ignition module trouble no spark 2nd new module

[onebadv6]

After getting several code 42 from the scanmaster I decide to get a new ignition module and thanks to the nice return policy at auto zone I recive a new one at no charge

well now I have went from bad to worse I cant get the car to start not even a spark from the spark plug wire no matter how I hook up the module

I have the WELLS unit and I here that there not all that great so
I get my money back from autozone and go to advanced auto where they carry the AC Delco brand the same modle # that ATR sells but @ $50 cheeper and a hell of alot closer

I still had the same results which was no spark

is it possible to get to bad modules off the shelf??

and if I checked the coil pack right it tested fine
what should the ohms read for a good coil pack and what other ways are there to check one ??

thanks for any input/help

[Red Regal T]

Just to add to your confusion, those parts are flakey. Yes, new ones can be bad. I wouldn't buy one unless I could check it with a Casper's coilpak tester. Wells units don't test with the tester, and while you might get a good unit, you can't test them, and I have at least 20 used Wells, that look like new, but won't go to WOT without engine misfire.

[onebadv6]

so what do I do
now for the suggestions

[onebadv6]

What about the AC delco can thoes be tested

[Red Regal T]

With a Casper's tester? I think so. You test the coilpak/ignition module as a unit.

If the wells started your car and the delco doesn't, either the delco's bad or you have the wires mixed up.

[GNVenom]

I would bet on the connector being bad. The 14 pin connector that plugs into the module. I've seen many bad connectors recently, because they lose the spring tension on the terminals, so the connection is not right. If you wiggle the connector, does the car run? Try that, it's worth a shot.
Otherwise you need to replace the connector. The small female terminals in the connector tend to lose the spring tension that is required to make a good contact to the pins on the module.

Hope this helps,
John Spina
www.casperselectronics.com

www.gnspyder.com

[onebadv6]

I did the wiggle test for both modules and I even went and bought some electronic cleaner for the plug still no luck

the old module that was giving me the codes was a Wells
and the car would still run but not very good

these two new ones I have will not even give me a spark
even if it is hooked up wrong it will still spark just the timing will be off

does any one have the ohms that the coil pack should be reading

and is there any way to check any kind of voltage at the conector
meaning which wire should do what or maby a wire scmatic

thanks

[Red Regal T]

Might want to try a known good unit. Get someone local to come over and help you out.

[y-hate]

This help me find my no start problem www.vortexbuicks-etc.com and go to the trouble shooting... good luck

[onebadv6]

NOW THATS WHAT IM TALKING ABOUT

I might be able to figure this thing out
is there any more sites like this???

still taking any and all suggestions
thanks

[y-hate]

With this site, no other is needed

[onebadv6]

ok the code 42 could be one of three things according to the vortex site C3I(ignition module) , EST or ByPass Circuit Failure

the C3I is the ignition module the bypass Circuit is in the ECM

where is the EST ???
is it inside the ignition module?

the vortex site was very helpful but dosent have a problem tree that fits my problem
I went back to auto zone and luckly they still had my old ignition module (wells unit) I reinstalled it and the car fired right up confussed I change it out and replace it with a new AC delco and I get nothing Upset I then change the AC delco out for a new wells module and i still get nothing Now mad I install the old wells and the POS fired right up WTF

this is my 2nd new AC delco and 1 new wells

what in the hell is going on 3 bad modules ???
I have 1 more wells coming in tomorrow

coil pack tested good 12.7 12.7 13
.9 .9 .9

thanks

[y-hate]

Check your ground wires, when i had no spark i trace it down by using the Vortex site and it was a short inside the camsensor connector...

[GNVenom]

I posted before, I'll post again.

CHECK YOUR CONNECTOR

That's the only thing that gets disturbed when you change coils. I'd bet that's your problem.

You can't really check it since a weak contact inside the connector is hard to find. So the alternative is

REPLACE YOUR CONNECTOR

If one of the modules has a pin that's out of alignment, it could destroy the spring contact it mates with, causing a problem with any module you install. I've seen this happen many times.

