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ATR vs. H&R sway bar?
Which do you like better and why? Thanx...
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1987 Turbo T Dark Blue Blackout Astroroof, Don Cruz Built 109, PTE Billet 71 DBB HPS T4, Forged Bottom End, 2xx/2xx Cam, RJC Girdle, TA Headers, DLS Ext. Oiling Sys., Champion GN1R, Champion Rails, PTE 95 Lb. Inj., RJC I-475 FMIC, JW Racing 3.5 DP, XFI, AMS 1000, Co2, Meriere Water Pump, RJC Pulleys, PTE Plenum, Accufab 70 TB, Tial 44 WG, Tial 50 BOV, JW Racing Cold Air, Razor's Dual Alky, Alum. Rad. Dual Spal Fans, 140 Billet Alt., PTC 9.5, Extreme All Billet Rollerized 2004R, JW Racing Mini-Tub, Custom DS, H&R Sway Bar, H&R Upper/Lower, HR MM, SC&C Upper/Lower, TA Girdle, Eaton Posi, Moser Axles, Adj. Varishocks, Aerospace, AC/Heat, NO CAGE..... Street Car. XFI Tuned By Otto. www.ottosperformance.com ![]() |
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Although they might look similar in appearance when viewed from behind the car, they're quite different in the way they work. The ATR is just a bigger diameter stock replacement bar which bolts in the same place (the lower control arms) as the stock bar, and the H&R is held under the differential housing by two clamps and have two adjustable links that bolt to the car's frame, in front above the differential. The problem with the ATR bar is that it's too stiff for the lower control arms and will eventually do some damage to them, unless you have some good quality aftermarket ones. It will still make some annoying creaking sounds though. I had one for a short period of time and eventually got rid of it. The H&R is a much more refined piece that doesn't do any damage anywhere and is completely silent. BUT...I found out that since I put my H&R bar on, the car leaves the line more level (which is what it's supposed to do) but not as spectacular as it did before...
Hope this helps... Claude.
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1987 Buick llllllGrand Nationalllllll 10.51 e.t. @ 129.53 mph 2002 Ford Thunderbird 2008 Ford F-350 "King Ranch" Crew Cab Dually Pickup 2006 Ford Five Hundred SEL 2001 Saturn SL2 |
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Great info. How do mean tho that it was not as spectacular?
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1987 Turbo T Dark Blue Blackout Astroroof, Don Cruz Built 109, PTE Billet 71 DBB HPS T4, Forged Bottom End, 2xx/2xx Cam, RJC Girdle, TA Headers, DLS Ext. Oiling Sys., Champion GN1R, Champion Rails, PTE 95 Lb. Inj., RJC I-475 FMIC, JW Racing 3.5 DP, XFI, AMS 1000, Co2, Meriere Water Pump, RJC Pulleys, PTE Plenum, Accufab 70 TB, Tial 44 WG, Tial 50 BOV, JW Racing Cold Air, Razor's Dual Alky, Alum. Rad. Dual Spal Fans, 140 Billet Alt., PTC 9.5, Extreme All Billet Rollerized 2004R, JW Racing Mini-Tub, Custom DS, H&R Sway Bar, H&R Upper/Lower, HR MM, SC&C Upper/Lower, TA Girdle, Eaton Posi, Moser Axles, Adj. Varishocks, Aerospace, AC/Heat, NO CAGE..... Street Car. XFI Tuned By Otto. www.ottosperformance.com ![]() |
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I had both. The HR bar is 100000000 times better. I ran the ATR bar without a front sway bar and the car handled horrible. It had body roll like a bus around corners. Plus I could never keep the bolts tight on it either. I put the HR bar on and the car handled better than stock even with the front bar off. The HR bar is expensive but it is worth every penny IMO.
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87 GN T63E, PTE FM, MSD 50's, Atr DP w/ext gate, ATR 2 1/2 duals, 5 disc Vigilante Jimmys trans HR sway bar 10.87@125.01 1.52 60' on Alkycontrol and TT Speed density chip TTA#259 6262S, 50lb inj, RJC boost controller, THDP,MT DRs. 10.80@124.00. 1.53 60' Alky control TT SD chip. PLX SM-AFR WB, Power Logger,Jimmy's trans. 3200 Vigilante 5 disc LU |
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By "spectacular", I meant that the car was twisting more when launching, with one wheel higher that the other and you had to hold the steering wheel tight to make sure that it would keep going straight...
