Flat tappet cam solution

[scot w.]

This info right from Comp Cams...... as of 11/20/08

PRO PLASMA - The cure for flat tappet camshift worries!

Comp cams has once again proven their leadership by pioneering the use of Pulsed Plasma Nitriding to solve today's flat tappet camshaft durability concerns - A process we've named "Pro Plasma" Nitriding. This proprietary process is performed completly in-house with the most advanced equipment available & extensive testing has Confirmed a 100% increase in surface hardness and lubricity for improved durability.


What is Pro Plasma Nitriding?

Pro Plasma is a patended, 36 hour Nitriding process that uses pulsed nitrogen plasma, in a vacuum controlled inviroment, to embed chains of nitrogen ions into the camshaft surface approximately .008"-.010" deep. This newly fortified outer layer (Not a coating or polish) strengthens the cam shafts lobe surface 100%, reducing the chance of premature lobe wear during the critical initial break-in procedure and well beyond! No shine, Just a proven solution!


Why should you add this process to your next flat tappet camshaft?

Simply put - Peace of mind! The always tightening EPA restrictions on modern motor oils have led to a drastic decrease of key oil additives, which are essential for propper lifter rotation in flat tappet valve trains. Without them, the probability of premature lobe wear, lifter seizure or even complete failure greatly increases. Comp cams Pro Plasma Nitriding is a permanent solution for flat tappet issues! It not only strengthens the contact area between the camshaft lobe and lifter but also increases the surface lubricity through reduced friction.

See a Tech bulletin on Pro Plasma Nitriding-

http://www.compcams.com/information/.../Files/255.pdf

Watch a Video of the process.- Power Performance TV : COMP Cams Pro Plasma Nitriding Service


Scot W.

[Quick6'n'-K.C.]

Chris at comp cams want to send me a cam to test for them?

So is there a warranty or guarantee that the lobes wont go flat?

BW

[scot w.]

Originally Posted by Quick6'n'-K.C.

So is there a warranty or guarantee that the lobes wont go flat?

BW

I guess that would be a question for your buddy wanting you to test the cam out!!

Scot W.

[Quick6'n'-K.C.]

Oh wait, no warranty on race car products...

At least this is a step forward to address a issue at hand, i think running diesel engine oil pretty much has resolved my issues.

Thanks for the link,.... time will tell if it works or not..

BW

[scot w.]

Originally Posted by Quick6'n'-K.C.

Oh wait, no warranty on race car products...

At least this is a step forward to address a issue at hand, i think running diesel engine oil pretty much has resolved my issues.

Thanks for the link,.... time will tell if it works or not..

BW

There is one thing for sure and two things for certian, This process definetly adds to the durability & longevity of the flat tappet camshafts! The combination of running diesel oil and this process will add to more life out of the flat tappet camshafts...

Can't hurt!

I will be buying a 208/208 Pro Plasma Nitrided flat tappet camshaft for my next build sitting in my garage..

Scot W.

[bison]

Like they re-invented the wheel . They cant even get a simple mechanical part like a hydraulic roller lifter to be consistent in QC. Then when you call them they act as if they never heard about the problem. The Comp cam you see in my sig is the last one you will ever see me use from them. This doesnt correct the engineering flaw the Buick engineers made when they mis-located the #3 exhaust either.

[challengermike]

Wasnt crane cams already offering this?

[Pablo]

You would think that a "press release" from a major company would have at least gone through a spell check.

They should be embarrassed putting that out there.

[Boost231]

great post thanks for sharing that.

[scot w.]

Originally Posted by Pablo

You would think that a "press release" from a major company would have at least gone through a spell check.

They should be embarrassed putting that out there.

Did you get the basics of it because everyone else did..

I typed that up last night right out of the magazine so I might have missed a key or two and MY spellcheck don't work, never has!


Anyway, It's not all hacked up, it still can be read and understood, If you can't for some reason read it then click the video link below and you can listen to the "Press Release"...

[Just a Six??]

Wonder if that & then a Cryo Treatment would work well together?

[whitehot1]

It sounds like CompCams is really putting an effort into resolving the wiped lobes problem so many of us have had with the flat tappet cams.

I for one give them credit for that at least.

Maybe they will try and resolve the roller lifter problem as well.

[ttypewhite]

spend the extra coin and go hyd roller. Way more reliable, very quiet, very streetable and better overall performance. Sounds like a win win to me. I have never had a issue with a flat tappet cam, but since the conversion, I will never go back.

[bison]

Originally Posted by whitehot1

Maybe they will try and resolve the roller lifter problem as well.

