fwd roller and non roller cam parts in gn motor w/pictures

[Skids]

As long as the base circle of the aftermarket cam used is equal to, or slightly smaller than the stock cam........it looks like these lifters will work very well. See the attached pictures.......

Both pics show where the lifters would sit riding on the same base circle cam. <The lifters were not moved in the second photo> If you look at the tapered feed area of both the stock lifter and the roller, you'll see that the area that sees oil pressure is larger on the roller.......which is good. The potential problem with oil feed cut off is at max lift, because the top of the supply hole could go below the bottom of the tapered feed area (I'm using a Comp Cams 206/206 .498)...........because of the larger feed area on the roller, and the smaller base circle of the aftermarket cam.......this is not a problem at all with this cam.........it may be with a much higher lift cam than the CC258HR....but then you're likely going with a kit with the behive springs, lifters, ect, anyway. I honestly don't see a problem with a higher lift cam either way..........the oil pressure would only cut off for a relatively short duration at max lift.....the lifter would see oil pressure most of the time.......it would be absolutely impossible for them to bleed down that fast. Can an expert builder chime in and clarify this???? Anyway, it looks like they're going to work very well with my cam. Cheers.

P.S. The rollers are NOT noticably heavier than the stockers.

[joe_schindler]

The problem is; the base circle is smaller on the roller (usually) and the lifter will sit lower in the bore. It won't be like in the picture; the roller lifter will be slightly lower relative to the flat lifter. If the top of the lifter drops below the top of the oil feed in the block; you rupture the system and bleed the system. This is why the Crane and Comp Cams lifter sets are so goofy for the Buick V6.

[Jeasen]

According to my inexpensive calipers the base circle diameter of a stock or stock replacement camshaft is 1.234. I hope this helps.
Jeasen

[Walt03]

Will the oil hole, lifter indentaation and lifter travel be DIFFERENT on other V-6 60* roller lifters? These are from the 3.1 so I'm wondering if the same layout configuration will be the same or different on 2.8, etc.

Walt

[Blazer406]

Originally Posted by Walt03

Will the oil hole, lifter indentaation and lifter travel be DIFFERENT on other V-6 60* roller lifters? These are from the 3.1 so I'm wondering if the same layout configuration will be the same or different on 2.8, etc.

Walt

As best I can tell.... the 60 deg v6 lifters are all the same.... 2.8... 3.1.... 3.4. When I look online at one of the parts houses (like advance auto parts) websites.... and look at the different years... and different displacements of the 60 deg v6's that got hyd roller lifters.... they all are the same part number....

Maybe the newest motors (2000's vintage) might possibly be different?

[Skids]

Originally Posted by joe_schindler

The problem is; the base circle is smaller on the roller (usually) and the lifter will sit lower in the bore. It won't be like in the picture; the roller lifter will be slightly lower relative to the flat lifter. If the top of the lifter drops below the top of the oil feed in the block; you rupture the system and bleed the system. This is why the Crane and Comp Cams lifter sets are so goofy for the Buick V6.

This is absolutely not a problem with these lifters. There is no possibility of the lifter dropping below the oil feed hole in the 109 block with the Comp Cam 258HR. In fact it's not even close. Take one of these lifters, put it in the block, and look at the location of the feed hole in relation to the lifter.........and you will see exactly what I mean. Cheers.

P.S. In fact, after reviewing the specifications to the 1000th of an inch and carefully reviewing the exact location of both top and botton of the oil feed hole in relation to the tapered feed area of the lifter with the Comp Cam I am using, I'm confident these lifters will work very well, and I'm now moving on to the topic of push-rod length.

[shaggy]

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[power6usa]

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[FJM568]

Originally Posted by Skids

I stuck with the Comp Cams 258HR ($250ish) because it has good drivability, generally kicks a$$, works with the stock replacement timing chain, works with the cam sensor, will work with 980 valve springs (no beehive springs needed) and stock valves.........it's a no-brainer. The lifters were 50 cents each from an auto wrecker (either clean them yourself or have someone who knows what they're doing do it........AND make sure th

Are you sure you can use the 980 valve springs with a roller cam??? I thought that you had to use a WAY stiffer valve spring with roller cams...

And for curiousity sake, where did you get the Comp Cam 258HR came at??? Do most of the GN/TR vendors carry it???

[Blazer406]

Originally Posted by FJM568

Are you sure you can use the 980 valve springs with a roller cam??? I thought that you had to use a WAY stiffer valve spring with roller cams...

And for curiousity sake, where did you get the Comp Cam 258HR came at??? Do most of the GN/TR vendors carry it???

I agree... 980's are flat tappet springs. I am under the impression you need around 135# on the seat or so..... 980's should be in the 100# range on the seat....... not nearly enough seat pressure IMHO for even a baby hydraulic roller.

[87 turbo buggy]

Originally Posted by 87buickracer

I know one person who is working on fabricating the fwd roller cam to fit the gn motors.still in testing phase.

been using then on 4.1 with 3800 heads and intake, in my buggies for a while now. use the g-rotor oil cover/ convert also. no low oil pressure when hot.

[87 turbo buggy]

Originally Posted by 87buickracer

Iwill give you a call.

did I understand that YOU installed USED and cleaned lifters on a different cam. a Comp. being no statement of refacing the face of the lifter, and a statement of putting rollers on a standard cam. I have a few muffler bearings i need cut and spun in a lathe? take pay-pal
matt

[larry33kc]

Ttt

[Blazer406]

Update on my HR conversion project.

My motor is ready to be installed..... I have my tranny torn apart and I am in the process of beefing up a few components.... hopefully to be going back in the car within the next few weeks.

[old_coot]

I am on the verge of starting the assembly of my engine also--its taken a long time to assemble the parts because its suck a bastard combination---a 4.1 block with a stroker crank, Carillo H-beams, Diamond pistons and adapting the 3800 heads and g-rotor oil pump, block girdle and roller cam and lifters---obviously many parts are being custom built so its not quick (or cheap), and I have yet to decide for sure if I am going to be going with one BIG turbo or two smaller ones but I am leaning towards the two smaller ones to keep it more drivable on the street---we should soon see what our labors have yielded.....................Dan

[mikestertwo]

It looks like there are a few of us working on this project I'm waiting for my block to come back from the machine shop. I will be using a custom ground 206/206 Comp roller cam with Champion iron heads. I will post pictures when I get the long block assembled.

[hrhoward]

Alright, I am seriously considering doing this project. My engine and transmission are out of the car right now because of the trans.
If I understand this right this is what I need;

Originally Posted by Skids

The lifters out of a 1995 Chev Lumina 3.1L V-6 measure .842" wide and 2.228" high. The stock lifters are .842" wide by 2.005" high. When used with a Comp Cams 258HR (ductile iron) specs. 206/206 .498 lift, 110 LSA ......there is lots of ramp-up clearance (where the roller touches the cam,) lots of shoulder clearance top at max lift (.160" to be exact....... so the shoulder doesn't hit the dog-bones) and bottom or base circle ( .115" above flush deck....for the dog-bone retainers to stay in place) Use the retainer and bones out of a 1986 Vin "3" 3.8 roller block as shown in the photo's above (personally I would shorten the length of the spacer a little to put a little more pressure on the dog bones, but only about .200" inch less than the 1.00" suggested, you don't want too much pressure on them either)...........the only thing left to get are pushrods.

This would be Wonderful!!! I am really concerned about wiping a cam with the recent changes in the properties of motor oils. Yes I know, there are additives that address this but for the money required for this mod, and having the engine out, why not???

Skids, have you fugued out what length the push-rods need to be yet?

Thanks fellas!!!!