Why have E85 when you can have E98!! - Page 2

Smokey1226 · #36 (**permalink**) August 16th, 2008, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bsdlinux

Guys what is all the talk about E-85 being a crap shoot?? I haven't seen this at all here in Texas. I've logged over 20,000 miles on my car with this stuff be it straight E-85 or a mixture of it with 87 or 93. My BLMs are always where they should be depending on the mixture I'm running..always.

I know when I was talking to Eric with TT he was getting E70-E75 in the winter months but thats to be expected to help with cold starts.

I remember reading that 93 isn't all that accurate either. Even if the E-85 is shifting a few percent in my case it matters not and I would guess in most situations it would have any real implications, unless we are talking about a RACE car running on the edge.

If I had a True race car, it would be converted to run straight Meth and be done with it

But I am tossing the idea around that running E-98 in the GN might be a good thing

I'll probably have to get it shipped from Houston

A couple great points here, again owning a gas station i def know that the 93 sometimes isnt 93. What i mean is, after you become friends with your tanker drivers/Tanker Company ect ect you get to hear some crazy stories. And with being near the milwaukee area....

Lets just say the farther you go into the city the more you play a crap shoot with the quailty of fuel your getting. I've seen motors built for 93 pump gas, end up nukeing because they needed gas stoped at a little dinky place and the fuel wasnt fresh! So with that i will agree.

Also, on the part about Meth.....for the price and the power you get from it its amazing stuff. But with Meth being a huge amount more corrosive than E98, i wouldnt even bother. Unless you had a 2000hp 10.5 car that would be tore down multiple times a year. E98 is a great substitue for racers who like to race on weekends and play on the streets. You wouldnt want to run Meth on the streets!

86SS86LS · #37 (**permalink**) August 16th, 2008, 08:01 PM

I'm still a little unclear on the benefits of e98 over e85 (aside from the inconsistent mixture in e85)? Members on here are running well over 25 psi without knock on e85. Why would anyone need or want to go from e85 to e98?

Smokey1226 · #38 (**permalink**) August 16th, 2008, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 86SS86LS

I'm still a little unclear on the benefits of e98 over e85 (aside from the inconsistent mixture in e85)? Members on here are running well over 25 psi without knock on e85. Why would anyone need or want to go from e85 to e98?

more power can me bad, less chance of any inconsistent mix, the overall cooling effect is going to be greater, and the price really isnt that much off eachother.

I guess it comes down to, how hard your going on your car and how much power you want to make. That 25psi could be on a 61mm turbo. Versus a guy on a 76mm turbo that same 25psi is going to want E98.

EyesofThunder · #39 (**permalink**) August 17th, 2008, 12:24 AM

Honestly, E85 is still a pump gas, consistency is what the guys at the refinery pump in to make the mix. Not sure how accurate you can make mixes when the volumes are in the hundreds or thousands of gallons.

The other thing it isn't pump gas they mix with, it is very high volatility gas they mix with. They have to try to get the RVP up, so the cars/trucks with E85 will start easily below 50F. I have had the E85 consistency seem pretty close to E85 and still start good at 25F. I watch my BLM's so if they went to E70 or so, I would know in a heartbeat.

So E98 is more closer to pure denatured alky, instead of a messy pump gas quality mix of it.

Look at race gas, consistency is good, controlled, I would bet the E98 is on par with that.

bison · #40 (**permalink**) August 17th, 2008, 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 86SS86LS

I'm still a little unclear on the benefits of e98 over e85 (aside from the inconsistent mixture in e85)? Members on here are running well over 25 psi without knock on e85. Why would anyone need or want to go from e85 to e98?

Because it has a higher detonation limit and if the engine is built around that type of fuel it will make a decent amount more power vs. E85. Research octane of 129. That says it right there. 40-45psi on top of 8.5:1 should not be a problem. It would be a problem on E85.

Smokey1226 · #41 (**permalink**) August 17th, 2008, 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EyesofThunder

Honestly, E85 is still a pump gas, consistency is what the guys at the refinery pump in to make the mix. Not sure how accurate you can make mixes when the volumes are in the hundreds or thousands of gallons.

