beginning to hate E85!

[JDEstill]

just an FYI, the word I hear from some of the oil refineries I work with is that the big money right now is not in gasoline, it's in diesel. Ethanol seems to be part of that picture, not exactly sure how, I think it has to do with less total gals of gasoline needed due to the extra gals of ethanol being blended in. Whatever the case, everyone wants to make more diesel. Diesel, diesel, diesel! They don't want to make gasoline, they want to make diesel! Dammit, give me more diesel! That's been going on for a few years now, when we ask them what specs they want to run they always come back with running the gasoline products light and shifting the heavier end (which would have been gasoline 10 years ago) down into the diesel product. Diesel prices are high, and they are trying to crank out as much as they can. Of course they are trying to get as much of all their products out there, they guys I deal with are running their plants balls to the wall, but if they can shift some gasoline over to diesel, they'll do it. Looking at diesel prices, I can't blame them for it either.

John

[jsta6]

Originally Posted by JDEstill

just an FYI, the word I hear from some of the oil refineries I work with is that the big money right now is not in gasoline, it's in diesel. Ethanol seems to be part of that picture, not exactly sure how, I think it has to do with less total gals of gasoline needed due to the extra gals of ethanol being blended in. Whatever the case, everyone wants to make more diesel. Diesel, diesel, diesel! They don't want to make gasoline, they want to make diesel! Dammit, give me more diesel! That's been going on for a few years now, when we ask them what specs they want to run they always come back with running the gasoline products light and shifting the heavier end (which would have been gasoline 10 years ago) down into the diesel product. Diesel prices are high, and they are trying to crank out as much as they can. Of course they are trying to get as much of all their products out there, they guys I deal with are running their plants balls to the wall, but if they can shift some gasoline over to diesel, they'll do it. Looking at diesel prices, I can't blame them for it either.

John

# Story Highlights
# "Clean diesel" cars getting more popular
# Analysts expect diesel sales to grow 300 percent over 10 years
# Diesel cars get better gas mileage, have lower emissions

Diesels aren't dirty anymore - CNN.com


Hot cars at Detroit Auto Show
Hot cars at Detroit Auto Show - CNN.com

[jsta6]

The Clean Energy Scam
Ethanol increases global warming, destroys forests and inflates food prices. So why are we subsidizing it?

The Clean Energy Scam - TIME

[bsdlinux]

Well thats all and good HOWEVER.. only about 7 gallons of diesel are produced from a barrel of oil verses 19 of gasoline. That ratio doesn't change. So great ......more diesel cars on the road equal even higer disel prices which is just great news for the trucking industry and anything that is shipped by them...mmm more inflation

yes Diesel is ran with ethanol or methanol mixes all the time in the diesel cars BMW, Volskwagen, etc in race course over in europe. works well and helps with the octane and clean burning characteristics.


Again whats all of this have to do in regards to running E-85 in a TR or TTA

Time to move the thread ALPHA

[MrMNTTA]

Originally Posted by jsta6

The Clean Energy Scam
Ethanol increases global warming, destroys forests and inflates food prices. So why are we subsidizing it?

The Clean Energy Scam - TIME

Agreed Linux, the thread needs to be moved.

This negative press is just flat out stupid.

Here's some FACTS:
1. We exported more corn in 2007 than in years past.
2. We produced more ethanol than ever in 2007.
3. We fed more corn to livestock in 2007 than ever, which doesn't include the feed that is fed to livestock that is produced from the corn to ethanol process.
4. We had a huge run-over of corn as ever in 2007.
5. The wheat crop in Australia (and other countries) was horrible in 2007 & 2006.
6. China & India are demanding more commodities. Food and oil.
7. The population in the world is growing.

The world population is growing, of course more land is going to be cleared to produce food worldwide.

Look what the Europeans did in Malaysia in the past two years by literally burning down rain forest solely for producing an oil producing plant and not even using the biomass as fuel to produce energy. The just started it on fire to get rid of it. That is actually a true tradgedy.

How many people in the world do you know that actually eat #2 yellow field corn?

I wish more people would use their common sense and quit believing everything they read in the media and actually do some reasearch.

I'll gladly spend my tax dollars here at home, while creating many jobs, instead of paying more over time to the Middle East.


Again, let's move this thread to the political forum.

[JDEstill]

Originally Posted by bsdlinux

Well thats all and good HOWEVER.. only about 7 gallons of diesel are produced from a barrel of oil verses 19 of gasoline. That ratio doesn't change.

Don't know where you are getting that from, but it isn't true. Every crude oil is different, and the amount of product you get from each one is different. Some crudes might have 30 gals of gasoline per barrel in them, others might have 3 gals. There is a HUGE HUGE HUGE difference between Saudi Light and Venezuelan Heavy.

John

[bsdlinux]

Originally Posted by JDEstill

Don't know where you are getting that from, but it isn't true.

My point was about the diesel.........even in a best case scenario you are looking @ 2 barrels of oil to yeild the same amount diesel vs gasoline in 1 barrel of oil.
Plenty of info on th net. They can get a lil more low sulfur diesel out maybe like 10 gallons but its still almost a 2 to 1 in gasoline's favor.

Originally Posted by JDEstill

Every crude oil is different, and the amount of product you get from each one is different. Some crudes might have 30 gals of gasoline per barrel in them, others might have 3 gals.

The ratio might be slightly different but there will always be more gas in a barrel of oil than diesel or low sulfur diesel. Chemisty has pretty much been unchanged in this area for years.

From American Petroleum Institute (API) statistics an average barrel (42 gallons) will produce 46% gasoline, 22% diesel, 10% jet fuel, 5.5% heavy fuel oil, and the remaining 16.5% would be everything else including lubricants, asphalt, petrochemical feedstocks, etc.


Generally speaking though, most crudes yield between 10% to 30% diesel and most refineries produce in this range but there can be deviations.

Bottom line is >>>>> they cannot produce more diesel than gas out of a barrel oil. More Diesel cars on road equal higher prices PERIOD

[JDEstill]

Saying that there is an average amount of gasoline or diesel in a barrel of crude is like saying there is an average hp for a car engine. Sure, the "average" is 200 hp, but if you go by that average you tend to gloss over the fact that there are 425 hp Vettes and 75 hp Neons. In reality, all those cars are different.

So, if the API wants to say there is an average amount of whatever in a bbl of crude, they can do that, and it is just as valid as saying there is an average hp.

Besides which, those "average" numbers are also a bit misleading, in the fact that not every refinery makes every product. Some refineries don't make jet fuel, and what would have been jet becomes diesel instead. So that quoted average would then be 46% gasoline and 32% diesel.

And like I mentioned before, some of the heavy end of the gasoline can be dropped down and end up in the diesel pool, which changes the ratio further.

And then we have the cracking processes, such as cat crackers, cokers, hydrocrackers, which convert the gas oils to motor fuels (since not too many folks make "fuel oil" any more, and not too many refiners make much in the way of lubes either), and so on...

Not trying to be snotty, I'm just saying that you can't make a blanket statement about there being X amount of gasoline or diesel in a barrel of oil. There isn't an easy generalization, it's more complicated than that.

I will whole heartedly concur that more diesel vehicles on the road will cause the price price of diesel to rise!

John