GN...SQ vehicle?

grocerygetter · #1 (**permalink**) October 22nd, 2005, 11:35 PM

I'm building another SQ competition car. Possibly with some sponsors help.
Question...I know Gary Biggs did an awesome job with his Regal and Speakerworks did an awesome GN back in the day that they sold to Richard Clark.... BUT...what do you think about me modding the interior in a GN? Is it going to kill the value? Should I go out of my way to take the stock pieces out and mount new stuff to the stock mounting locations?
I'm relocating the seats via brackets so that won't make any mods to the floor of the car. I'm debating on spending the cash to fab up a dash...but at the same time I'm thinking of doing a pure stealth install.
I just bought bumpers and supports to drop some weight off the car...add the spare and jack to that...what I put in stereo wise won't way as much as all of that together...so I'm not slowing the car down here.
With a GN what would you guys do? Go all out? Stealth theme? Build my civic instead?

6APPEAL · #2 (**permalink**) October 24th, 2005, 09:24 AM

Prior to buying my 1st GN I built SPL vechiles. I started building my 1st stealth installs in that GN. I have been able to get great SQ with some inpressive SQL from those systems. Won a few local contests, but don't really care from the contest scene any longer. Always seems to be a contest of who can spend the most money and have the most popular equipment instead of who sounds the best.

I've always removed and saved the factory stuff, except for one set of upper door panels that I messed up early on. I think if you take the install too far you will kill the value of the car.

Gary Biggs fabbed up a custom dash, but he does have a 12 where the AC/heater box used to be. I was able to hear the Speakerworks GN when Eric Holloway (?sp) put it together and later after Richard Clark did some modifications. The car had the factory dash. The only modifacation was to the radio location, which had a motorized door to hide the headunit. Richard Clark did make the car sound better, but at what expense? The basic design of the system did not change. The biggest change was removing the 12's in the rear side panels and changing the drivers in the horns in the dash. Richard also added the computer to control the sound stage and the servos for the gains in the amps. I have been able to talk to Richard at Nats for the past couple of years about systems in our cars. He has some good advice, but he also like to talk engineering that is over your head.

I have also been able to listen to the JL Audio GN that was built many years ago. It had very impressive sub-bass (8 10's in a 7th order iso box), but the highs would kill you. It was built back in the late 80's and used the popular at the time titanium MB Quart tweeters and PPI amps. I still have some pics of it somewhere. I have also listed to the Kenwood GN built during the same time frame. It was not a very good sounding vechile, but my god what an install. Totally awesome for the time. One of the 1st vechiles I saw that was using fiberglass. Also the 1st G-body I saw that used kick panels, but these were custom built from fiberglass. They added 600 pounds to the car with the install.
John

tommynos · #3 (**permalink**) October 24th, 2005, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grocerygetter

I'm building another SQ competition car. Possibly with some sponsors help.
Question...I know Gary Biggs did an awesome job with his Regal and Speakerworks did an awesome GN back in the day that they sold to Richard Clark.... BUT...what do you think about me modding the interior in a GN? Is it going to kill the value? Should I go out of my way to take the stock pieces out and mount new stuff to the stock mounting locations?
I'm relocating the seats via brackets so that won't make any mods to the floor of the car. I'm debating on spending the cash to fab up a dash...but at the same time I'm thinking of doing a pure stealth install.
I just bought bumpers and supports to drop some weight off the car...add the spare and jack to that...what I put in stereo wise won't way as much as all of that together...so I'm not slowing the car down here.
With a GN what would you guys do? Go all out? Stealth theme? Build my civic instead?

well i had my system done and made sure all that was put in was stealthed on the inside besides the flip up touch screen,dvd,nav...and of course the trunk

it all removes very easy and no springs were cut or holes in the back seat...just a port between the speakers,that is stealthed out too...i could have gone with fiberglass,which would have been lighter and more money too,but the material is the same as the inside and i plan on adding a turbo six embroidered logo on th top?and also adding doors on the side pannels for storage?i would do your civic,but its your car...every mod you do will be border line hoopty to the gn,but acceptable with the civic?good luck and post pics as you go...

grocerygetter · #4 (**permalink**) October 24th, 2005, 06:11 PM

my plan is to keep the stock dash in it but I will have to find some misc pieces for mine. Like the chrome strip and some clips are missing around the instrument cluster.
Rattles in this car may make me do the civic...we'll see.
Sponsor will have some say so in this as well....maybe. One won't care...don't know about the other alternatives.

GregInAtl · #5 (**permalink**) October 27th, 2005, 09:54 PM

I too am building an SQ GN, and have spoken via e-mail to Eric holdaway concerning a few details. The USD waveguides below the dash of the SW GN, did require cutting and fabbing much of the reinforcment on the dash. Look at the speaker works web site for the build up pics of the infamous GN of the Holdaways (later sold to R Clark). I actually have some wave guides and will not be using them...they have honestly been equaled in technology by conventional drivers, and since placment is half the battle, cheat. Look at Biggs car, on JBLs site at minimum, try HzEmAll.com and look at thier 82 regal, and see what the guys "in the know" are doin. Even before having the GN I had a sponsor ready to fill my car. SQ guys in traditional cars, that have experience are very few and far between these days.
good luck, post pics as its built, and I'll do the same.

grocerygetter · #6 (**permalink**) October 28th, 2005, 11:12 AM

at this point...fabbing a dash that mounts to the stock mounting points sounds like it makes sense...as well as fabbing a new console. All the original GN interior is unmolested then.
I know quite a bit about SQ but not enough...never enough. LOL.
I won USACi cons adv 0-600 last year as well as cons adv best of show at World Finals. This year I was a judge at USACi WOrld FInals. Just lettin' ya' know...I didn't want to be a sandbagger. You know the seat trick in these cars right?

