TAI Class for 2008 BG Nationals

[Grumpy]

ok one other thought they do in TSM... Maybe just keep the "talk" from people who are goin to BG to race in the class .. might make things easier I dunno

[Russ Merritt]

Originally Posted by JCotton

It appears most of the posters here already have 66 and bigger turbos.... with that said, it would also appear we all want our combinations to be the guidelines.......that doesn't work. You have to ask yourself what kind of participation have you had in the past and if it was low.... WHY? Heads up is a blast, but heads up can also limit the cars that will participate. What 11.50 car is going to want to run a low 10 or 9 second car, for that matter, what 10.9,8 or7 second car would want to spot 7 10ths or more. If the goal is to build the class, you must take these facts into consideration.

1. Running a bracket class allows all of them to run, running heads up will eliminate particpation. Now that is fine when you are the faSTEST CAR to date.

Runnin heads up will eliminate cars/drivers not capable of racing. In my opinion, quality cars are much better than quantity for the class. I know last year there were 3 cars and 1 missed the call. The year someone was actually running the class we had a bunch more, 11 I think was in 05. After all the alky cars that have been built by you, me and everyone else, I can't see the count not going up. Are you going to race the pumpkin in this class now? If not, your input would be better trying to get brackets into TSO........ Goodluck!

This will be for money! I myself will donate to the cause and I know Otto knows how to drum up money. Are you putting up $ for this class now that you've built a bunch of these alky cars? There will be good $ for the winner/runner up if this is set up for real heads up racing.

Any computer goes as far as I'm concered.

Any intercooler goes too in my opinion. Doesn't matter.





.

[scot w.]

Originally Posted by Grumpy

.. I just feel if ya limit the turbo to keep it a "street class" ..

The problem here is WHO's TO SAY WHAT TURBO IS FOR THE STREET? Just because of the turbo I have and drive more on the street than you I'm not going to be able to run in a street car class? That is Bullsh*t! I plan on attending this year just like I have all the years before but from all the years of going it always seems like everyone whines about something. Like Your doing about a turbo and TSM. Just because it's the turbo used in TSM don't mean that my car could even come close to competing with the other car with $5,000 titanium rods and all the stage two stuff don't forget that most TSM cars have stage motors...

Whatever! If the rules end up limiting the class to a 67mm turbo, Good luck! I'm not going to spend the extra money just to run your class.....

[JCotton]

Originally Posted by Russ Merritt

Runnin heads up will eliminate cars/drivers not capable of racing. In my opinion, quality cars are much better than quantity for the class. I know last year there were 3 cars and 1 missed the call. The year someone was actually running the class we had a bunch more, 11 I think was in 05. After all the alky cars that have been built by you, me and everyone else, I can't see the count not going up. Are you going to race the pumpkin in this class now? If not, your input would be better trying to get brackets into TSO........ Goodluck!

This will be for money! I myself will donate to the cause and I know Otto knows how to drum up money. Are you putting up $ for this class now that you've built a bunch of these alky cars? There will be good $ for the winner/runner up if this is set up for real heads up racing.

Any computer goes as far as I'm concered.

Any intercooler goes too in my opinion. Doesn't matter.
.

First off, get off the TSO kick, has nothing to do with this thread. Secondly, you talk like you are the big time heads up racer, continually putting down your average Buick racer\like they don't count or can't race, maybe you can share your vast experience with us. Russ, don't try to turn this into a pissing contest, it's a rules discussion.. This class is not around you, me, dan or anyone else, unless I am missing something here... share your suggestions and get off the personal garbage. As for Sponsorship, don't talk to me about sponsorship.......... I've sponsored more classes, put up more money, gave back more to my customers and the general Buick community than you will ever do....... don't even try to twist this thread up into a pissing contest and attempt to put me on the hot seat while trying to sit on the throne with statements of self promotion by bringing in sponsorship.

Your statements here are way off base and an embarressment in this thread. Stick to the rules and all will go well.

[Russ Merritt]

Originally Posted by JCotton

It appears most of the posters here already have 66 and bigger turbos.... with that said, it would also appear we all want our combinations to be the guidelines.......that doesn't work. You have to ask yourself what kind of participation have you had in the past and if it was low.... WHY? Heads up is a blast, but heads up can also limit the cars that will participate. What 11.50 car is going to want to run a low 10 or 9 second car, for that matter, what 10.9,8 or7 second car would want to spot 7 10ths or more. If the goal is to build the class, you must take these facts into consideration.

