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| Engine Tech Buick V6 Engine Tech forum. 109's, SG Blocks, Stage I, Stage II, etc... |
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How much cam are you 9-sec 109 guys using ?
Obviously a solid roller is the way to go for max performance... but since I will still be driving my car on the street occasionally, I plan to keep a hyd roller in it. I've run solid rollers on some wild Chevy big blocks in the past, so a solid roller isn't *entirely* out of the question.
My question is... how much is too much ? I was thinking about pulling the 214/214 out and replacing it with something around 220-230 @ .050. Future plans include a TH400 and loose converter... so don't entirely gage your response by what my sig says. Sofar, I've got the 70GTQ installed, along with a set of 83's... A front mount IC is on the way and Eric is burning me a C16 chip for this combo.
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'87 GN... RJC girdled 109, +.020 Diamond pistons, K1 rods, Cat crank, RJC alum pulleys, T/A heads, Champion intake,plenum and fuel rails, 1.55 TA rockers, 70mm Accufab, 214/214-.548/.548 Comp hyd roller, Comp 26120 beehives, 70GTQ, 83lb injectors, A1000 pump, MagnaFuel regulator, 15gal aluminum cell, Razors Alky kit, NOS 100hp nitrous system, GN1 FMIC, LS1 MAF & translator, TurboTweak 6.0 chip, Powerlogger, LM-1 Wideband O2, 3" THDP, ATR Pitbull exhaust, TH400 w/brake, 9.5" PTC, Dynotech 3.5" alum driveshaft.
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Dan He who dies with the most toys, is still nonetheless dead ![]() 86/87 GN and 89 TTA .. tons of parts !! Stuff has to go !!! email ttastage2@yahoo.com |
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214/214 will get you there. I had a 212/212 flat tappet and went 10.20 @ 131mph with a loose converter and bad sixty foots. I know it could have ran in the 9's with a better match up with my converter selection, but pulled the cam and went hydr roller 218/224 and tightened up my converter to actually see my first 9 sec slip. 210/210 hydr roller will also get the job done.
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Mike Ricketts ![]() DLS ENGINE DEVELOPMENT 886 E 900N, Wheatfeild, IN, 46392 219-956-3653 HARTLINE PERFORMANCE 321-722-1563 My Track passes http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKEIyppgOr0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SqbYtfQn8c |
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'87 GN... RJC girdled 109, +.020 Diamond pistons, K1 rods, Cat crank, RJC alum pulleys, T/A heads, Champion intake,plenum and fuel rails, 1.55 TA rockers, 70mm Accufab, 214/214-.548/.548 Comp hyd roller, Comp 26120 beehives, 70GTQ, 83lb injectors, A1000 pump, MagnaFuel regulator, 15gal aluminum cell, Razors Alky kit, NOS 100hp nitrous system, GN1 FMIC, LS1 MAF & translator, TurboTweak 6.0 chip, Powerlogger, LM-1 Wideband O2, 3" THDP, ATR Pitbull exhaust, TH400 w/brake, 9.5" PTC, Dynotech 3.5" alum driveshaft.
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I would not remove the 214/214 out of it. I went 9.98 with that cam and a very loose converter. With a PTC converter the car could have easily run some 9.70s.
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http://community.webshots.com/user/10secv6 ![]() 1987 Buick Grand National 8.96 @ 167 MPH Dart 400ci SBC, PTE106, PTE 2000 liquid IC, PTC Powerglide and converter FAST XFI Dyno Tune by Cal Hartline 1987 Buick Grand National PT60-57 Billet, 42.5 injectors,3 in DP w/EXT Gate12.70 @ 113 |
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actually it didn't really idle that bad.. we had the motor in her old WE4 that we used as a winter beater
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Dan He who dies with the most toys, is still nonetheless dead ![]() 86/87 GN and 89 TTA .. tons of parts !! Stuff has to go !!! email ttastage2@yahoo.com |
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If you really want the right cam for your combo call Dan at DLS and have one ground for your combo. You don't need big cams to go mid 9's.
