Stock Appearing TR Class for Bowling Green 08

[GNocide]

So you can go very fast with a stock appearing turbo then add a power add to the mix this class will be out of controll

i like the way you think- shawn

Originally Posted by Dusty Bradford

So hiding a n2o system is encouraged??

wrong- appearing is encouraged

not cutting up the car is encourage

stock looking parts are encouraged


anything outside of that is your craftsmanship/ building skill and tunning

if your good enough -can install stealthy- and drive decent is all it takes

Originally Posted by Dusty Bradford

Some people probably would like to see a heads up class that's 100% stock appearing but c'mon. Depending on the tech to find a hidden power adder...please

this is not a democracy- if it ever comes to pass there may be more subtle changes to the class until then

some people would like to see allot of changes to alot of race classes besides this proposed one-i see they are not happening either


reality is most people dont put up money or organize anything for anybodys benefit on here

most just complain about how they would have done it on the internet

it is what it is
the rule makers will make the rules and do the tech- visual inspection(again)
cant emphasis this enough- cause nobody understands it

if you worth your salt on a clean unseen install of dfi-nos whatever
you could be be the highest paid winner of all the classes

[Dusty Bradford]

I like the idea but I've raced with this club for almost 10 years so I understand the politics involved in these classes. Those that have raced in BG know exactly what happens in any class other than TSM and TSO when it comes to tech decisions. I'll keep quiet and just see how this one turns out.

[HyperV6]

Where are the rules??? Can someone post the official 2008 rules? How can this class even happen if no one has time to get a car ready? The Nationals are only 3 months away. Any real class info would be appeciated.

Thanks, Craig

[GNocide]

id call kirbans if anyones interested-
he states they are on the gsca website but haven't seen them

[A2000RICH]

Originally Posted by HyperV6

Where are the rules??? Can someone post the official 2008 rules? How can this class even happen if no one has time to get a car ready? The Nationals are only 3 months away. Any real class info would be appeciated.

Thanks, Craig

its gonna happen-------its officially TSA------- turbo stock appearing-----------it has taken me weeks to get the rules approved since there are so many folks to satisfy-------its not exactly what i originally envisioned but i'm satisfied overall------lots of politics and protocol in Bowling Green-------prize money has been forwarded to person responsible for sponsors----------1600 for first, 800 for second and 500 for third------- purse is doubled if car also scores above a certain score in the concours class----------i realize that time is short but how long should it take to get a "stock" car ready---------i have been waiting for several days to see the rules get posted on the GSCA website but they don't seem to get posted-------tomorrow i am gonna call and see whats holding it up---------if they dont show up by the end of the week i will put them up here............RC

[HyperV6]

The rules from the GSCA website.

TSA "Turbo stock appearing" TR class qualifying ET 13.2


The TSA TR class is intended to provide a race class for cars that are STOCK APPEARING. Unlike the TSS class where some visible mods are allowed for performance reasons, virtually all of those will not be allowed in this class. It is intended that with the STOCK APPEARING requirement, innovation will develop methods that will push the performance of STOCK APPEARING cars to a level that has not been achieved in the past. In some cases such as exhaust systems where original replacements are no longer available and haven't been for quite some time we will allow "reasonable upgrades". For the sake of these rules the term "stock appearing" does NOT mean similar to, better than, improved, really close, almost identical, should have been like this, what GM really intended, more stock than stock, they made a mistake and this is how my car was shipped, etc. Since the spirit of the class is for STOCK APPEARING cars we really shouldn't have to spell things out in much detail. This means if we can SEE it and it's not how the car was delivered its not allowed. Or put another way if you have to ask if its ok------ its not! [1]


No tools will be used for inspection beyond a light, mirror, ruler, scales and scan tool. No removal of parts or disassembly will be done in tech that requires tools. Cars are subject to re-tech at any time before or after runs. Car must have option sticker on trunk lid with VIN that matches car.


The qualifying ET is based on the factory posted times for a GNX. With poor tires, exhaust, chip and turbo (all allowed in this class) the GNX was able to achieve 13.2 as far back as 1987.


Suspension :


Must retain all original equipment.

NO frame mods or reinforcements.

Stock wheelbase, stock unmodified control arms front and rear with black bushings in original locations.

Since all the cars didn't come with the same body bushing compliment you can have them in all locations as long as they are GM bushings.

No frame braces that didn't come on the car.

No traction bars unless the car is an original GNX and then they must be original.

Rear seat braces are ok as long as they are installed and visible only from the trunk.

8.5 inch 10 bolt GM rear with stock stamped cover unless it is an original GNX. Posi may be added to non posi cars.

Must have stock dimension and diameter sway bars front and rear with black bushings.

Stock appearing brakes, drums back (alum ok), disc front.

Any type stock appearing shocks in stock location----any color ok.

Springs must be single coil design like original stock springs.

No air bags.

Car must sit at one inch of stock ride height. This would be 8" from road surface to frame rail measured at all 4 jacking mounts.


Engine compartment


109 block with no EXTERNAL mods.

All original equipment and sensors intact-no deletions or additions that aren't supported by build tag on inside trunk lid. Original size battery in stock location with original type side terminals and battery cables.