1. Running a bracket class allows all of them to run, running heads up will eliminate particpation. Now that is fine when you are the faSTEST CAR to date.

2. Running 2 classes, heads up and brackett allows for the big boys to have their shot at glory and also allows for the lower budget cars to have their shot at bragging rights. Lets face it, we aren't in this for the money, if it's really about the fun and sport of it, then lets not talk out the side of our mouths. If this about ALCHY cars why eliminate the majority. Either form 2 classes or just run a bracket.

3. Either way, the rules are best to be configuered loosely and as minimal as possible. I'll address the engine management first, many cars have been stepping up to aftermarket engine management, be it translator, mafless, maxeffort, FAST, too many to list. They all allow for adjustability, period. There really is no such thing as a stock computor anymore. A stock computor is just that, burn a chip and you have what you have, it's a battle of the chip burners, those days are gone, all the chips are adjustable these days, cutting out FAST or any other adjustable set up just isn't realistic anymore.

4. Intercoolers, again, technology has run rampant, what differance does it make whether we use a front mount or a stock location, visually you have to strain to see which one is being used. There is no performance gain at this level when alchy is the real cooling additive to the air charge. Why would we want to make this a stock location IC class, many, many street cars have been using front mounts for years, I sell 4 to 1 front mounts over stock locations...

5. weights and turbo size aren't an issue if the class is a bracket class. As tires and many other possible arguing points become senseless.


Lastly, I'm beat, thats enough from me, for tonite..... tomorrows another day.

Not a pissin contest Jacko, If your not racin in TAI, what the hell are you doing here???? We def don't need you to figure this out. Stickin your 2 cents in where it don't belong is what I see.......

I know you've sponsered lots in the past. Hats off to you, that's great! I'm gonna start doing it too if we're gonna race heads up. Nothin but good coming from this.

[JCotton]

Originally Posted by Russ Merritt

Not a pissin contest Jacko, If your not racin in TAI, what the hell are you doing here???? We def don't need you to figure this out. Stickin your 2 cents in where it don't belong is what I see.......

I know you've sponsered lots in the past. Hats off to you, that's great! I'm gonna start doing it too if we're gonna race heads up. Nothin but good coming from this.

Ahhhhhh helllloo RussO.......... try waking up and smelling the roses, step away from the mirror...... anything to get off your narrow, one directional thinking here. I'm not posting in this thread to run TSO.......... maybe you can figure it out now..... I'm here to discuss class rules that I will be participating in..... is that clear enough for you.....

As for turbo rules, if we are looking to have an upper "tier" anything should go, lots of 70P trim turbos on street cars..... no reason to limit this to a 67 limit. Maybe we run qualifying for all, take the top 8 cars and put them into a Quick 8, heads up class, the rest can run a Brackett with a pro tree.... rules can be loose and bickering can end right here... right now..

[Russ Merritt]

Originally Posted by JCotton

Ahhhhhh helllloo RussO.......... try waking up and smelling the roses, step away from the mirror...... anything to get off your narrow, one directional thinking here. I'm not posting in this thread to run TSO.......... maybe you can figure it out now..... I'm here to discuss class rules that I will be participating in..... is that clear enough for you.....

As for turbo rules, if we are looking to have an upper "tier" anything should go, lots of 70P trim turbos on street cars..... no reason to limit this to a 67 limit. Maybe we run qualifying for all, take the top 8 cars and put them into a Quick 8, heads up class, the rest can run a Brackett with a pro tree.... rules can be loose and bickering can end right here... right now..

Yea, sure you are.....

Wide awake and workin hard Cotton balls....... Probably why I missed your racing in this class now...... I'll be pretty surprised you show up in BG with a TAI car instead of TSO.......

Whatever the largest legal turbo is is what I'll run.

[scot w.]

Originally Posted by JCotton

Ahhhhhh helllloo RussO.......... try waking up and smelling the roses, step away from the mirror...... anything to get off your narrow, one directional thinking here. I'm not posting in this thread to run TSO.......... maybe you can figure it out now..... I'm here to discuss class rules that I will be participating in..... is that clear enough for you.....

As for turbo rules, if we are looking to have an upper "tier" anything should go, lots of 70P trim turbos on street cars..... no reason to limit this to a 67 limit. Maybe we run qualifying for all, take the top 8 cars and put them into a Quick 8, heads up class, the rest can run a Brackett with a pro tree.... rules can be loose and bickering can end right here... right now..