The other thing it isn't pump gas they mix with, it is very high volatility gas they mix with. They have to try to get the RVP up, so the cars/trucks with E85 will start easily below 50F. I have had the E85 consistency seem pretty close to E85 and still start good at 25F. I watch my BLM's so if they went to E70 or so, I would know in a heartbeat.

So E98 is more closer to pure denatured alky, instead of a messy pump gas quality mix of it.

Look at race gas, consistency is good, controlled, I would bet the E98 is on par with that.

Exactly, and as far as E98 cold start i was told unless you have a sperate fuel cell with pump gas just for starts E98 wont want to start at 40*F or lower. But im not sure how many of us are going to run our cars with the temps colder than that.

MrMNTTA · #42 (**permalink**) August 21st, 2008, 09:32 AM

On a side note - there's a possibility you may have to add an additive for lubricity since there's just a fraction (2%) of gasoline in E98 compared to E85.

bsdlinux · #43 (**permalink**) August 21st, 2008, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrMNTTA

On a side note - there's a possibility you may have to add an additive for lubricity since there's just a fraction (2%) of gasoline in E98 compared to E85.

Lucas Fuel Treatment or Marvel Mystery Oil would work very well for that

EyesofThunder · #44 (**permalink**) August 22nd, 2008, 01:24 PM

Some good reading: AGE 85: Aviation Grade Ethanol - A Project Funded by The South Dakota Corn Utilization Council

I from time to time have used 1% diesel. On my 42 gallon tank in my Suburban, running 0.5-1 gallon had no ill effects whatsoever.

Diesel has a stoich of 15.x:1, and is mainly oil, so it won't hurt anything. it add lubricity and in bulk, is very cheap when compared to lucas oil or marvel.

Fuel Composition (AGE-85)
1) 80 to 90 vol% nondenatured ethanol meeting fuel grade certification specifications as described by:
ASTM D1613 (Acidity)
ASTM D512 (Chloride)
ASTM D1688 (Copper)
ASTM D5501 (Ethanol Purity)
ASTM D381 (Gum)
ASTM E1064e (Water by Karl Fischer for Ethanol)

2) 10 to 20 vol% pentane isomerate oil refinery stream (a high saturates-, low aromatics-, low olefins-content product) comprising:
25 to 35 vol% isopentane
10 to 30 vol% n-pentane
10 to 20 vol% 2-methylpentane
5 to 10 vol% 3-methylpentane
2 to 10 vol% 2,2-dimethylbutane
Up to 45 vol% other saturates
Less than 3 vol% benzene

3) 0.5 to 1.0 vol% biodiesel

4) About 6 milliliters per 100 gallons corrosion inhibitor

TheHolyCobra · #45 (**permalink**) September 2nd, 2008, 03:41 AM

Not trying to side-jack from the OP, just giving personal experience...

I purchased 165 gallons of E98 about two weeks ago for $3.09 a gallon locally from "my guy". He said next time around he should be able to get it cheaper then that because he finally got his numbers right as far as taxation, how much it cost him, etc.

And something else to fuel the fire...if enough people catch on and make it popular he said he would be able to install a large tank on site, thus buying it by the 18 wheel tanker load. That means he would be able to sell it for about $2.00 a gallon.

EyesofThunder · #46 (**permalink**) September 2nd, 2008, 09:01 AM

Maybe I need to stop by the local refinery, one is within 10 miles and see what I can get local on straight stuff. Might be lots cheaper. But going to be tougher to run in cool weather. But make for some warmer weather consistent fuel to run for sure.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheHolyCobra

Not trying to side-jack from the OP, just giving personal experience...

I purchased 165 gallons of E98 about two weeks ago for $3.09 a gallon locally from "my guy". He said next time around he should be able to get it cheaper then that because he finally got his numbers right as far as taxation, how much it cost him, etc.

And something else to fuel the fire...if enough people catch on and make it popular he said he would be able to install a large tank on site, thus buying it by the 18 wheel tanker load. That means he would be able to sell it for about $2.00 a gallon.

tom j · #47 (**permalink**) September 2nd, 2008, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheHolyCobra

Not trying to side-jack from the OP, just giving personal experience...

I purchased 165 gallons of E98 about two weeks ago for $3.09 a gallon locally from "my guy". He said next time around he should be able to get it cheaper then that because he finally got his numbers right as far as taxation, how much it cost him, etc.