Definitely NOT the ideal setup, but the spectators loved it... ...No more of that with the H&R bar though... The two pictures below show the difference when launching WITH NO H&R bar (pic on the left) and WITH the H&R bar (pic on the right). Both these pictures are at the same track in the same lane too...(Raceway Park Englishtown, NJ.) Claude.
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1987 Buick llllllGrand Nationalllllll 10.51 e.t. @ 129.53 mph 2002 Ford Thunderbird 2008 Ford F-350 "King Ranch" Crew Cab Dually Pickup 2006 Ford Five Hundred SEL 2001 Saturn SL2 Last edited by toofastforyou; April 19th, 2009 at 02:44 PM. |
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Well u guys suk!
Now I think im gonna have to order the H&R bar . That what I was wondering was there a considerable difference between the two and apparently there is.How much does it cost? Like $600 or so? Never had to buy one b4. An ATR bar came with all the cars I have bought.
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1987 Turbo T Dark Blue Blackout Astroroof, Don Cruz Built 109, PTE Billet 71 DBB HPS T4, Forged Bottom End, 2xx/2xx Cam, RJC Girdle, TA Headers, DLS Ext. Oiling Sys., Champion GN1R, Champion Rails, PTE 95 Lb. Inj., RJC I-475 FMIC, JW Racing 3.5 DP, XFI, AMS 1000, Co2, Meriere Water Pump, RJC Pulleys, PTE Plenum, Accufab 70 TB, Tial 44 WG, Tial 50 BOV, JW Racing Cold Air, Razor's Dual Alky, Alum. Rad. Dual Spal Fans, 140 Billet Alt., PTC 9.5, Extreme All Billet Rollerized 2004R, JW Racing Mini-Tub, Custom DS, H&R Sway Bar, H&R Upper/Lower, HR MM, SC&C Upper/Lower, TA Girdle, Eaton Posi, Moser Axles, Adj. Varishocks, Aerospace, AC/Heat, NO CAGE..... Street Car. XFI Tuned By Otto. www.ottosperformance.com ![]() |
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Did you guys notice a better 60'ft ?
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Much Thanks to: Eric Marshal, Grumpy, Russ, Razor, WickedV6, Dr.Boost, RUQUKNF, TurboT990, Kevin B, Bison and a host of others!! 85 T-Top GN(LC2) 109, Iron Heads, Alkycontrol, Stock Suspension, Scanmaster, Stock ECM, and Stock Wheels 1/4 E.T MPH
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Brett the price is 509.00 i think!
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Taylor Moore DSR Member 025 87' Grand National-GT6776RH, FAST XFI, FAST Dash Datalogger, Precision FMIC, Alky Control, THDP, 83lb Injectors, Red's Double Pumper, Volt Booster, Diamond .20 Over Pistons, Eagle Crank, K1 Rods, RJC Girdle, Champion GN1-R Alum Heads, Champion Complete Race Intake, Cottons 212/212 Roller Cam Kit, PTC 9.5" 3400 Non Lock-up, Accufab Regulator, Accufab 70mm Throttle Body, TA Stainless Steel Headers, HR Motor Mounts, Moog Problem Solvers, Brians 2004R... Old Combo-11.88 @ 114.00 1.80 60' No times with new combo yet. New motor built by Geoff @ Jackson Cylinder Head Jackson, Mississippi 601-353-1014 |
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K, Tnx.
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1987 Turbo T Dark Blue Blackout Astroroof, Don Cruz Built 109, PTE Billet 71 DBB HPS T4, Forged Bottom End, 2xx/2xx Cam, RJC Girdle, TA Headers, DLS Ext. Oiling Sys., Champion GN1R, Champion Rails, PTE 95 Lb. Inj., RJC I-475 FMIC, JW Racing 3.5 DP, XFI, AMS 1000, Co2, Meriere Water Pump, RJC Pulleys, PTE Plenum, Accufab 70 TB, Tial 44 WG, Tial 50 BOV, JW Racing Cold Air, Razor's Dual Alky, Alum. Rad. Dual Spal Fans, 140 Billet Alt., PTC 9.5, Extreme All Billet Rollerized 2004R, JW Racing Mini-Tub, Custom DS, H&R Sway Bar, H&R Upper/Lower, HR MM, SC&C Upper/Lower, TA Girdle, Eaton Posi, Moser Axles, Adj. Varishocks, Aerospace, AC/Heat, NO CAGE..... Street Car. XFI Tuned By Otto. www.ottosperformance.com ![]() |
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Worth every penny.
Did you ever see how fast the used HR bars sell? I only see about 1 a year at most anyway. They go for $400+ and sell within hours or less of being listed.
