Roller Cam Damage?

[qwic87gn]

I recently had my motor rebuilt, and decided to go with a roller setup. The motor sounded great after the first hour or so of idle time. Shortly after, it developed what I believe to be a lifter ticking. It is very noticable at idle and any rpm under 1800. I've done several valve adjustments and have been ablet to quite it, for short amount of time(5min), and then it comes back. This is a Comp kit, and I know they are known to have problems with the lifters sticking.
I'm running 20w-50 oil, in case someone asks. I have also cut open two filters now, and have seen very very little metal in both. The motor has about 4 hours runtime and 70 miles.

My question is; can you damage a roller cam, if you have a gunked up lifter? The sound is just horrible to me. I can deal with the "sewing machine" noise, but this has got to be more than what you expect a roller to sound like.

[79TurboCutlass]

I recently bought a used Comp roller out of a car that was being parted out. The motor had just been rebuilt, probably had less than 2000 miles on it. I was told that the lifters were ticking. The cam and lifters look fine- no wear. I will be installing this cam in my car in the next week or so. I'll see what happens.

[that guy]

[quote=qwic87gn;1865873]
I'm running 20w-50 oil, in case someone asks. I have also cut open two filters now, and have seen very very little metal in both. QUOTE]

How are you cutting the filter open? If you arent using a filter cutter, you will see metal. Any metal in your filter is a bad thing. Sounds to me like you need to talk to the engine builder.

[wickedtt]

does it sound like one or two lifters or are all of them making the same loud noise?

[steveX]

If you are running a billet roller cam, it is not likely to damage the lobes. the push rod will must likely bent. Why are you running 20-50 on a new rebuild motor?. this motor should see a 10-30 weight oil, with a new revise timing/oil pump with larger gear`s.

I am currently working and gerotor type oil pump like you will find in the 3800 buick timing cover.
the buick 3.8 and 3800 crankshaft feature the same crank snout. even the crank gear which drive the camshaft and the gerotor oil pump gear from the 3800 crank will fit the 3.8 crank snout.

[qwic87gn]

It sounds like one or possibly 2 on the same cyl. I used a pipe cutter to get through the filter case. I seriously doubt that much of what I saw was anything but ring/wall material. The builder saw the first filter I cut open, and wasn't worried in the slightest. He said that you will see very little on the first and possilby the second oil change, after that there shouldn't be any. The reason for 20w-50, is because that is what the builder told me to use. I'm running a high volume pump with a stock cover. The oil pressure at cold idle-80psi, warm-50psi.

[BadAssGN]

Originally Posted by qwic87gn

It sounds like one or possibly 2 on the same cyl. I used a pipe cutter to get through the filter case. I seriously doubt that much of what I saw was anything but ring/wall material. The builder saw the first filter I cut open, and wasn't worried in the slightest. He said that you will see very little on the first and possilby the second oil change, after that there shouldn't be any. The reason for 20w-50, is because that is what the builder told me to use. I'm running a high volume pump with a stock cover. The oil pressure at cold idle-80psi, warm-50psi.

First of all. thats too much oil pressure, and the high volume oil pump with thick oil is a big no no. your cam sensor runs the oil pump and you are going to see a gear failure in the very near future.

as for the cam issue, assuming this is a hydraulic roller, what were your preload measurements? were the proper lenth pushrods used?

I hope your builder didn't just throw it together...

Any head work done? after market valves?

[GSTOY]

+1 on the oil especially on a new/rebuilt engine, 20-50 is way too thick and WILL eventualy wipe out the cam sensor gear. I'd be interested as to why the engine builder would recommend going that thick on a rebuilt motor unless the clearances are way loose.

Steve

[Big Turbo Scott]

You need to get that oil out first! 50psi warm idle pressure?! Were the lifters cleaned internally before the install? I cleaned mine and had alot of black crud come out. That may be an issue. Also, are you running roller rockers? My rockers are very loud (T&D)and one hole is louder than the rest. Does the car miss when the ticking is present esp off of idle? If the ticking is excessive I would pull out the lifters, dissamble and clean them, and reinstall with the correct plunger depth.

Scott

[Nasty]

I have yet to fire my new engine, Anderson told me to use 20w50...thats whats in it and plan to do as he says. I wonder why the discrepency's? I am sure the clearances are a factor...maybe some of the builders can chime in.

[qwic87gn]

Okay, I went and looked again at the warm idle oil pressure, it is at 42-43psi. The mains are clearanced .002, rods are .0018. Yes it is a hydraulic roller. The lifters were cleaned and sat in oil for over 24 hours. I don't detect a miss. Yes, T&D roller rockers(1.65) are what is in it, but I don't believe they are the cause of the sound. I would think I would hear the other side making the same noise...

Heads are iron, that have lots of work done, but nothing other than valve and spring replacement for this new build.

[IrvJr]

I had a Comps roller set up and it ticked a little, but when i put the T&D's in it got a little louder. But i had no issues.

[BadAssGN]

Originally Posted by qwic87gn

Okay, I went and looked again at the warm idle oil pressure, it is at 42-43psi. The mains are clearanced .002, rods are .0018. Yes it is a hydraulic roller. The lifters were cleaned and sat in oil for over 24 hours. I don't detect a miss. Yes, T&D roller rockers(1.65) are what is in it, but I don't believe they are the cause of the sound. I would think I would hear the other side making the same noise...

Heads are iron, that have lots of work done, but nothing other than valve and spring replacement for this new build.

Very possible you have lifter issues. How were they cleaned? were they disassembled? I doubt it. it's not easy to take those apart.

Your oil pressure is to high, you are going to have problems.
the gear on the cam sensor is working beyond its intended limits right now.

[bison]

I soak comps lifters in laquer thinner and blow hem out with compressed air. I verify plunger action before installing them. Soak them for 2 days.

[Trbobuick]

What lifters....comp r's or regular comps ?

[bison]

Originally Posted by Trbobuick

What lifters....comp r's or regular comps ?

853's and 881's. What others are there?

[qwic87gn]

Mine are the 853's. Okay, I pulled the cam sensor to inspect for any wear, and of course there was "some". Anytime you change one mating surface(cam gear in this case), there is going to be some noticable wear. I also, checked which spring was installed on the oil pump, thinking that it may have the highest pressure one... wrong it was low pressure spring. So, I cut a couple coils from the spring, and am now sitting at 30psi warm. The original motor had very close to that same figure, so I would assume the cam sensor will survive that. The ticking also seems to have lessened after cutting the spring. I'm going to do another valve adjustment, and see what I get.
Thanks for the help, so far.