They arent aware there is a problem

[A2000RICH]

Originally Posted by whitehot1

It sounds like Comp Cams is really putting an effort into resolving the wiped lobes problem so many of us have had with the flat tappet cams.

I for one give them credit for that at least.

Maybe they will try and resolve the roller lifter problem as well.

Comp Cams Nitriding is merely the latest, highest tech version of a very old technology, and it does NOT address the flat tappet wear issue at its core.

Nitriding has been done to automotive parts for over 60 years using various methods; Plasma Nitriding does not result in a different type of Nitride even though the process is much more controllable than older, cruder methods.

GM certainly has employed different forms of case hardening, including both Nitriding and CarboNitriding (the type GM used was called Tufftriding) when it deems the process applicable. Neither is magic, they are well established metallurgical techniques with pros and cons.

Both processes create a harder surface by creating a thin hardened "case" around the part. This hardened surface is also more brittle, and the core of the part is left in a more ductile state to provide toughness.

Crankshaft journals, many of which are case hardened, operate in a hydrodynamic lubrication mode, where there is ZERO design contact between the journal and bearing insert, so the case hardening sees little wear.

Flat Tappet camshaft lobes only operate in hydrodynamic lubrication mode on the base circle. Once the lifter foot begins to climb the leading ramp, the film rapidly displaces and the lubrication moves into an ElastoHydrodynamic mode, and then in high-performance engines, into a Full Boundary lubrication mode. In this mode the oil film is thinner than the surface roughness and contact WILL occur. This is the lubrication mode which calls for ZDDP.

Camshafts have been case hardened using various methods for a very long time. There is an optimum hardness which does not make the surface too brittle, so harder is definitely not better.

The cam lobe is a flat surfaced, tapered arch, and the lifter foot is spherical, so they touch at a very small point. Under load the metal deforms to spread the contact to a level below the rupture pressure of the metal. If the lifter and cam are both excessively hardened, the resulting surfaces will not easily deform to spread the contact pressure, which is REQUIRED in an ElastoHydrodynamic lubrication mode. This is what the "Elasto" in the name means. If all of the pressure is concentrated on a single point the hardened, brittle metal will fracture in a failure mode called "spalling". Once this happens the surface will self-destruct.

Virtually all camshafts over the years, despite having case hardening have needed ZDDP as an antiwear agent, why? This is because it does not matter how the surfaces are hardened, without a sacrificial antiwear film to take the sliding wear; the surfaces themselves will take the wear. This means that ANY case hardening will not last long without a sacrificial antiwear film. The Comp Cams treatment, while high-tech, and arguably better quality, does not address or solve the problem that ZDDP has solved for years.

[A2000RICH]

Originally Posted by Quick6'n'-K.C.

Oh wait, no warranty on race car products...

At least this is a step forward to address a issue at hand, i think running diesel engine oil pretty much has resolved my issues.

Thanks for the link,.... time will tell if it works or not..

BW

See my other post about the Comp Cams coating, but I don't think the diesel oil has solved your issues; it has merely helped address one aspect in a non-optimum way.

The detergent content in diesel oil is necessary to control the high combustion byproduct level found in diesel engines. Unfortunately it has a bad side-effect: the detergent competes with the ZDDP for adhesion on your cam lobes. It is why higher priced racing oils, which could be formulated a hundred different ways for the cost, severely limit the detergent content. It lowers the effectiveness of the ZDDP, and in a race engine, the detergent is not needed since the oil only sees a few hours of use before being dumped.

The two extremes of detergent use are, indeed, diesel oil and racing oil. Without detergent, oil will not control contamination, and with too much the ZDDP action is reduced. The best street oils pre-SL had the correct balance for flat-tappets, with 1400ppm of Phosphorus and a median level of detergents. You can recreate this by using a SM oil and adding ZDDP to get an adequate level.

Another aspect of the diesel oil is the lack of adequate choice of viscosity. For many high-revving engines, most diesel oils are just too viscous, and will suffer shear-induced degradation of the VI (viscosity improver) package under high load and rpms. Of course, you could just change the oil at shorter intervals, like racers who use high-viscosity oils, but that is false economy compared to using an SM oil with a ZDDP additive that gives you exactly what your engine was designed for.

Keep using diesel oil for a "TIME" and in time you will probably learn what has been discovered in millions of engines by thousands of engineers over the last several decades-------high performance gasoline engines need the right viscosity oil formulated for gasoline engines with approprate levels of detergents and ZDDP----------they differentiate gasoline and diesel oil for a reason!!!!!........................RC

[turbobob924]

new life to this post due to recent wipped cam discussion!

Hey beatav8, your thoughts?