Mid-High 11's on pump gas (no alchy)??

BASS · #1 (**permalink**) November 21st, 2006, 01:10 PM

Ok, with a stock d5 converter, dutt neck stock ic, MSD50's, THDP, and a dual BB TE44 turbo from PTE, would I be able to reliably hit mid-high 11's on 93 pump gas with no alchy??? This is on a low mileage, stock unopened motor (with the exception of new valve springs and a free flowing exhaust)..

It looks like I need to get the water line kit for cooling that dual ball bearing garret turbo, but the turbonetics version doesnt need any water cooling on their single ball bearing turbo...For street use, I would imagine that the water cooled one would last longer....

Grumpy · #2 (**permalink**) November 21st, 2006, 01:11 PM

nope

I like the non water cooled turbo myself

Sweet6 · #3 (**permalink**) November 21st, 2006, 01:16 PM

Need heads/cam to do that. I would say 12.50 with that set up on 93. But that may be pushing it.

Mid 11s on gas, you will need at least 112 octane probably 116 octane. Or get an Alky kit.

t3intercooled · #4 (**permalink**) November 21st, 2006, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BASS

Ok, with a stock d5 converter, dutt neck stock ic, MSD50's, THDP, and a dual BB TE44 turbo from PTE, would I be able to reliably hit mid-high 11's on 93 pump gas with no alchy??? This is on a low mileage, stock unopened motor (with the exception of new valve springs and a free flowing exhaust)..

It looks like I need to get the water line kit for cooling that dual ball bearing garret turbo, but the turbonetics version doesnt need any water cooling on their single ball bearing turbo...For street use, I would imagine that the water cooled one would last longer....

It is going to be very hard to hit that without a couple things that maybe you ahve that you didn't mention. First is a chip, what kind of chip do you have? Second how much boost you running, Third what tires you running. You got to give us a little more. But most likely you will not hit the 11s witha stock converter, unless you have an unbelievable tune. I would suggest buying an Art Carr 19930 9" non lock up converter. Then you'll hit 11s.

BASS · #5 (**permalink**) November 21st, 2006, 01:18 PM

Yeah, I dunno, these turbos are fairly new and it looks like no one has had these turbos long enough to say how reliable they are? I could be wrong though..

I think the easiest to do is just get alchy with Eric's chip burned for that and it would be ok...Hmm, and maybe also a stretch ic or front mount would make it easier...

I dont want to get a higher stall converter like that because I think they will kill my top end, say, for example, I go on the parkway over 100 mph (especially with a 9 in. non lock up converter)...

Sweet6 · #6 (**permalink**) November 21st, 2006, 01:43 PM

You can do 11s on a D5. My buddy went 11.48 with a D5 and a TE34. With the BB 44, I think spool should be great. But I do not have any info on those BB 44s. If you get Alky, you can skip the IC upgrade. The Alky has a colling effect. I would get the BB 44 and a Alky kit and let er rip. Should hit high 11s no problem. Probably faster if you really pushed it. But 11.80s should be pretty easy to obtain.

TurboDave · #7 (**permalink**) November 21st, 2006, 01:51 PM

I'm running a regular 44, 50's and a front mount and can run low/mid 12's but can't get it into the 11's, until I run a "race chip" configuration (high boost, high timing).

VadersV6 · #8 (**permalink**) November 21st, 2006, 04:12 PM

The number for that Art Carr converter is 16930, not 19930, unless you're talking about a completely different one. Heres the link: Art Carr - Product Detail
I had this converter and it was amazing. But it does slip alot when you're even mildly accelerating up to cruise speed. But just give it half throttle, even in a higher gear, and the turbo will spool INSTANTLY and will really kick your car in the ass. Like Ive said in other posts, switching to the D5 felt like I lost 100hp. But, the D5 does pull alot harder up high in the rpm range cause it slips less.
As for 11's, I dont see why you cant reach that. You dont needs heads/cam. But a ported intake and power plate would help. I ported the last 1.5 inches in from the runner exits, out to the fel pro gasket size. Given the big taper of the runners, just doing this will help flow ALOT. I noticed an immediate and significant difference. I also lightly radiused the sharp edges around the intake ports on the heads, while the intake was off. I just soaked some big sponges in WD-40 and stuffed them in all the runners. Then I used a big wet dry vac and sucked all the particles out while slowly pulling the sponges out when I was done. Maybe doing this helped alot more than just doing the intake alone. Sharp edges destroy airflow.
i would also run a good bleeder valve for the turbo, to help spool even faster. Throw an airbag in the pass. side rear, underinflate the rears, overinflate the fronts, pull the swaybar, run as much boost as you can....the thought of no alky confuses me. Its awesome to have.