Original type stock appearing water pump.

Original, stock, externally appearing manifold, throttle body (alum or silver in color).

Original appearing starter and 120A CS alternator with stock appearing fan.

Stock accessory bracket with original appearing power steering pump/pulley and AC compressor/pulley

Stock appearing black coil pack.

Grey or black spark plug wires original size/length/diameter routed in original location.

Original GM headers with heat shields intact---may be welded for repair purposes.

Original diameter one piece downpipe (2.5"max)

Original type wastegate---- may be modified to make it adjustable (ie threaded rod).

Original type solenoid (one only) must be only control for wastegate.

Stock appearing 3 bolt turbo must fit under unmodified shield mounted in stock location with stock bracket with stock GM cast inlet bell with vent intact----the vent can be blocked but like everything else it must not appear from the outside to be modified.

Stock appearing MAF (AC molded with down turned plug)

OEM inlet flex hose with no modifications (tape etc)

Stock intercooler with no external mods with stock inlets/outlets mounted with stock brackets in stock location with stock scoop (screen may be removed)

Any size injectors in 6 stock locations.

Stock appearing fuel rail

GM 8445 heads with NO external mods or logos---- installed with GM TTY bolts. Any head gaskets.

Stock appearing unmodified valve covers (must be alum or silver in appearance) installed with 1 oem style cork gasket, NO spacers. Original filler cap and tube on driver side.

Original breather and tubing on pass side.

Stock radiator tanks. Additional cores can be added but support cannot be modified.

Original underhood wiring and loom must be intact with no additions/deletions that aren't supported by option tag-----only exceptions 1-alarm, 2- single relay and wiring for fuel pump "hotwire" upgrade.

AC may be converted to R-134 and must be operational enough to blow colder than ambient.

Powermaster with stock reservoir.

Stock unmodified air box (no holes when installed on car) with snorkel.

NO chrome if GM didn't do it.

Hoses must be black and clamps must be original color.

No engine tiedowns.

Aftermarket engine/tranny mounts ok if they use original mounting holes and black cushions.

Stock unmodified fans in both locations-radiator and crank. Original diameter pulleys and serpentine belt.


Tranny


2004R with no visible external mods except for 2ond servo.

Stock pan and driveshaft---loop ok, any convertor or transbrake as long as it is not visible under or inside the car.

Trans cooler ok as long as it is mounted and plumbed "GNX" style


Tires/wheels


Any matching set of 15" or 16" steel or alum wheels-------must retain original bolt pattern-------front tires must be at least 215 wide ------rear tires must be 275 or less DOT radials-----NO SLICKS


Interior


Full stock appearing interior matching option codes on trunk lid. Original gauge cluster, only addition to gauges is boost (2 1/8 max dia) and it must be pillar, column or console mounted.

Stock shifter

Radio may be upgraded but must fit in stock location with no visible components/parts elsewhere.

All windows must be glass and all door windows must function as normal.


Exterior


Complete car exterior retaining original appearance as it was on the showroom floor.

All bumpers (must be original steel), fillers, panels and lights must be in place.

All body panels must be painted--- no bare metal or primer.

No signs on painted exterior of car. Any signs on windows must be smaller than 1" letters, logos <2" unless they are from state inspection or a factory window sticker.

No fiberglass or ABS body parts except for bumper fillers.

Full size OEM aluminum or steel bumper reinforcements, use of aluminum bumper reinforcements does not have to match VIN tag in trunk.

Bumper shocks must be original steel/unmodified.

No mods to sheet metal, fenders etc.

Repro header panels and trunk spoilers are allowed if they are fitted correctly and look original.

Car may be undercoated.


Fuel system


Factory stock appearing tank, no VISIBLE additions to tank or pumps except for relay and wire upgrade

Replacement lines may be used as long as they are original size and are routed in stock location

233 or 237 regulator with no external mods.

Stock ECM with any chip, no other computers allowed.

Only one O2 and it must be installed in the original location.

Must run gasoline for fuel, no more than 10% oxygenators------any octane ok

No fuel additives, NOS, alcohol or other chemicals allowed


Exhaust


Downpipe must be one piece and attach to stock elbow in stock fashion (ie with donut and spring loaded bolts, downpipe must route in stock location, no flexpipe.

Stock diameter one piece crossover pipe (does not have to neck down on either end)

Stock appearing full length cat must be in stock location-- must be able to pass a 50 state VISUAL inspection

Original design or dual mufflers but must function (muffle) and exit in stock location, must be 2.5 inch or less pipes past "Y" connection at cat. No cutouts.


Minimum weight 3,500 w/driver lbs-------spare tire and jack does not have to be in place when racing or weighing



Purse will be $2900 if there are at least 3 qualifying cars. 1600 first, 800 second and 500 third. As an indicator of the spirit of the class, purse will be doubled for any car if it scores at least ________ [2] in the concours class of the car show. Car must race identical as it appears in the concours with NO changes except for wheels and tires.

Example: car places third in race class and silver in concours, purse of $500 would be doubled to $1000

Richard Clark will be the Race Rules Administrator. Any questions about rules clarification and or interpretation can be addressed to this board or to richardclark@ami-media.com


Thanks for getting this posted. Sounds like fun. I'd have to change several things to be legal with my car.

