Need boost help....

[Freddie's Buick]

I just installed my boost gauge and I get a steady 20Hg idle but the closest I get to boost is '0'. I am clueless when it comes to the WG adjustment so I'm thinking that's the problem. Turbo spins freely, no problem there. After removing four broken vacuum caps, (installed in April and now useless...Chinese POS!!). I resorted to good old fashion bolt onto an old vac line. Looks butchered but I never had one fail...Lol .

Cars been sitting a few months now and rust, dust and fading accumulated in the engine bay. Nothing irreversible though. Come Spring I'll deal with it. The temperatures here are fantastic for cruising. Dry upper 60's at night. Dry upper 70's during the day. Please excuse the rusty faded look.

Anyway, what is the default position of the wastegate valve when the vehicle is off...closed or open? Hell if I know what type it is...this turbo stuff is still new to me. She runs like a top either way. Just not boosting. Got to get that right before I start on the spray kit.

[charlief1]

It should be nomally closed Freddie. Unless you have the bastard child. If that's the case it should be open and closed with turbo boost. I think it's the 81 design.

[Freddie's Buick]

I guess I will only know if I tear into it. I don't feel like I want to start removing the WG anytime soon so I'll post an update when I get around to it. If it is the 'BASTARD CHILD' ...do you have a spare legit child you'd like to unload?

[charlief1]

I've got two of the oddballs ond only one of the better design Freddie. Check with Aj. I'm sure he's got a few laying around that he's not using.

[Freddie's Buick]

A.J......mission control to A.J.....you out there??

[WarWagon]

Looking at your pictures, I'm going with it's safe to say that the wastegate is closed. The swing valve is close to the actuator which tells me it's in the closed postion. Is that a one or two port actuator? I made a mistake of putting boost pressure to the wrong side of the two port actuator and had nearly the same problem your having.

[dr_frankenstein]

huh.......................... im awake!


ok, just by the looks of your acuator... im gonna take a shot in the darn and maybe say the diaphram is torn or the rod seized.

I will hit the parts shed.

if I got what you need, its yours.

PM me an addy!

A.j.

[Freddie's Buick]

Originally Posted by WarWagon

....Is that a one or two port actuator? I made a mistake of putting boost pressure to the wrong side of the two port actuator and had nearly the same problem your having.

It's a two port actuator. Took a few pics for better identification. The last one of the engine is for Charlie. We all know how he loves pics....

[Freddie's Buick]

Originally Posted by dr_frankenstein

....ok, just by the looks of your acuator... Im gonna take a shot in the dark and maybe say the diaphragm is torn or the rod seized. I will hit the parts shed. If I got what you need, its yours. PM me an addy! A.j.

Not sure what an addy means but sounds good to me. Is there a way I can make sure that it's bad via a Mityvac, (I have), compressor, (I have too).
Don't rush too quick. I don't know if I have time to check since I'm leaving to N.C. Wednesday and I'm really tied up enough so's I can't fiddle with the car. My time expired Saturday. Now the wife's got me booked, (arrghh).

There'll probably be a couple of weeks before I get dirty again.

[charlief1]

Looks like the normally closed one Freddie. I do notice that you're missing the plenum support bracket on the drivers side.

Aj ment Address. lol

[Freddie's Buick]

Originally Posted by charlief1

.....I do notice that you're missing the plenum support bracket on the drivers side....

What a keen eye...LoL. I have it. I just think it's better with it off. With it on, makes plug removal a headache. Anyway so 'normally closed' WG what do you mean by that? Is it the bastard??

[charlief1]

The normally closed one is the best one Freddie. It stays closed to build boost instead of the other one that takes much more time to build boost.

[jimski]

looks nice

[jimski]

besides not getting boost how do u fill here with oil?

Check exhaust port in back of the turbo right on the intake manifold for exhaust leaks cap it off.Also there is a bolt hole in front of the carb on the intake that sucks air if a bolt is not in it.

Get a can of carb cleaner and spray around places like hoses and gaskets to see if idle changes when sprayed, if idle changes it is leaking. Take the down pipe off and run it to see if boost acheived,check egr valve to see if closed, i just cover it off.

Cap off waste gate hoses and see if it will boost. Also very important u need that bracket from the plenum to the exhaust manifold in place.If u hit a large pot hole the passenger side A frame will touch the down pipe forcing the plenum up on the passenger side resulting in an instant break of the plenum connecting to the intake manifold.

There are just so many reasons why it will not build boost,been there and done that with mine. finally it is running nice. Looks real good thou. Hope the things i mentioned help you out.

Oh anoter thing is make sure choke is opening up and letting the four barrel open if choke is not opening up and stepping down the fast idle the little lever just under the choke on the carb will not let the 4 barrel open. it is like a little lever lock for the back butterflies, To test push down the fast idle levers with youre finger if they spring back up when the car is warm the choke is not opening up,also while pressing down on the fast idle levers see if the little lever lock is dropping down just under the choke there thus realesing the back botton butterflies.On these cars having the four barrel open is one of the main reasons car will not build 9 psi

[charlief1]

Thanks for jumping in Jim. You have been hiding out to long. You need to come visit a little more often please.

[Freddie's Buick]

Originally Posted by jimski

.....besides not getting boost how do u fill here with oil?

I made a custom filler tube. Works great and no problem filling her up.
As for the other stuff it would make a great sticky for those of us that take the plunge.