Sweet6 · #9 (**permalink**) November 21st, 2006, 04:21 PM

When I said heads/cam, that was to run mid 11s on 93 octane and no alky. On a stock motor 11s is pretty easy on race gas.

ESP Products · #10 (**permalink**) November 21st, 2006, 04:54 PM

The 50#s may be a little too big and hurt top end. We've run high-mid 11s with 36# and 38# inj. You can leave the engine alone, but we suggest a good FM intercooler. This and a good fuel system, and a D5 3000 stall will get you into the 11.6-8 range.

Hope this helps you.

TurboDave · #11 (**permalink**) November 21st, 2006, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ESP Products

The 50#s may be a little too big and hurt top end. We've run high-mid 11s with 36# and 38# inj. You can leave the engine alone, but we suggest a good FM intercooler. This and a good fuel system, and a D5 3000 stall will get you into the 11.6-8 range.

Hope this helps you.

On 93 octane, and no alky????? come on... With such unrealistic goals you're setting him up for some serious disapointment.

BASS · #12 (**permalink**) November 21st, 2006, 05:01 PM

Ok, so for a strictly steet use (reliable, low 12 second car), the follwoing should be fine on 93 pump gas: a te44 (ball bearing or not), my MSD50s, THDP, stock d5 converter, dutt neck ic (or possibly a front mount), power plate, good exhaust, good chip, and good tires should make it. Im thinking around 18 pounds (since my car can handle 18 pounds with no knock)...

Again, I dont want to get a higher stall converter since it will hurt my top end on the street (i.e. a 140 mph blast down the parkway)....

When I want to run mid-high 11's, I can just get an alchy kit and ill be set....

pacecarta · #13 (**permalink**) November 21st, 2006, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ESP Products

The 50#s may be a little too big and hurt top end. .

please enlighten me how this is even possible ???

ESP Products · #14 (**permalink**) November 21st, 2006, 05:10 PM

Quote:

On 93 octane, and no alky????? come on... With such unrealistic goals you're setting him up for some serious disapointment

Calm down, I missed the 93 octane part.
The more you do to the engine the easier it will be. Easy on the engine too. But you will have to try it step by step. The rest of what I said is still good. Note: If you are going to run 93 at the track, be sure to have good read-outs(gauges and/or wideband) to keep you safe. If you go down the track blind, you risk alot.

Hope this helps you.

ESP Products · #15 (**permalink**) November 21st, 2006, 05:17 PM

Quote:

please enlighten me how this is even possible ???

Your engine work most efficiently at a certain A/F ratio. If you have more (too much) air - then your lean and detonate. If your rich (too much fuel) you do not have full combustion and you loose HP; which = mph. We did just this last weekend at Atco. We ran our second run at only 124 mph; our A/F which is usually 11.5-7:1 was a rich 10.2-4:1 We lost over 6 mph.

Hope this helps you.

TurboDave · #16 (**permalink**) November 21st, 2006, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ESP Products

Calm down, I missed the 93 octane part.
The more you do to the engine the easier it will be. Easy on the engine too. But you will have to try it step by step. The rest of what I said is still good. Note: If you are going to run 93 at the track, be sure to have good read-outs(gauges and/or wideband) to keep you safe. If you go down the track blind, you risk alot.

Hope this helps you.

I wasn't trying to be smart aliky, thought you might have been missing something in the origanal post.
I've only been racing mine for a little over 20 years so I'm no expert, but since mine has been running a very similar setup to that in the original post for a number of years, and the tune is virtually perfect, I think I know what that setup is realistically capable of.
Disregarding the rare miracle run that we here of now and then that is.

Grumpy · #17 (**permalink**) November 21st, 2006, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BASS

Ok, so for a strictly steet use (reliable, low 12 second car), the follwoing should be fine on 93 pump gas: a te44 (ball bearing or not), my MSD50s, THDP, stock d5 converter, dutt neck ic (or possibly a front mount), power plate, good exhaust, good chip, and good tires should make it. Im thinking around 18 pounds (since my car can handle 18 pounds with no knock)...

Again, I dont want to get a higher stall converter since it will hurt my top end on the street (i.e. a 140 mph blast down the parkway)....

When I want to run mid-high 11's, I can just get an alchy kit and ill be set....

18#s of boost ain't gonna do crap

also like Dave I have run a close set up like that since the early -mid 90's..

bison · #18 (**permalink**) November 21st, 2006, 07:31 PM

To get those numbers at low boost you will need a lot of mods. Heads, cam and everything else that goes with it. I expect mine to run 117 mph at 17 psi in the spring but its modded a lot more than yours. You need a lot more rpm than the stock cam and set up is capable to get the hp at low boost levels.