Craig

[NCTURBOS]

Interesting... I'm now on which direction to go with the car...

Too bad the Sage car won't have it's new shine ready for 2008.


K.

[HyperV6]

Anyone planning to race in this class? It should be a lot of fun.

Craig

[QuickWrench]

I'm trying to make it, but not sure if I can get done in time. These pics are from a couple weeks ago.

[QuickWrench]

Really, I think this class is awesome. Got me motivated to finally get this turd running again.

I'm guessing it's probably going to take an 11.0 [or slightly better] to take home the prize money. If somebody does the work to build a car for these rules, I would think it will only be about .5-.7 slower than TSS, unless somebody jumps the shark and hides nitrous. We'll see...

[QuickWrench]

BTW, what have the top TSS cars been running the last couple of years?

[NCTURBOS]

Originally Posted by QuickWrench

BTW, what have the top TSS cars been running the last couple of years?

10.1's...


K.

[GNregistry]

Stock GN vs Stock GNX is no comparison, how many GN's / GNX's does Mr Richard Clark own to offer and compete in this class...

I would do more damage to my GN racing it 3 times down the track or driving it to Bowling Green to compete in a race that may cost more in wear and tear than what is offered. You would think using Kirban Products such as front frame braces and etc would benefit the business as a whole... I would have to trailer my car and then remove engine/connecting frame braces and remove torque strap, not to mention all the black track stuff from driving down the track, no money is worth proving or showing off what a stock appearing TR can do. Then if I buy a TR/GN and upgrade it parts due to wear and tear, I sure ain't gonna add stock parts to go stock speed...

This class needs tweaking, but gs nats officials require procedures to be followed for rule changes/implementation and testing over the years...

Sounds simple but people complain when it does not help them in a positive way. But remember if the gs nationals fade away, becuz retirement is better than dealing with politics and attitudes from owners and spectators tired.

Brett Favre retired becuz he was tired of the people not the game.. My dad retired becuz he was tired of the politics and working more and getting paid less... Now he works more at home and sleeps less and life is GREAT...

What happened to coming out to have fun, who cares about the payouts, there are closer events to your area that offer big payouts, it really comes down to sponsors. How many family reunions do you attend and require money becuz you showed up to participate in the potato sack race. It is about fun and family and Buick cars and people with similar interests. IT IS BUICK HEAVEN IN THE LIFE OF HELL ON EARTH WITH SOARING FUEL, ENERGY AND FOOD PRICES. ENJOY LIFE AND SMILE WE ARE HERE ANOTHER DAY AND ANOTHER YEAR,

Buick GS Nationals is the start of summer...

I help out with photos for mud drags, and the payout is $1,000 for 1st,$650 for 2nd, $400 for 3rd just for blower class and they only race in 2.5 second intervals, but they don't pay a fortune for track rental for 5 days...

BRUSH EATERS >> SCHEDULE >> May 9 & 10, 2008.
Race Payout for Saturday May 10, 2008

Place 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th 9th 10th Fee
Blower $1000 $650 $400 $300 $200 $100 $100 $75 $50 $50 $50
Pro Mod
Injected $700 $400 $250 $150 $100 $75 $50 $40
Pro Stock $400 $200 $150 $100 $75 $50 $30
V-8 $100 $75 $50 $25 $20
All Other
Classes Trophy Trophy Trophy $15

[GNocide]

your whole post was a terrible response to why you cant have a race class built around YOUR car -

you didn't understand the rules at all before posting that god awful mess


and who cares about mud races anyway here and what they charge- don't you have another forum to get that attention from?

[GNregistry]

Money comes from sponsors, if racers want bigger payout, money comes from sponsors adding money...

or spectators adding money, the gsca pays a fortune for track rental and insurance and emergency personnel, which hopefully is never needed...

all the people I know racing having sponsors on their cars or businesses that pay to add their products to racing to help as marketing, like nascar, bigger sport biggeer money... but we are not in the same sentence as nascar...

But if you look at special additions and HR parts n stuff, they have stepped up, go to gsnationals.com sponsors to see for yourself...

another example: red armstong sponsored a race in which he usually won or placed in top 3 if not first, he has a great car and products...

as I was saying you cannot compare a stock appearing grand national to a stock appearing GNX...

in the mud drags, they have $1,000 payout as an EXAMPLE for 1st, $650 for 2nd, etc in years past, the mud drags event offered $12,000 purse for race payouts..., where did the money come from, sponsors, maybe, owners, maybe, but the track rental for mud drags is a field, not a race track in Bowling Green, KY for one week.

also, large payouts are based on car count...

do you understand, what I am typing and saying...

it costs a lot of money to build a race car, and then costs even more money to enter races, $30 per day etc or more, I don't know exactly but check out registration, I am looking at only the stock appearing class...

How much money do the big V8 and V6 Turbo cars really have into their cars, more than you probably make in a year or even 5 years, what is $1,000 payout for $10,000 in parts...

have a great day, enjoy the weather... go sit in your car, and chill, relax