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86 GN 240" stageII on-center, gen7 DFI, 95# injectors, 76GTQ turbo, 400 turbo with brake. 9.41 at 141, 1.29 60' Former TSE car. Not classy enough for TSE . New combo 260" stage II on-center, gen7DFI,95# injectors, 76GTQ 3 bolt,400 turbo. Best et 9.27. Best 60' 1.27. TSM combo. Stock stroke 109, GN1 heads, 70 GTQ. 9.55 @ 142 , 1.32 60' TSM runner up Norwalk 2008 9.48 @ 141 junkyard motor TSM runner up Columbus 2008 9.61 TSM winner Osceola 2008 9.65 New best TSM combo 9.28 @ 150.44 http://s52.photobucket.com/albums/g37/86grandnational/? http://wrightstuffsquadron.com/ |
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Imo if your building a stock block you should build around a hydraulic and keep the rpm down to help keep the bottom end alive. If your dead set on a solid you could use a set of solid lifters on a hydraulic build and set the lash tight. If you built tangential 4 bolted and steel rotating assembly you should be able to run a moderate hydraulic roller and run 9.50-9.6 with it reliably. You really need to pick a turbo that will perform around the boost and engine speed you will be running. Then the torque converter has to be a perfect match. Any one of the things i mentioned left out and the car will be a turd like a lot of the ones on this board based on the parts in the sig. Dont ever try to "grow" into a turbo, torque converter, or cam. Anyone of those mis-selected and it will hurt performance a bunch at those intended power levels. Its always better to be a little smaller and work it harder than go too big and try to catch up with the rest of the build.
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www.ottosperformance.com |
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I totaly agree! Nick,
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FAST COMPANY PERFORMANCE 732-814-8227 http://www.turbotweak.com ![]() MAGNA club member |
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OK...
NOW that the motor is out of the car and apart for head repairs... Does that change anyone's camshaft opinion ? I understand that it wouldn't make sense to go to any effort to change it, if the motor was in the car and running... but now that it's out of the car, the temptation to fool with it is pretty severe. And FWIW... I don't want to "just dip into the 9's", I want to go high 9's on a bad day. ![]() Nick, I assume you picked this cam with Jim's needs in mind.... I'd like to take this car to the next level if possible.
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'87 GN... RJC girdled 109, +.020 Diamond pistons, K1 rods, Cat crank, RJC alum pulleys, T/A heads, Champion intake,plenum and fuel rails, 1.55 TA rockers, 70mm Accufab, 214/214-.548/.548 Comp hyd roller, Comp 26120 beehives, 70GTQ, 83lb injectors, A1000 pump, MagnaFuel regulator, 15gal aluminum cell, Razors Alky kit, NOS 100hp nitrous system, GN1 FMIC, LS1 MAF & translator, TurboTweak 6.0 chip, Powerlogger, LM-1 Wideband O2, 3" THDP, ATR Pitbull exhaust, TH400 w/brake, 9.5" PTC, Dynotech 3.5" alum driveshaft.
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Those are the numbers that I 'sorta had in mind.
The shortblock is pretty stout... so I'm not worried about RPM's too much. I'm even tossing around the idea of switching to a solid roller... My biggest concern is keeping head gaskets on it.
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'87 GN... RJC girdled 109, +.020 Diamond pistons, K1 rods, Cat crank, RJC alum pulleys, T/A heads, Champion intake,plenum and fuel rails, 1.55 TA rockers, 70mm Accufab, 214/214-.548/.548 Comp hyd roller, Comp 26120 beehives, 70GTQ, 83lb injectors, A1000 pump, MagnaFuel regulator, 15gal aluminum cell, Razors Alky kit, NOS 100hp nitrous system, GN1 FMIC, LS1 MAF & translator, TurboTweak 6.0 chip, Powerlogger, LM-1 Wideband O2, 3" THDP, ATR Pitbull exhaust, TH400 w/brake, 9.5" PTC, Dynotech 3.5" alum driveshaft.
