US effort as a whole. If you seperate it out and say "the troops", everyone should answer 10.

[UNGN]

Originally Posted by BlownZ

I don't understand when it became fashionable to bash John McCain?

If you actually read the article...and not just the headline.....the real villain of it is Hagel. McCain gave the US effort a 6....and I frankly would have to agree. Hagel on the other hand gives us ZERO credit.....why not bash him?

In hindsight (which makes it easy) we could have done and should have done a better job on some things. Is that bashing the president....I don't think so. I think even Bush or Cheney or Rumsfeld would admit they have made mistakes.

Why is this worthy of calling McCain a traitor......?? I don't get why some of you find it so fashionable to jump on a bandwagon when it is passing by.

Hagel is McCain's Toady. If McCain gets the nomination, Hagel will be his running mate. They are "good Cop, Bad cop". Hagel says stuff John McCain is thinking, but doesn't want to fall too out of favor with the conservatives, so he doesn't.

Hagel used to be buds with my dad, but now can't even look him in the eye. He is independently wealthy, doesn't need politics for money, but is in it purely for the ego stroking and getting invited to the best parties. If you Bash Bush, you get invited to parties with the "cool" people. Hagel would loose in the primary if he had to run this year. He's planning on never having to run for Senate again, when McCain takes him away from all the small people in Nebraska.

McCains not a traitor, but he's a little to friendly with the whackocrats for his own good. I wouldn't be surprised if Next he will be calling for an investigation of the Downing street memo, something John Kerry won't even do.

[tc86gn]

jshilli,
Why don't you put away your stick.

[jshilli1]

Originally Posted by tc86gn

jshilli,
Why don't you put away your stick.

And that means, what?

[bruce]

Originally Posted by jshilli1

Does critisism make someone a traitor?

It depends on what they're saying, and how they're saying it. If the critism is nothing but a pack of lies, then, it would only serve to aid, the enemy, and that is Treason.

Intelligent debate is what our Founding Forefathers did, and we need to return to that. The Media, and it's almost total concern for nothing but ratings, is doing a huge disservice to America.

[Red Regal T]

McCain, being a "moderate" Republican, is a media hound. Why not, the leftist media loves him........ and why? He's a thorn in the side of the Administration and conservatives in general. He might as well be a DIMocrat.

[tc86gn]

Originally Posted by jshilli1

And that means, what?

Your **** stirring stick!

[bruce]

Originally Posted by Red Regal T

McCain, being a "moderate" Republican, is a media hound.

He was just in the right place at the right time, IMO. As a Vet, other Vets saw him as someone familiar with their plight. For the Draft Dogders, etc., they saw him as someone that'd seen the face of war, and knew he wouldn't be too eager in getting into another *Nam*. The active duty guys, also saw him as being a friend. Being called a Hero didn't hurt.

[BlownZ]

Originally Posted by Red Regal T

McCain, being a "moderate" Republican, is a media hound. Why not, the leftist media loves him........ and why? He's a thorn in the side of the Administration and conservatives in general. He might as well be a DIMocrat.

Other than his recent deal with the Dems.....how is he thorn in the side of the Administration?

I think an argument could be made that McCain is more of a Republican than Bush is when you take into account their fiscall views.

I am curious....where did McCain go from good guy to bad? It seems trendy to not like McCain if you are a Bush supporter.....why?

Facts please.

[Red Regal T]

Whoever said he was a good guy? I don't like him. He's a maverick, not dependable for a Republican and liable to come up on any side of an issue. "Trendy" has nothing to do with it.

[UNGN]

Originally Posted by BlownZ

Other than his recent deal with the Dems.....how is he thorn in the side of the Administration?

I think an argument could be made that McCain is more of a Republican than Bush is when you take into account their fiscall views.

I am curious....where did McCain go from good guy to bad? It seems trendy to not like McCain if you are a Bush supporter.....why?

Facts please.

For me, the Whining about the "2000 South Carolina Primary" is where my respect for McCain took a nosedive. I lived there and was pretty familiar with the Republican Party Politics. McCain went to the Media about Bush trying to smear his good name, when that A-hole was doing EXACTLY the same things. Bush called him on it, he stammers (the media ALWAYS leaves out that part when they bring up the 2000 SC Primary), Everyone in SC sees what a TWO FACED WHINER he is and he gets his clock cleaned in the state with one of the highest percentage of veterans in the country.

You can be called a hero all you want, but when you act like a whiner, you need to be called that, too. I'm sure he is a nice guy when no media is around, just don't get between him and a TV Camera.

[BlownZ]

Originally Posted by Red Regal T

Whoever said he was a good guy? I don't like him. He's a maverick, not dependable for a Republican and liable to come up on any side of an issue. "Trendy" has nothing to do with it.

Red....understandably not every individual liked McCain but at one time...a majority looked at him favorably in my opinion. It seems now he has become a bit of an albatross in the eyes of many.

I am just wondering why. If you never liked him then I guess you can't answer the question.

[BlownZ]

Originally Posted by UNGN

For me, the Whining about the "2000 South Carolina Primary" is where my respect for McCain took a nosedive. I lived there and was pretty familiar with the Republican Party Politics. McCain went to the Media about Bush trying to smear his good name, when that A-hole was doing EXACTLY the same things. Bush called him on it, he stammers (the media ALWAYS leaves out that part when they bring up the 2000 SC Primary), Everyone in SC sees what a TWO FACED WHINER he is and he gets his clock cleaned in the state with one of the highest percentage of veterans in the country.

You can be called a hero all you want, but when you act like a whiner, you need to be called that, too. I'm sure he is a nice guy when no media is around, just don't get between him and a TV Camera.

Isn't this true of a lot of politicians?

It seems every election in the last 15 years has started off with the candidates agreeing not to smear each other but slowly...bit by bit...it turns into a slug fest.

[Red Regal T]

We already know your opinion of politicians is that their all liars. I got news for you. Conservatives don't like two faced liars.