GregInAtl · #7 (**permalink**) October 28th, 2005, 02:09 PM

Seat trick?! Havent heard that one yet, please tell.
I am planning on running conventional drivers front kicks, big midbass' in doors, and a pair of 15" subs free air, or possible aperiodic (prob free air though). A simple system in design, but spend all the effort in install quality, and speaker positioning. You know...

GNnPH · #8 (**permalink**) November 16th, 2005, 05:25 PM

Hey 6appeal you mentioned Kenwood and JL audio had used GN's as demo cars.. any chance you found those pics yet??

Must of retired em right before I got started attending the larger shows.

Went down to the Masters Invitational a long... time ago in Stone Mountain, GA. Got a glimpse of the Speakerworks GN as well as Holly Mungals ( didn't see much though, both were closed for the majority of the show if not all besides when it was judged).

grocerygetter · #9 (**permalink**) November 16th, 2005, 11:41 PM

seat trick:
2" in and 3" back
works great in Regals for kick panel apps.

6APPEAL · #10 (**permalink**) November 17th, 2005, 02:00 PM

I was digging around looking for some old school install pics (mid 80's - early 90's) for a buddy's shop/web site and came across the JL audio pics. I'll have to get them scanned. I cannot find the pics of the Kenwood car. The last time I saw the car was at Nats in Columbus. The guy that owned it was getting ready to remove about 400 lbs of stereo and sound deadening material from the car. I think Richard Clark is the only one who still has a car complete. I talk to Richard every year at Nats, just can't seem to convince him to bring the car. I also think I'm the only one that talks about stereos.

Grocerygetter, how do you get the seats in that position without a custom console and seats? The factory buckets touch the console in my cars. I have a few friends that work for a couple of the manufactures, so your car wouldn't be the one I've heard rumors about being factory backed?
John

GregInAtl · #11 (**permalink**) November 23rd, 2005, 10:58 AM

Anyone here still run horns under the dash? (HLCDs) I have a set of USDs I still am debating on using in mine...

6APPEAL · #12 (**permalink**) November 23rd, 2005, 01:26 PM

If I could afford the high dollar horns, I would use them. I have not heard a pair of low dollar horns that sound worth a dan#. I like the Image Dynamics CD2 comps, just can't see forking out $900 a pair. The high end USD's sound nice.
John

grocerygetter · #13 (**permalink**) November 28th, 2005, 12:49 PM

that's my problem with horns...you've got to spend some big cash and still do work to the horn bodies to get them to work well. I guess I like conventional drivers.

GregInAtl · #14 (**permalink**) November 29th, 2005, 04:09 PM

Agreed w/ both of your opinions. I used these years ago in a T-Bird SC w/ 10" vifa mid bass in each door. They sounded great then, but 6-7 years is a big jump in tech in conv drivers. I am tempted to do a good set of custom kicks holding 5.25" and tweeter, w/ 8" mid bass in each door w/ subs in the trunk as normal. I just like loud alot also, and 1 set of kick drivers may get abused at high volume. I almost need to coaxially mount 2 pair of 5.25" components on each side...
What have you guys done or seen?
GC

6APPEAL · #15 (**permalink**) November 30th, 2005, 09:05 AM

GregInAtl,
8's in the door of the door of a G-Body

? I thought my 6 1/2" took alot of work to get in. That I have to see. As far a seeing stuff built for loud with conventional drivers. A buddy of mine builds alot of SPL type vechiles. He normally puts 1 or 2 8's in each doors for mid-bass, 6 or 6 1/2's in custom kicks as mid-range and some pro series tweeters (not sure of the brand, but $$$$$$$$$!). Those things will kill you (sound like he!! to me) and are a pain to mount since they are a 3" tweeter that can take 500 - 700 watts. The guys he is building this stuff for don't care about sound quality, they just want LOUD. I plan on using Image Dynamics CXS55 Chameleon 5 ¼” tweeter components in Q-Logic Kick panels. They have held up very well in my truck. I've turned into a SQ listener over the years, but still like to attempt to break the volume knob off every once in a while.

grocerygetter,
The mystery deepens as the questions go unanswered (see my post above).

BandAid · #16 (**permalink**) December 2nd, 2005, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grocerygetter

seat trick:
2" in and 3" back
works great in Regals for kick panel apps.

YEs I too still dont understand...
please tell more..

BandAid · #17 (**permalink**) December 2nd, 2005, 07:02 PM

Sorry to change subject ,but sounds like alot of great minds here,,,so does anyone know if I can fit these in the doors,,they are a slim line style or recommend a good set for the fron for under $275...thanks Dennis

http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?...duct_ID=30 80

6APPEAL · #18 (**permalink**) December 3rd, 2005, 01:10 PM

BandAid,
You can make just about anything fit, with enough time, patience, and money. You would have to some extensive modification to the factory concert sound panel and the door panel. But I'd be willing to bet that with a speaker that thin, it will not take much of a spacer. You might also have to extend the the hole in the metal door skin, but probably not by much. The door panel hole will have to be extended back. From the looks of the woofer, I don't think you would need to extend the hole up. The concert sound panel will have to be cut in half and extended to match the size of the hole in the door panel. Some ABS would take care of that. Recover with a couple of layers of grill cloth or some acousticly transparent carpet.

If you don't want to do all that work. Get a set of kick panels and put the componets in them. They will also help the sound stage in the front of the car. You can get the kick panels from several online shops, such as here.
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-ZUo6mdN...p.asp?g=182850
HTH
John