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87 GN T63E, PTE FM, MSD 50's, Atr DP w/ext gate, ATR 2 1/2 duals, 5 disc Vigilante Jimmys trans HR sway bar 10.87@125.01 1.52 60' on Alkycontrol and TT Speed density chip TTA#259 6262S, 50lb inj, RJC boost controller, THDP,MT DRs. 10.80@124.00. 1.53 60' Alky control TT SD chip. PLX SM-AFR WB, Power Logger,Jimmy's trans. 3200 Vigilante 5 disc LU |
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Quote:
Did score some HR upper adj/lower control arms tho
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1987 Turbo T Dark Blue Blackout Astroroof, Don Cruz Built 109, PTE Billet 71 DBB HPS T4, Forged Bottom End, 2xx/2xx Cam, RJC Girdle, TA Headers, DLS Ext. Oiling Sys., Champion GN1R, Champion Rails, PTE 95 Lb. Inj., RJC I-475 FMIC, JW Racing 3.5 DP, XFI, AMS 1000, Co2, Meriere Water Pump, RJC Pulleys, PTE Plenum, Accufab 70 TB, Tial 44 WG, Tial 50 BOV, JW Racing Cold Air, Razor's Dual Alky, Alum. Rad. Dual Spal Fans, 140 Billet Alt., PTC 9.5, Extreme All Billet Rollerized 2004R, JW Racing Mini-Tub, Custom DS, H&R Sway Bar, H&R Upper/Lower, HR MM, SC&C Upper/Lower, TA Girdle, Eaton Posi, Moser Axles, Adj. Varishocks, Aerospace, AC/Heat, NO CAGE..... Street Car. XFI Tuned By Otto. www.ottosperformance.com ![]() |
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Quote:
Paul
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WE4-Original owner street car- 10.71 @ 126 on DOT radial tires, through the exhaust on 93 octane w/ice cold AC - GN1 heads & intake, Garrett GT67 turbo, roller cam, JE pistons, PTE front mount, Double Pumper, Alky, complete stainless exhaust. Backup car: A yellow 70 GSX, Stage 1, 4 speed car. |
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Still running a stocker.
I have thought about one of these Wolfe Race Craft - Detail .
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Doug Martin, aka "D-HAM" Old Reliable, 1987 WE4 "Rat Rod" Best time 10.35@131mph with a stock 58mm TB/Plenum and a PT54 New combo-10.58@131 with SMC Alcohol Tuned by Anderson Performance Maryland MAGNA Representative |
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I REALLY want a HR bar though.
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Collin Hundley 87 GN - 10.76@126 1.60 60' 86 T-type Primered with bench seat OH YEAH!!!!! 11.70@116 with a sucky 60' But the car has gone 7.03@96 in the 1/8th with a 1.47 60' - Parted out |
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The best thing I noticed on the HR bar was the street driving. The car handles night and day better than the ATR bar. Waaay less body roll around corners. The car just feels way more stable. I do not think I got any better 60ft times. But the car feels more stable on launches. I would never go back to an ATR style bar after having the HR bar.
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87 GN T63E, PTE FM, MSD 50's, Atr DP w/ext gate, ATR 2 1/2 duals, 5 disc Vigilante Jimmys trans HR sway bar 10.87@125.01 1.52 60' on Alkycontrol and TT Speed density chip TTA#259 6262S, 50lb inj, RJC boost controller, THDP,MT DRs. 10.80@124.00. 1.53 60' Alky control TT SD chip. PLX SM-AFR WB, Power Logger,Jimmy's trans. 3200 Vigilante 5 disc LU |
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I'm with Collin on this. The weld in bars are probably not the best on the street. I've been high 1.3's with my ATR but I too want a HR bar bad..
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1987 Turbo T ![]() 9.67 @ 142 1.56 60' on slicks 9.71 @ 137 1.46 60' on 275 radials off foot brake |
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If you have good traction and you leave with the same boost/power, then you probably won't get any better 60 foot times. BUT, the HR bar allows you to leave with much more power, and not have to worry about twisting the car up. Claude is right about it though. It is boring to launch now. I leave with the same power I had before, but I no longer have to turn the wheel, and wrestle with the car to keep it straight. You just hold the wheel with one hand, and rest the other on the top of your door, or maybe tune the radio. It goes that straight.
Great pictures too. Shows the whole story.
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Brian The more doors the better. New time: 11.3@123 with the whitewalls(195/75/14). |
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You are right about the H&R being more streetable. But by the time you can really utilize the Wolfe bar, your car has already lost a lot of its street manners. I know what everybody is going to say, " I drive my 10 second GN 5,000 miles to church and pick up groceries with my Mother every Sunday, yada, yada, yada." Believe me when mine is not broken I drive the hell out of it. That's why it has a pair of child seats in the back seat.