I have no leaks. But I did find that the actuator to plenum port does not hold vacuum. So I capped it, (I think Rich once mentioned that it isn't necessary anyway and often leaks). The Compressor side of the actuator does work though.

No carb issues. My secondaries open very crisply and runs like new. And as for the bracket, the accelerator assembly is also a bracket that attaches to the exhaust manifold. As you can see, it's bolted on fairly well.

The turbo/plenum attaches to various places on the intake and exhaust with a total of three brackets topping off with the plenum bolted to the intake with three bolts, (that's the weak spot). I used all except the drivers side bracket, (reasoning that that accelerator bracket is sufficient).

Anyway thanks for looking out. It's nice to see you back again. By the way how did you do with the A/C brackets?

[charlief1]

Got any better pics of the filler Freddie. I'd like to see how you did it myself.

[Freddie's Buick]

Kinda hard to reach the camera in there. I''l give it a shot and update. For the meantime here's the scoop:

As you can see those are the later aluminum valve covers from the 90's off of the FI N/A cars. The oil filler side has a PVC grommet opening that is 1/2 in diameter.

I got this idea from once were I was replacing the thermostat on a 3.8 engine on a Pontiac. Who ever previously owned the car made a repair on the housing's water pump hose with CPVC elbows and CPVC pipe cutouts. Not only did it look good, it had been there for some time and worked like a charm.

Anyway realizing that CPVC has a heat range of up to 210 degrees and is used for hot water heaters here in Florida, I thought that that would be an excellent candidate for a custom 'L' shaped filler tube. After putting it together I painted it black with high heat caliper paint and installed it into the grommet.

It fit tight into the grommet and I made an internal CPVC ring from a CPVC elbow joint and glued it onto the pipe. There is no way in hell thats coming out until the grommet rots out. I capped it with a chrome oil filler cap that fitted into the CPVC pipe after some sanding with a Dremel drum.

That was two years ago. Still looks good and works very well with no leakage or hitting of the firewall, (I made it so there is plenty of room).
My biggest fear was the heat range. But my engine has reached 212 in the previous summer with the A/C blasting and the filler showed no issues or softening .

[charlief1]

We think alike Freddie. I've got a set of them here myself and was thinking about diong something simular. Thanks for the input on how to do it.

[jimski]

Originally Posted by Freddie's Buick

I made a custom filler tube. Works great and no problem filling her up.
As for the other stuff it would make a great sticky for those of us that take the plunge.

I have no leaks. But I did find that the actuator to plenum port does not hold vacuum. So I capped it, (I think Rich once mentioned that it isn't necessary anyway and often leaks). The Compressor side of the actuator does work though.

No carb issues. My secondaries open very crisply and runs like new. And as for the bracket, the accelerator assembly is also a bracket that attaches to the exhaust manifold. As you can see, it's bolted on fairly well.

The turbo/plenum attaches to various places on the intake and exhaust with a total of three brackets topping off with the plenum bolted to the intake with three bolts, (that's the weak spot). I used all except the drivers side bracket, (reasoning that that accelerator bracket is sufficient).

Anyway thanks for looking out. It's nice to see you back again. By the way how did you do with the A/C brackets?

I made the a/c brackets out of steel they fit perfect.Also found some original ones from a member on the site.

[jimski]

It is proven thou if secondaries dont open, no boost at all.The quadrajet is funny like that thou, the top butterflies will open when u dump it,but bottom butterflies will not open all the way, weird shi t. Is this a hybrid? if so cut some black sheathing of the throttle cable to get the cable to pull more.

[Freddie's Buick]

Most Q-jets are flawed that way. I've seen several and most fail to open the secondaries. You gotta study the design. The fixes are of medium difficulty and must be done right, (no room for errors).

Since it's a mechanical aparatus thats dependant on several other actions before they open, chances are that one of the other actions will fail and you'll get no secondary operation.

1) WOT
2) Load/'0' Hg
3) Choke pull-off releases secondary linkage
4) Upper secondary butterflies open
5) POE tubes discharge fuel
6) Warp drive....hold on to your underwear!

So you see, they all have to work in sync before the secondaries kick in.
I use a simple test were I pull back on the rear throttle linkage on the drivers's side of the Q-jet rather than the primary throttle linkage.

The howl scares the bejeezes out of me, (feels like the engine is going to fly off of the motor mounts). You can see the secondaries pop open and the fuel mist out of the rear discharge holes. Release the throttle and the secondary butterflies snaps shut.

If you pass this test, all of the other actions are working well and your Q-jet is up to par.

[charlief1]

There's a slightly easier way to do it Freddie. Goose the throttle three times in a row. Slightly on the first two and go WOT on the third. The secondaries should open at this point and the top butterflies will open enough to see some fuel come out.

[Freddie's Buick]

Originally Posted by charlief1

There's a slightly easier way to do it Freddie. Goose the throttle three times in a row. Slightly on the first two and go WOT on the third....

Nope....my way or the highway! LOL!!

Heck no goosing needed here. One shot your good to GO!

[b4black]

I didn't get a chance to read the enitre threads, so maybe this has already been said...


I looks like you WG is open in the pictures. Even with a blown WG diaphragm, it shoud be closed. Try shortening the rod at least 3/4". Or take it off and use something to hold the WG closed for testing. (I use a ~6" turnbuckle). Just ease into the throttle and you won't overboost.

You should be able to get 6 psi of boost without opening the carb's secondaries. Both my cars started out like that. Remember that some 1978 Turbo V6's came as 2bbls.