Jack that has been the best idea so far!! a fine example of making things work for all the others and not just putting them out!... Good Idea!

[scot w.]

Originally Posted by Russ Merritt

Yea, sure you are.....

Wide awake and workin hard Cotton balls....... Probably why I missed your racing in this class now...... I'll be pretty surprised you show up in BG with a TAI car instead of TSO.......

Whatever the largest legal turbo is is what I'll run.

Russ there NEVER was a "largest legal turbo limit" so I have no idea where this limit talk is coming from. to this date there still is NO LIMIT. I went back and looked at all the rules for the past years. let me know if i'm missing something here.

[Quiky One]

Originally Posted by Grumpy

well snow is moving in here tomorrow so the winter "blue's" are goin to follow I am not basing rules around our car .. Fast system's, front mounts who cares .. I just feel if ya limit the turbo to keep it a "street class" .. Ya want to go faster go to TSM or TSO trying to keep things simple.. maybe it just won't be as simple as that As far as seeing the limit of methonal look at Richie's white T !!! 9.5s @ 140++++ Is that the limit ??? I don't think so but I am not goin to find out either... Street cars rule well Ill sit back and let you guys hammer it out

Richie doesn't run 93 octane either. He might be able to run that number on 93 but he hasn't. And as you know coulda should woulda right??

[DonWG]

I hope I'm not going to disturb things by adding an idea to this discussion. It's good to see a class of this type showcasing resently re-discovered old technology. It is way overdue. I just don't think it goes far enough to push the threshold to advance the boundaries of our cars (Buicks).

I'd like to see a class that in some way promotes the development of new systems. Rules could be setup to limit max engine size and head configuration and maybe even turbo size, but everything else goes. Manifold designs, fueling stradegies, fuel type(s), muliple power adders, etc. In particular nitrous and turbocharging. It is 'the most' perfect marriage and it's treated like an illegal alien. This is the alcohol, nitrous, and propane section isn't it?

So many other cars of interest are leaving us in the dust when it comes to the application of other technologies that have been right at our fingertips the whole time. These are not new ideas gentlemen. They are superior designs and I'd love to see them applied to our car of interest, the turbocharged V6 Buick Regals.

If I want to see new technologies in the field of turbocharging, I'd much rather go to a Buick racing meet than have to go to a Toyota Supra meet.

Even if the class was setup as an exibition class only. We need to bring new, creative and advanced ideas to the forefront. Buicks need to be leading the charge, not Supras.

Don't put limits on thinking.

[Grumpy]

Originally Posted by scot w.

Just because of the turbo I have and drive more on the street than you I'm not going to be able to run in a street car class? That is Bullsh*t!


ya ok .... you da man



Whatever! If the rules end up limiting the class to a 67mm turbo, Good luck! I'm not going to spend the extra money just to run your class.....

ok c ya later

hmmmm I guess Ted and Avon have guy's scratching their heads
so Jack are you saying to have TSO rules and just add the Alky ???? in the car!!! NOT drinking it

[scot w.]

Originally Posted by Grumpy

ok c ya later

hmmmm I guess Ted and Avon have guy's scratching their heads
so Jack are you saying to have TSO rules and just add the Alky ???? in the car!!! NOT drinking it

Your quite the comedian there Grumpy!

as far as your: ok c ya later remark.

I'll be gone WHEN there is a LIMIT ON TURBO! but as of now THERE IS NONE! so i'm not gone yet!!!

[JCotton]

Originally Posted by Grumpy

ok c ya later

hmmmm I guess Ted and Avon have guy's scratching their heads
so Jack are you saying to have TSO rules and just add the Alky ???? in the car!!! NOT drinking it

Ok, then put the pipe down..... more BS from someone that wants his car to be the poster child for the Alchy class.... I have lots of ideas to allow for a fair playing field for all and I repeat.... FOR ALL..... lets have a class that everyone can come and show their hard work off in. You've already gone out and set the bars along with John Crawford, how bout we all have that opportunity to build our cars as we see fit.. there's more than one way to skin a cat....

Oh ya.... and like your builder/tuner..... get off the TSO kick, got nothing to do with this thread.....

[Grumpy]

Originally Posted by scot w.

Oh ya.... and like your builder/tuner..... get off the TSO kick, got nothing to with this thread.....

well can ya tell us if your goin to run YOUR TSO car in the Alky class???? guess I have to dig out more parts oh Jack ...it's ALKY class