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If you pick a 6400 RPM cam.... make sure everything else is going to be happy at 6400 RPM's.... heads and converter mainly..... like Bison said... it is a match set.... and IMHO... if you do pick all the stuff for 6400 RPM.... and only shift at 5300 RPM..... you just wasted time and money. HTH
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1987 GN Just coming out of a coma.... N/A 109 block bored .030 over with head studs, main studs #2 and #3 billet main caps, cometics, TRW forged .030 over slugs with hastings moly rings, ported stock heads with stainless valves, RJC FMIC, T&D 1.65 roller rockers, Comp Custom Ground Hydraulic Roller 218/218@.050 .590/.573 (with 1.65 rockers), champion ported intake, Hemco stock appearing doghouse, 60# injectors, PT70 P-trim turbo with H comp. housing, 3" TH DP with test pipe and hooker cat back, Walbro 340 pump, Razor's Alky, TT Chip, 3-1/2" MAF pipe with Big Mouth CA Kit and LS1 MAF, Translator.... yada yada New times soon. (1/8) 8.002 @ 86 mph 12.650 @ 106 mph with a 1.71 60' time with the stock turbo/dutt neck intercooler (best mph was 107.69 mph) |
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Well, lemme put it to ya this way... I'm either going to max out this little 231 and scream the pi$$ out of it, or I'm 'gonna sell it off and turbo the small block chevy motor I have here in the garage. I've built countless Chevy motors, some running low-8's... but never tweaked a Buick motor beyond simple bolt-ons and high-10's. This is where I need some decision-making assistance. I keep seeing these TSM/TSO times, and I want to know what these guys are doing... to go 140mph+ in 1320ft. Hell, if it's super-secret-squirrel combos, just PM me some ideas. I'm not running in any of those races... ever. Just a nice quick, stock looking GN is all I'm after... and 10's ain't gonna cut it.
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'87 GN... RJC girdled 109, +.020 Diamond pistons, K1 rods, Cat crank, RJC alum pulleys, T/A heads, Champion intake,plenum and fuel rails, 1.55 TA rockers, 70mm Accufab, 214/214-.548/.548 Comp hyd roller, Comp 26120 beehives, 70GTQ, 83lb injectors, A1000 pump, MagnaFuel regulator, 15gal aluminum cell, Razors Alky kit, NOS 100hp nitrous system, GN1 FMIC, LS1 MAF & translator, TurboTweak 6.0 chip, Powerlogger, LM-1 Wideband O2, 3" THDP, ATR Pitbull exhaust, TH400 w/brake, 9.5" PTC, Dynotech 3.5" alum driveshaft.
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Here is your best bet!!!
You can reach Dan at 219-956-3653 or dlsengine@hotmail.com He is building and selling many of the TSM/TSO set ups you hear about. Good Luck! Jason AffordableGN
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87 GN Astroroof No Cage 10.29 @ 127 mph with air and a 200r4. |
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Thanks for the suggestions fellas...
I've swapped a few emails with DLS Dan recently... picking his brain. We are working on something... I also just called Comp Cams and had them email me the specs on my current cam. Apparently it was a custom grind, so no info was available on the website. They had to look it up over the phone. It looks pretty nice... and may just stay in the motor unless Dan suggests otherwise. ![]() Edit to add... After looking at the cam card, Dan said leave it in the motor...
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'87 GN... RJC girdled 109, +.020 Diamond pistons, K1 rods, Cat crank, RJC alum pulleys, T/A heads, Champion intake,plenum and fuel rails, 1.55 TA rockers, 70mm Accufab, 214/214-.548/.548 Comp hyd roller, Comp 26120 beehives, 70GTQ, 83lb injectors, A1000 pump, MagnaFuel regulator, 15gal aluminum cell, Razors Alky kit, NOS 100hp nitrous system, GN1 FMIC, LS1 MAF & translator, TurboTweak 6.0 chip, Powerlogger, LM-1 Wideband O2, 3" THDP, ATR Pitbull exhaust, TH400 w/brake, 9.5" PTC, Dynotech 3.5" alum driveshaft.
Last edited by yullose; June 24th, 2009 at 06:57 PM. |
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No idea who it was I talked to there... I just gave him the numbers off the back of my cam and he emailed me the specs for it... The cam was already in the car when I bought it... but I had no card with it... so I was unsure exactly what it was.
Now that I know what cam I have... I will leave it in the motor. It was obviously a good choice to begin with. All opinions sofar, including Dan at DLS is that it's plenty to go 9.50's-9.70's @ 135-140mph. It's just one less thing I need to buy to go back together and get running again.
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'87 GN... RJC girdled 109, +.020 Diamond pistons, K1 rods, Cat crank, RJC alum pulleys, T/A heads, Champion intake,plenum and fuel rails, 1.55 TA rockers, 70mm Accufab, 214/214-.548/.548 Comp hyd roller, Comp 26120 beehives, 70GTQ, 83lb injectors, A1000 pump, MagnaFuel regulator, 15gal aluminum cell, Razors Alky kit, NOS 100hp nitrous system, GN1 FMIC, LS1 MAF & translator, TurboTweak 6.0 chip, Powerlogger, LM-1 Wideband O2, 3" THDP, ATR Pitbull exhaust, TH400 w/brake, 9.5" PTC, Dynotech 3.5" alum driveshaft.
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