-John Spina

www.gnspyder.com

www.casperselectronics.com

[onebadv6]

ok I have ordred a new connector for the ICM

looking at the vortex site

I have the translator pluse and I had to tie into the EST wire coming from the ECM going to the ICM that let the translator add or retard timing

could the translator be bad or will advancing the timing from the translator damage the EST circuit

I have it advanced 2 degress I have went to 4 but it ran like crap and down to 4 retard it ran the best at 2 advanced

man I would be willing to make a loooong distance phone call to any one willing to help fixs this problem

thanks

[bruce]

I got mine from the local junkyard. At least you know they were working until the crash .

I bought two SMells in a row that were bad.

Be sure the addition ground wire is attached. The module it seems had a ground strap on some cars, and not on others. They depend on a ground thru the case, so if not mounted 100% right they can be flakey, not work, blow out, or set code 42s. I've seen all those combinations.

[onebadv6]

I finaly got a ignition module to give me a spark but its like the timing is off and no matter how i connect it to the coil pack it pops and back fires dosent make sense there are only 4 wires to connect the blue that has 3 connections to one side of the coil which is the common side
then the yellow is for 1 and 4
then the green is for 5 and 2
and the other blue is for 3 and 6
and I have tried every thing in between

could the blues be mixed up in side the ignition module meaning that the one blue that has the 3 common connections should be the blue that is the ground for 3 and 6


A BIG thanks goes out to everyone for there help

I'll tell you what that vortex web site is pretty neet I was able to test the workings of the crank sensor, the cam sensor and ignition module by jumpering the cam sensor and pulsing the crank sensor

with coil pack unhooked I connected 3 12volt lights to the connections for the coil pack and by pulsing the crank sensor I was able to pulse the injectors and light up the the 3 bulbs as if they were coils pretty neet but I still can not figure out why in the hell the car will not start but every thing points to the ignition module but it checks out ok by lighting up the bulbs and the coil is ok

the cam and crank sensor checked ok
all wires going to the ECM and sensors from the ignition module checked ok nothing grounded that shouldnt be

the new ignition module plug should be here tue or wed I dont think it is going to change any thing

[gnsrule]

I sure hope you find it and tell me. I got the same thing going on. It will run on the new Napa coil, but not 2 others that were tested back on the original car, and they work fine. Tried prolly 20 times in the past week. Have swaped out crank, cam sensors, wires, FAST harness, pinned out the oem harness to the sensors, added redundant grounds, swaped FAST box too, trying to find and answer to either, why does it idle like and break up under load, or why it will only run on the coil/module i got now. God forbit this one craps out, I'd be screwd.
Of the 2 that dont work on MY car, 1 backfires thru the exhaust and the other bucks against the starter, but work fine on the original cars
I think I'm on to my finding part of my engine running like **** problem tonite , but thats a different thread.
Good Luck

[onebadv6]

Im thinking that if it is not the ESC (Electronic Spark Control )module then it has to be somthing in the ecm

this part is located right beside the fuel pump relay and map sensor on the passenger side

Can any one tell me what elese the ESC does I know it has somthing to do with the knock sensor


thanks

[y-hate]

http://www.rennie-macintosh.com/tec...itionmodule.jpg

What is your car doing now? I hope this helps

[y-hate]

SORRY TRY THIS.....

http://www.rennie-macintosh.com/tech...tionmodule.jpg

[onebadv6]

Thanks for the info but I dont think I have that problem my ign and coil pack line up just fine I have never needed a adapter If that is what that is refering to

how would that play a part in my problem

I looking for any thing at this point


thanks

[y-hate]

Keep reading... this is not nothing for a adapter plate, it`s showing you how to hook up your coilpack to the module and its showing different types of module (including the module THAT HAS A ADAPTER )

[onebadv6]

I didnt change the coil pack

[y-hate]

i thought you needed help wiring your ignition module to the coil pack i`ve must have miss read somthing,,SORRY

[onebadv6]

Well I didnt think I needed help acording to that site you told me about it is connected that way but still its like its out of time

what would cause not enough timing on start up??