And something else to fuel the fire...if enough people catch on and make it popular he said he would be able to install a large tank on site, thus buying it by the 18 wheel tanker load. That means he would be able to sell it for about $2.00 a gallon.

have you used it yet, if so how did it run

TheHolyCobra · #48 (**permalink**) September 2nd, 2008, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EyesofThunder

Maybe I need to stop by the local refinery, one is within 10 miles and see what I can get local on straight stuff. Might be lots cheaper. But going to be tougher to run in cool weather. But make for some warmer weather consistent fuel to run for sure.

I don't buy it from a local refinery, I buy it from a local oil distributor that sells gas to all the local stations. I was surprised that he said he could get ethanol, but I'm glad he can because I feel it is the next race fuel of the future. It's VERY cheap when compared to C16 and other high dollar race gas, and actually performs better from the cars I've seen run on it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tom j

have you used it yet, if so how did it run

Haven't used it yet, and this isn't on a Buick. It's on a Mustang Cobra, as you can tell from the username. But on other Cobras it has shown wonderful results...more power throughout the power band, drastically lower EGTs, and lower turbo spool time. For example...a single 88mm 4.6L 32V Cobra spooled over 1000 RPMs sooner when using E98, compared to C23.

Smokey1226 · #49 (**permalink**) September 2nd, 2008, 10:29 PM

were still working out the kinks, but probably wont bring in our first load untill spring due to not wanting it to sit over winter here in WI.

But hopefully that will give more people enough time to switch over. its a great fuel, as long as you have your fuel system sorted out!!

rmar · #50 (**permalink**) September 2nd, 2008, 10:42 PM

Guys I have been running e-85 for a while. no problems
to speak of. But a very good friend of mine builds
big time alky carbs and sends them all over the nation.
They have found that the e-85 is not very consistent,batch to batch. As of now. Thus your tune is ever changing.

FWIW.

TheHolyCobra · #51 (**permalink**) September 3rd, 2008, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rmar

Guys I have been running e-85 for a while. no problems
to speak of. But a very good friend of mine builds
big time alky carbs and sends them all over the nation.
They have found that the e-85 is not very consistent,batch to batch. As of now. Thus your tune is ever changing.

FWIW.

That's why you get drums of E98 and mix your own...it's actually cheaper that way too if you want to mix in unleaded race gas for that extra security. Electronic testers aren't that bad price wise...I picked mine up for $125. It tells me the exact ethanol content in the fluid I pour into the device.

Or you you can do it the inexpensive way. Get a 1000mL graduated cylinder, fill it up with your E85 that you buy, and let it settle. The gas and ethanol will seperate, and you will be left with 2 parts. True E85 will show 850mL of one fluid, and 150mL of the other.

mach.80 · #52 (**permalink**) September 3rd, 2008, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rmar

They have found that the e-85 is not very consistent,batch to batch. As of now. Thus your tune is ever changing.

FWIW.

I have been reading about the inconsistancy in fuels whatever it may be. With E85 switching over to E70 in the winter thats a re-tune for sure.

What do you think of this product below, for a street car around 450-500 hp at the motor. With the WBo2 will it be able to keep up witha the ever-changing variables?

An Idea; Decrease your "Hot Air Tuning Curve"

EyesofThunder · #53 (**permalink**) September 3rd, 2008, 11:23 PM

As long as you are in closed loop, don't worry about the tuning being off, the PCM will handle it just fine. I have run E85 throughout the winter with no issues, and I didn't see evidence at all that they went to anything different than E85. My fuel trims stayed close to zero all winter. I didn't run it below 25F, but down to 25F it ran fine. So I don't think they vary much past E85 at all.

You must be aware that E85 doesn't get used like gas, so it is often that summer blend will remain in the tanks in the ground well into the deep winter.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mach.80

I have been reading about the inconsistancy in fuels whatever it may be. With E85 switching over to E70 in the winter thats a re-tune for sure.

What do you think of this product below, for a street car around 450-500 hp at the motor. With the WBo2 will it be able to keep up witha the ever-changing variables?

An Idea; Decrease your "Hot Air Tuning Curve"