But if it is NHRA legal it has the minimum of a roll bar, if not a cage. You have to climb over a bar to get in to both front seats, unless you have swingouts. And you have already lost the back seat because of the crossbar on the main hoop unless you are a 5 year old that thinks it is a jungle gym. More than likely a 10 second Regal has at least front drag shocks, sway bar removed, and skinnys. So even though they are drivable, a lot has been already been sacrificed to go fast. But to each their own. The H&R bar is nice, no doubt about that. But if I was to spend the money for a new bar, it would be a Wolfe. Used on the other hand. I have friends that run the Wolfe style on their Mustangs with no problems.
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Doug Martin, aka "D-HAM" Old Reliable, 1987 WE4 "Rat Rod" Best time 10.35@131mph with a stock 58mm TB/Plenum and a PT54 New combo-10.58@131 with SMC Alcohol Tuned by Anderson Performance Maryland MAGNA Representative |
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Quote:
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1987 Turbo T Dark Blue Blackout Astroroof, Don Cruz Built 109, PTE Billet 71 DBB HPS T4, Forged Bottom End, 2xx/2xx Cam, RJC Girdle, TA Headers, DLS Ext. Oiling Sys., Champion GN1R, Champion Rails, PTE 95 Lb. Inj., RJC I-475 FMIC, JW Racing 3.5 DP, XFI, AMS 1000, Co2, Meriere Water Pump, RJC Pulleys, PTE Plenum, Accufab 70 TB, Tial 44 WG, Tial 50 BOV, JW Racing Cold Air, Razor's Dual Alky, Alum. Rad. Dual Spal Fans, 140 Billet Alt., PTC 9.5, Extreme All Billet Rollerized 2004R, JW Racing Mini-Tub, Custom DS, H&R Sway Bar, H&R Upper/Lower, HR MM, SC&C Upper/Lower, TA Girdle, Eaton Posi, Moser Axles, Adj. Varishocks, Aerospace, AC/Heat, NO CAGE..... Street Car. XFI Tuned By Otto. www.ottosperformance.com ![]() |
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Gnbrett is correct. The Wolf Bar is not street friendly IMO. Make a lot of noise and really clunks when your tires drop into a dip while driving. It does launch the car at the track.
I had been driving with no front sway bar and just the ATR style rear bar. The car was all over the road and I thought my manual steering was way to slow for normal driving. On small radius turns I would be turning the wheel like crazy to keep the car in the lane. I added a BMR Anti Sway Bar and solved all my steering problems. The car handles like a stocker on the street and I can live with the slow manual steering. Apparently when I turned the wheel the body was all over the place and it felt like the wheels weren't turning. I haven't made it to the track yet but so far a big improvement.
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1986 t-regal,stage II,T-76,t-400,v1 intercooler,10.01 134mph on M/T radials 21 lbs boost, 1.47 60 ft--Sold |
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I just took an ATR bar off my car this weekend and replaced it with a stock bar.
The ATR bar was put on with spacers/washers/etc... and creaked, crunched,squeaked,rattled,etc... The car sounded like a horse & buggy every time I pulled into my driveway. Since putting the factory bar back on, the car is comfortable and quiet now... without a single squeak or rattle. I think if I put something different on again, it will be the HR style bar that uses end links and mounts via U-bolts on the axle tubes. That said... Has anyone tried adapting an F-body rear bar to a G-body ? The F-body bar mounts and works identical to the HR bar...
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'87 GN... RJC girdled 109, +.020 Diamond pistons, K1 rods, Cat crank, RJC alum pulleys, T/A heads, Champion intake,plenum and fuel rails, 1.55 TA rockers, 70mm Accufab, 214/214-.548/.548 Comp hyd roller, Comp 26120 beehives, 70GTQ, 83lb injectors, A1000 pump, MagnaFuel regulator, 15gal aluminum cell, Razors Alky kit, NOS 100hp nitrous system, GN1 FMIC, LS1 MAF & translator, TurboTweak 6.0 chip, Powerlogger, LM-1 Wideband O2, 3" THDP, ATR Pitbull exhaust, TH400 w/brake, 9.5" PTC, Dynotech 3.5" alum driveshaft.
Last edited by yullose; April 20th, 2009 at 03:58 PM. |
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Quote:
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Collin Hundley 87 GN - 10.76@126 1.60 60' 86 T-type Primered with bench seat OH YEAH!!!!! 11.70@116 with a sucky 60' But the car has gone 7.03@96 in the 1/8th with a 1.47 60' - Parted out |
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Thanks Paul for the nice comments!