The more I dig the more that it seems to not have enough of timing to start with it spitting and poping and kicking back on the starter

Its either the ECM or the ESC (Electronic Spark Control )module I am still trying to figure what it does besides working with the knock sensor

my computer is going down for some upgrades should have it back in @ a week hope to have some answer for yall then

thanks for all the help

[GNVenom]

Check the interrupter ring on your harmonic balancer. I've seen them come loose and rotate on the balancer. Also have seen where the ring slips forward on one side causing the interrupter to miss the crank sensor, causing no spark.
Also, check to see if the interrupter ring on the cam sensor has come loose. If that happens, the car will start...sometimes. Then you'll have stumbling and hesitation you can't believe. Both sensors play into the startup ignition timing and fuel timing. The default startup timing is 15 deg. BTDC, so the car will start normally as long as the sensors are right. Kicking back during startup is an indication of fuel timing out of whack, or spark at all the wrong places.
Just for grins, make sure your plug wires are in the right place. they should line up with the embossed location on the top of the coil pack. Look www.casperselectronics.com
HERE for information on how the coil module is routed. DOUBLE-CHECK the wiring!

-John Spina

www.gnspyder.com

[Dan Thompson]

Since I connected my CCCI to the coil pack wrong the first time and the car would not start, but I had both spark and fuel.

Since the ignition module has the cable connectors to the ECM and faces the DS and the coil pack has the EVEN number coil plugs face the front of the car it becomes a no-brainer.

Near the coil pak 4 plug connector the ign module yellow wire connects

Near the coil pak 2 plug connector the ign module green wire connects

Near the coil pak 6 plug connector the ign module blue/black wire connects

Maybe this makes some sense

HTH

[LC2 ROD]

Just a bacic question, have you tested all your grounds? The ones behind the passenger head by the firewall.

[gnsrule]

Just a quick update on mine, Once again I pinned out a few wires on the oem harness, cam +, cam lo, crank hi, esc, bypass, etc. I also put in Johns splice kit. No luck yet tho. Only runs on the 1 coil/module. We'll keep picking away at it tho.
For the engine runnin like ****, I backed the rockers off to .005 clearance and it runs great. Im swaping in a set of lifters as we speak, should have it running again tonite.

[onebadv6]

Ok I think it has been 2 weeks now and I have invented a few new bad words

I HAVE REPLACED EVERY DAMN THING

ign module 4 times, ign module connecter, ecm, crank sensor, the cam still checks good, maf sensor, I put my old stock chip in for the hell of it and nothing

I have ohmed out every damn wire going and coming for all sensor

I still think it is the ign module it will fire but its like it is out of time

kicking back on the starter and back firing

I have no idea what elese to do

is there any one that lives around the upstate of SC that could help with this problem or any that I could call

thanks for all the help
one hell of a learning experience

[ChrisCairns]

Textbook symptoms of a bad cam sensor or being off by one cylinder. Pay attention to #10 in the following write-up by Tom Chou.

http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/ecms...ensor_FAQ.html

[onebadv6]

I never moved the cam shaft sensor

and why will it run on one ign module and back fire on the others

keep digging I will try any thing

thanks

[onebadv6]

I checked the ring on the crank/pully and it was tight and no signs of slipping I have a new crank sensor and it checks ok what elese would cause this problem

from previous post

Ok I think it has been 2 weeks now and I have invented a few new bad words

I HAVE REPLACED EVERY DAMN THING

ign module 4 times, ign module connecter, ecm, crank sensor, the cam still checks good, maf sensor, I put my old stock chip in for the hell of it and nothing

I have ohmed out every damn wire going and coming for all sensor

I still think it is the ign module it will fire but its like it is out of time

kicking back on the starter and back firing

I have no idea what elese to do

is there any one that lives around the upstate of SC that could help with this problem or any that I could call

[gnsrule]

Just a quick update on my POS. On the 86 it will run on 2 different new coil/modules and the 87 will run on the original(replaced 2 years ago). But NEITHER car will run with the other cars ignition.
If I dont figure this out, I think i'll switch to a crack habbit..Its gotta be cheaper.