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even when new, creating some rattle, but since I did that, I never had to touch it again!Claude.
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1987 Buick llllllGrand Nationalllllll 10.51 e.t. @ 129.53 mph 2002 Ford Thunderbird 2008 Ford F-350 "King Ranch" Crew Cab Dually Pickup 2006 Ford Five Hundred SEL 2001 Saturn SL2 |
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I have the Wolfe bar in mine and love it on the street. No rattles, sqweeks or hard banging. I don't even notice its there. Even have full 3" tail pipes on the car as well, not dumps. At the track she hooks consistant 1.3's
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Mike Ricketts ![]() DLS ENGINE DEVELOPMENT 886 E 900N, Wheatfeild, IN, 46392 219-956-3653 HARTLINE PERFORMANCE 321-722-1563 My Track passes http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKEIyppgOr0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SqbYtfQn8c |
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HR bar changes the whole driving experience. WAAAY Better
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"They work between breakdowns" ME USAF Power Pro/Aircraft Arresting Systems 87GN- GT3255E, Turbosaver, Razors Alky, ESP FMIC, Blitz SSBOV, 3" THDP, TA Headers, 3" ATR Crossflow, Ext G, Gen2, LT1 MAF, 38's, PPC 2.6K L/U, EA stg 2 trans, QA1 ft & rear, UMI rear Ups(adj) & Lows, HR Bar, Moser axles, Eaton. Manual windows, seats, and locks. Custom tweed interior 03' G35 Coupe 5At, Blk on Blk, Leather, 18's, Prem pkg, Bose, JDM clears....wifes car Sick of the 2-3 flare/slide shift??? Need your trans done right? Look no further. Call Lonnie. He has it nailed. http://www.extremeautomatics.com/home.html |
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MalibuRacing.com Message Boards • View topic - So I built my own sway/antiroll bar* NEW PICS ADDED 3/12 |
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I take it that there is only 1 type of HR bar.?.
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BLK 87 GN 98% Street Driven: Stage 1 250ci block..(5/29/09) 60'ft 1.95, 1/8mi 7.48@98.97, 1/4mi 11.48@125 (17lbs boost/507 rwhp) All stock suspension ... Full description & pics: www.cardomain.com/ride/2308509 |
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x2 on this!
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Bill 1987 Buick Grand National CPT62, 212/206 billet roller, ported irons, Seimans 72#, RA Double Pumper, 65MM TB, RJC power plate and pulleys, ATR headers, ATR single shot, ATR DP, Pats 3200 L/U, AlkyControl, HR rear bar, and more... |
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Anyone have any pics of the H&R bar mounted up? I currently run the ATR bar and love it. Huge improvment over the stock bar and mine doesn't rattle at all, but I'm not saying they don't in general. Anyone else agree with the ATR bar doing damage to the control arms like previously stated?
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TIA: Gary Wells / "TOLTK" '09 Cad CTS-V, 30 miles so far '87 Buick Turbo Regal, 26K miles '02 Quicksilver Z06 Vette, 81K miles '98 Honda CBR1100XX, 1.2K miles Garage prostitutes, to the max |
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I put a ATR-replica swaybar on my car back in February. Along with dual airbags. Also have boxed stock LCAs with rubber bushings in them. Best 60' to date is a 1.571 on a 255/50/16 MT DRs (10.5") on a virtually unprepped track, with a somewhat soft launch. My car leaves straight as well. Cant beat it for $159...
Nothing against the H&R bar at all, just too rich for my blood right now.
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Scott Jackson aka "ScoJack" MAGNA Member & Methanol Dealer... '86 GN... Full weight street car New combo: Limit TE-62 w/ .63A/R PTE housing, Dutt neck stock IC, ProTorque billet 3200-3400 9.5" L/U, Razor's single nozzle PAC, MSD50s, PLX SM-AFR W/B, 3" THDP, 2.5" Hooker catback, and all the other stuff... 11.585@114.60 w/ 1.63 60' @ E-Town 11.480@115.99 w. 1.57 60' @ Cecil County |
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Keeping my eye on this for now.
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Just a another twisted Moderator. Wanna know how well your President is doing. I GOT LAID OFF TODAY!!! 7/10/09 Working again now and lost $4160 a year. Thanks OBOMBOUT! My new project. http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/sho...ml#post2230675 See where it leads. ![]() How to build a B4Black turbo? Take a look. http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/bef...ted-equal.html |
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